09-22-2020, 10:27 PM | #1 |
Colonel
2191
Rep 2,557
Posts |
The S58 in the M3/M4 has more torque than the one in the X3/X4 M
Looks like the inside info (as usual) proved true.
In Competition spec, both versions have 503hp, but the G8X has 479lbft @2750+ vs 442lbft @2600+. Nice bump of 37lbft as well as at near the same peak start. Obviously, based on X3 M owner feedback, the hope is off-idle lag mitigation. Between the obvious different physical configuration and seeing that jump from tuning, I am optimistic. |
09-23-2020, 09:25 AM | #2 |
///M Powered for Life
11480
Rep 10,329
Posts |
Very interesting indeed. I wonder if the S58 in the M3/4 will receive a different designation like T0 or something
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-23-2020, 09:46 AM | #3 |
Colonel
3179
Rep 2,577
Posts |
Where does that come from please?
__________________
Lemania 2320
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-23-2020, 09:52 AM | #4 |
Captain
731
Rep 636
Posts
Drives: f32 430ix & 982 GT4 PDK
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Nürburgring
|
|
Appreciate
1
SYT_Shadow11479.50 |
09-23-2020, 09:56 AM | #5 |
///M Powered for Life
11480
Rep 10,329
Posts |
Many X3/4M owners have complained there's lots of lag off the line
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-23-2020, 09:58 AM | #6 |
Colonel
2191
Rep 2,557
Posts |
as you know (because you are often in the vanguard on this site ) there is a group of x3m owners who feel the off idle lag in that version of the S58 is unacceptable, of course there are also those who notice and it doesn't bother and those who don't really feel it but the feedback is consistent enough that there is something there. With a clearly different tune I think expectations should be high that it was addressed (and if so x3m owners should write asking for this tune in their LCI next summer)
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-23-2020, 10:00 AM | #7 | |
///M Powered for Life
11480
Rep 10,329
Posts |
Quote:
Confusing, but to sum up if I've understood you correctly: -Base S58 engine in M3/M4/X3M/X4M is identical -Comp S58 X3M/X4M engine is called the S58B30T0 -Comp S58 M3/M4 engine is called the S58B30O0 EDIT: where have you seen this spec sheet?
__________________
Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 09-23-2020 at 10:05 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
1
Avaley731.00 |
09-23-2020, 10:05 AM | #8 | |
Moderator
7512
Rep 19,368
Posts |
Quote:
https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/at...5&d=1600779843 The base model M3/M4 uses the O0 while the Competition model uses the T0. As far as I know, the same is true for the X3/X4 M. I mean it's on Wikipedia, so it must be true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_B58#S58 But, no, in all seriousness I think they genuinely do use the same engines, it's just that as xlover points out, the ECU tune is different for the M3/M4 (higher peak torque). |
|
Appreciate
1
SYT_Shadow11479.50 |
09-23-2020, 10:07 AM | #9 | |
///M Powered for Life
11480
Rep 10,329
Posts |
Quote:
The S55 was available in several states of tune but I think it was always a S55 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-23-2020, 10:09 AM | #10 | |
Captain
731
Rep 636
Posts
Drives: f32 430ix & 982 GT4 PDK
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Nürburgring
|
Quote:
Still trying to wrap my head around the exact mechanical differences but despite the S58 engine being brand new, BMW even over 1 model year will make slight adjustments to the engine. The power from the factory going from first series Bx8 in F3x engines in (2016-19 MY) to second in G2x (19-present) resulted in about 10-20 more hp / tq. |
|
Appreciate
1
SYT_Shadow11479.50 |
09-23-2020, 10:18 AM | #12 |
Moderator
7512
Rep 19,368
Posts |
Sure. I was addressing the discussion regarding the engine designations. Both vehicles use the S58B30O0 for the base model and S58B30T0 for the Competition model. Along with the intake/exhaust plumbing, I'm sure there are plenty of other small differences due to unique packaging requirements of the respective vehicles.
