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      10-08-2020, 08:58 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick955 View Post
I saw that C&D M440i review and for whatever reason, they pulled it down. It was showing a 3.5 sec 0-60 time... with the 382 HP 3.0 six engine. The December review of the M340i showed 3.8 seconds and 1/4 mi at 12.3. That's concerning when you take a 440 and it's faster than the times being shown for the G8x in either regular or Comp versions! It shouldn't even be a contest between the two. So I'll be really curious to see some true testing with these new M's because if those 3.5 second times for the M440 are true, that's faster than BMW's claimed times for these G8x's! Even if the actual test times prove to be mid-3 seconds, the gain in performance is next to nothing over these "M" versions of the 3 and 4 series... pathetic.
Would you be equally upset to know the i3 will smoke just about anything in the lineup from 0-30?

C&D's review was on an xDrive car, it looks like the review was taken down, but comments show they were talking 3.8s with a 1 ft rollout so add in 0.3 to compensate and you're at 4.1. Regardless, wait for the AWD/m-xDrive versions come out for a meaningless 0-60 comparison that's more fair, traction is a huge part of any 0-60 figure.

Also, once you're talking mid-threes and lower, don't expect huge gaps, a tenth of a second is huge down there. So if you're saying an M440i xDrive realistically did 3.5 somewhere, I'd expect you'll see the M4 M-xDrive to do it in maybe 3.2, which would be a fairly gigantic difference.
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      10-08-2020, 09:10 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Again: RWD vs AWD

The folks that buy the RWD versions of the G8X are not after 0-60mph times.
Yeah, of course. But still, shouldn't be a contest.
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      10-08-2020, 09:21 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Rick955 View Post
Yeah, of course. But still, shouldn't be a contest.
Look at the 60-130mph times, and it won't be a contest .

Truth be told, the RWD M3/4C will most likely also be quicker in the 60-130mph than the M3/4 MxDrive .
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      10-08-2020, 10:43 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Look at the 60-130mph times, and it won't be a contest .

Truth be told, the RWD M3/4C will most likely also be quicker in the 60-130mph than the M3/4 MxDrive .
Always more important to show highway dominance than stop light dominance, at least for those less concerned with cornering and braking.
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      10-08-2020, 11:30 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by unfoundnemo View Post
Always more important to show highway dominance than stop light dominance, at least for those less concerned with cornering and braking.
I'd say all of the above . Track driving is a very important factor for me, since my car is also my hobby. So "60-130mph" acceleration, cornering and braking is what really matters to me . I could not care less about 0-60mph.
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      10-08-2020, 02:48 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I'd say all of the above . Track driving is a very important factor for me, since my car is also my hobby. So "60-130mph" acceleration, cornering and braking is what really matters to me . I could not care less about 0-60mph.
I get what you are all saying. I guess I'm just getting tired of BMW diminishing the "M" line. Remember some years back when everyone was grabbing M badges on eBay and sticking them next to their normal badges? No need to do that anymore... BMW does it for you now! Everything has an M variant. I know it's all about sales and shareholders. I'm glad they at least made the new G8x's LOOK unique... at least for now. But you watch, a few years from now if the sales are hot, they will put an M appearance package on the 3 and 4 series to give it the M3/M4 "look" to pad their sales. Engine performance has already gone that route where it used to be a more significant difference, and now it's approaching that of the actual M cars... the X3M, M440, M550i, etc. This is what you read now... "The M550i gains 67 horsepower and 73 lb-ft of torque, making this 523-hp sedan an even more appealing alternative to the more expensive M5 sport sedan."

I am definitely going with the new M3. Going with a color not offered on the 3 or 4 series, and gonna love it and enjoy the uniqueness while I can!

Anyway, the thread says "Why is BMW M going in a new direction?".
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Last edited by Rick955; 10-08-2020 at 03:20 PM.. Reason: Correct AMG
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      10-08-2020, 03:07 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick955 View Post
I get what you are all saying. I guess I'm just getting tired of BMW diminishing the "M" line. Remember some years back when everyone was grabbing M badges on eBay and sticking them next to their normal badges? No need to do that anymore... BMW does it for you now! Everything has an M variant. Unlike AMG which doesn't bastardize that line, BMW has just overdone it. I know it's all about sales and shareholders. I'm glad they at least made the new G8x's LOOK unique... at least for now. But you watch, a few years from now if the sales are hot, they will put an M appearance package on the 3 and 4 series to give it the M3/M4 "look" to pad their sales. Engine performance has already gone that route where it used to be a more significant difference, and now it's approaching that of the actual M cars... the X3M, M440, M550i, etc. This is what you read now... "The M550i gains 67 horsepower and 73 lb-ft of torque, making this 523-hp sedan an even more appealing alternative to the more expensive M5 sport sedan."

I am definitely going with the new M3. Going with a color not offered on the 3 or 4 series, and gonna love it and enjoy the uniqueness while I can!

Anyway, the thread says "Why is BMW M going in a new direction?".

I don't understand this complaint at all. The M branding on the M340i is no different than the AMG branding on the C 43 AMG. I would even argue that this is even less ambiguous than AMG's branding since it is still quite clear in BMW's case that the M340i is not an M3.

As for performance, there is way more to performance than just HP and torque. A M5 is still vastly different than an M550i regardless of their power figures.
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      10-08-2020, 03:20 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by super51fan View Post
I don't understand this complaint at all. The M branding on the M340i is no different than the AMG branding on the C 43 AMG. I would even argue that this is even less ambiguous than AMG's branding since it is still quite clear in BMW's case that the M340i is not an M3.

As for performance, there is way more to performance than just HP and torque. A M5 is still vastly different than an M550i regardless of their power figures.
You're right. I stand corrected. never really cared for the Mercedes. I guess they're all doing it. Just seems like BMW has taken it to another level.
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      10-13-2020, 03:12 PM   #75
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That being said, there's also a cognitive dissonance here between people complaining that the M-performance models have too close 0-60 times/performance to the real M model, and people complaining that the M-performance model has been given the holy letter M that it shouldn't deserve...
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      10-13-2020, 04:18 PM   #76
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You...The enthusiast customer demanded more individuality to your choice of M car.
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      10-25-2020, 12:14 PM   #77
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      10-25-2020, 02:57 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
You...The enthusiast customer demanded more individuality to your choice of M car.
Nope, that's where you got it wrong. It's the hipster crowd that wants more "individuality". The driving enthusiast, want just that: driving enthusiasm. Clearly, as proven by the launch ads, the new M3/4 are aimed at the former. However, I would have gladly taken "individuality" over the competition in the form technical differentiation like DCT and light weight for example.
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Last edited by CanAutM3; 10-25-2020 at 03:38 PM..
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      10-25-2020, 03:38 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
You...The enthusiast customer demanded more individuality to your choice of M car.
The g80 is junk ... not a real M. Elephant size with floating brake calipers and the same drivetrain as x3m-bs!! Huge wheels, nasty design, overweight and that's what bmw puts out as their M offering. I can imagine what steering is going to feel like ... or not. How can you track it with bs rear floater? Yeah gl with that!!
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      10-25-2020, 04:09 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Smooth 330i View Post
The g80 is junk ... not a real M. Elephant size with floating brake calipers and the same drivetrain as x3m-bs!! Huge wheels, nasty design, overweight and that's what bmw puts out as their M offering. I can imagine what steering is going to feel like ... or not. How can you track it with bs rear floater? Yeah gl with that!!
You act as if its going to be slower than the entry level car on the Nring.

if you think its overweight and will have nasty steering, i think you'll be upset to hear that it has a much better power to weight ratio than and will handle damn better than a 330i.

It'll do better than our B48s thats for damn sure.
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      10-25-2020, 06:27 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth 330i View Post
The g80 is junk ... not a real M. Elephant size with floating brake calipers and the same drivetrain as x3m-bs!! Huge wheels, nasty design, overweight and that's what bmw puts out as their M offering. I can imagine what steering is going to feel like ... or not. How can you track it with bs rear floater? Yeah gl with that!!
You act as if its going to be slower than the entry level car on the Nring.

if you think its overweight and will have nasty steering, i think you'll be upset to hear that it has a much better power to weight ratio than and will handle damn better than a 330i.