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-23-2020, 10:24 AM | #14 | |
Major General
5457
Rep 7,037
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-23-2020, 10:25 AM | #15 | |
///M Powered for Life
11480
Rep 10,329
Posts |
Quote:
When you see the stage 1 tune power curves for the X3/4M you can tell the turbos are larger for sure. It can hold 600whp until redline. The S55 can't hold even base power until redline EDIT: The S55, even with aftermarket turbos, won't hold power to redline |
|
Appreciate
1
Avaley731.00 |
09-23-2020, 10:34 AM | #16 |
Major General
5457
Rep 7,037
Posts |
It’s a bit of a mystery. I hope lemetier can shed some light on this. Larger turbos causing a right shifted TQ curve would indicate more Turbo lag than the X3M not less. Similarly if the added TQ is from a more efficient intake system with the same blowers the TQ peak should not be delayed. If its mainly ECU tuning, why the delay the TQ?. It’s intriguing.
|
Appreciate
1
SYT_Shadow11479.50 |
09-23-2020, 10:39 AM | #17 | |
Colonel
2191
Rep 2,557
Posts |
Quote:
I will add, in my opinion this adds support to the theory that the x3m was intentionally detuned off idle to give it driving characteristics more "SUV like" I suppose we won't know till later this fall when driving impressions are released. |
|
Appreciate
2
SYT_Shadow11479.50 solstice5456.50 |
09-23-2020, 10:47 AM | #18 | |
Captain
731
Rep 636
Posts
Drives: f32 430ix & 982 GT4 PDK
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Nürburgring
|
Quote:
Once the ECU is cracked and people are bolting on parts, I presume much of the lag will be gone. Still, hardware wise, BMW engines can be wildly different within even the same designation and they even have changed valvetrain dimensions, compression rates, intake design, turbo design and even aluminum quality. Within the x4/58 engines I’ve seen some T designations having stronger crankshafts and more robust pistons still being the same designation ie both B58xxxx. |
|
Appreciate
1
solstice5456.50 |
09-23-2020, 10:47 AM | #19 | |
Major General
5457
Rep 7,037
Posts |
Quote:
However, BMW’s “SUV like” is the direct opposite of my experience. SUVs are usually driven purely on low end TQ and rarely see mid and top revs or top speed.. Sport cars on the other hand are the other way. Turbo lag is worse for the usual SUV than a sports car IMO. So that explanation from BMW leaves question marks as to its authenticity. To be clear the technical specs do point to that the SUVs get supporting TQ earlier than the cars but as I understand the comment of SUV like tuning was made to explain why the X3M has a large dead spot at low revs so that doesn’t match at all. Last edited by solstice; 09-23-2020 at 11:01 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
1
LSM1118.00 |
09-23-2020, 11:05 AM | #20 |
Moderator
7512
Rep 19,368
Posts |
Indeed, but I don't think that this is particularly different from any other BMW engine, or really any other engine from any manufacturer. You'd typically have everything in the long-block assemblies shared between all vehicles, while fuel system, intake and exhaust manifolds, and electrical components might vary depending on application.
|
Appreciate
1
solstice5456.50 |
09-23-2020, 11:09 AM | #21 |
Second Lieutenant
165
Rep 254
Posts |
I don't think it is fair to say this car has more lag than the X3 M's S58 until we see dynos to see when and where it makes power since these numbers only tell us peak numbers.
Although the M3 makes 479 @ 2750, there is nothing to say it makes more or less than 443 @ 2600 like the X3 M. |
Appreciate
1
m3ct351.00 |
09-23-2020, 11:20 AM | #22 | ||
Colonel
2191
Rep 2,557
Posts |
Quote:
Sure there are a ton of "well bmw could have done this or that to deal with it" ultimately it's just a theory but putting myself in the seat of a product owner about to launch an all new car with broadest appeal possible to the target segment I can see it making sense. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|