It'll do better than our B48s thats for damn sure.
you didn't understand my message and your response doesn't make any sense.

the car in stock form will not last a few laps. They took motorport engineering out of it ... all over except engine and maybe chassis (we will find out soon). Anybody that has spent a few days on track knows this. E9x M3 had horrid brakes and I mean garbage. I thought F8x set the baseline and they would take it to the next level on g8x. Take a look at M2c brakes.
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      10-25-2020, 06:31 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Smooth 330i View Post
you didn't understand my message and your response doesn't make any sense.

the car in stock form will not last a few laps. They took motorport engineering out of it ... all over except engine and maybe chassis (we will find out soon). Anybody that has spent a few days on track knows this. E9x M3 had horrid brakes and I mean garbage. I thought F8x set the baseline and they would take it to the next level on g8x. Take a look at M2c brakes.
made sense to someone who repped...you should see the videos around the Nring cornering at high speeds with red hot rotors, they posted it here somewhere but take a look on youtube they are running have been running the G8x HARD a ton on the Nring lately.

I think it'll be fine, everyone freaks out each generation but time and time again, each generation improves on the last.
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      10-26-2020, 12:33 AM   #83
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They are using their iconic car as a way to introduce(forcefully) the new grill design. These grills are the future for their EV design language. BS move to be honest.
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      10-26-2020, 05:22 AM   #84
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They are using their iconic car as a way to introduce(forcefully) the new grill design. These grills are the future for their EV design language. BS move to be honest.
And EVs don't even need grilles
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      10-26-2020, 07:39 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbanck View Post
That being said, there's also a cognitive dissonance here between people complaining that the M-performance models have too close 0-60 times/performance to the real M model, and people complaining that the M-performance model has been given the holy letter M that it shouldn't deserve...
I think people should just stop considering 0-60 times as an important metric. It's just a marketing number. Put the 2 cars on a track with a decent driver and you'll see the difference b/w a real ///M and a pseudo ///M (340i, 440i).
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      11-26-2020, 03:41 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danf72 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew10 View Post
It does make you wonder because it wasn't a binary choice, the final design or nothing. The front end from the CSL Homage(?) would have differentiated the M3/4 from the other models.

It makes you wonder what designs were rejected. Some of the journos say that it makes sense and looks aggressive IRL. I hope that's the case.
Not to be negative, but the journalists are getting their cars from BMW. They are part of the marketing effort. It's no surprise they all say they like it. Some of them might, but it's business after all. BMW has to control the messaging.

Yes and as we have seen with mainstream media... they are mostly fake news.

You had an election recently which regardless of your views, no one can say the media acted in a responsible manner
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      11-29-2020, 08:52 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
Do any of you ever check automotive trends and notice that sedans and coupes are dying a slow death in the marketplace? It's like some of you expected this new model to look similar to the F80 where it could slowly fade into obscurity while sales numbers continued to shrink. BMW is trying to bring some attention to these cars. I can't recall if it was Motortrend or Road & Track but one columnist stated correctly after the reveal that the worst thing that can happen on a new model introduction is lack of buzz. The entire industry has been talking about these cars and it matters not how controversial it is, as long as it remains a relative topic it's a major win. When these cars start appearing on the street people are going to have double takes and be genuinely curious what the car is. Even if they don't know what to make of it at first sight the fact it got their attention is positive as if it looks like every other BMW it's just going to fade into the background. These cars are going to forever stick out in the BMW lineup going back over the generations and notoriety is better than being forgotten. Now if you don't like it, then don't buy it. It's really that simple and this "direction" is more an attempt at preservation in an ever-shrinking model segment before it gets to the point where every automaker sells CUV's and SUV's almost exclusively.
This thing is going to be the PT Cruiser of the 202X Gen cars. Yeah people won't forget it, because it's a joke. Not funny though when it's the end of the line for a 6 cylinder in an m3.
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      11-30-2020, 10:25 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
You...The enthusiast customer demanded more individuality to your choice of M car.
Nope, that's where you got it wrong. It's the hipster crowd that wants more "individuality". The driving enthusiast, want just that: driving enthusiasm. Clearly, as proven by the launch ads, the new M3/4 are aimed at the former. However, I would have gladly taken "individuality" over the competition in the form technical differentiation like DCT and light weight for example.
Agreed, and there'll be sufficient aftermarket individual parts to keep the "hipster crowd" happy, so it's not really needed... unless BMW wants a bigger piece of the aftermarket pie.

If BMW is really concerned with the BMW enthusiast, they would make the car smaller, lighter, etc. CanAutM3 mentioned DCT; of the Manual, instead of throwing the enthusiasts a bone by putting a Manual in the cheapest version (only) of the G8x, why not do so in the Competition version and use more lighter materials to make the overall car lighter and more nimble? It would certainly draw more enthusiast attention then "individuality."
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