[JoeyBananaz18]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

Theoretically yes.

I don't think that's set in stone. The g81 would come out at around the time when the LCI gets introduced. So if this look turns out to be really as bad as a lot of people fear it will be, it may look a little different. That's at least what I remember reading when the announcement of the g81 was first made. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Salespunk]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

First, all BMW needs to do is read this thread and notice the numerous people (stupidly) openly admitting they wouldn't buy an M3 wagon but voted that they would anyway. This behavior COMPLETELY reinforces the correct analysis that people are simply talking out their ass. Many couldn't even afford such a vehicle, but profess that availability is the only obstacle. When push comes to shove, only a crazy-rare few are really going to put their $80k+ into a wagon... even if it does have a M on the liftgate.

I asked this before, but will again... Has anyone else noticed how rare (like never) it is to hear of someone buying a CPO Porsche Sport Turismo? I literally can't recall ever hearing someone even mention they're considering one! Also, look around and you'll notice how unbelievably rare it is to actually see a Sport Turismo on the street. I think I've seen 3 ever... and I drive 30k miles a year throughout the entire northeast. BMW has surely done the market research and concluded (correctly imho) that wagons don't sell unless they're marketed as a SUV alternative like an AllRoad.

I have considered a Sport Turismo, but it is a different price bracket. Base model is over $100K with an average spec. If you want an S or "Turbo" then it is $125-175K. At $100K it is around 25% more expensive, at $125K more like 50%+.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Salespunk

I have considered a Sport Turismo, but it is a different price bracket. Base model is over $100K with an average spec. If you want an S or "Turbo" then it is $125-175K. At $100K it is around 25% more expensive, at $125K more like 50%+.

G81 would be as expensive if not more than a Panamera Turbo S Sport Turismo in the US.

[RM7]

Signed. I can't say that I'd 100% buy one if they ever "get around to it", in that I may have gone down a different path due to their non-offering of this car, but IF it was available at the time I was shopping, it'd be a no-brainer for me. I'd get it. The RS5 Sportback is high on my list for utility and fun for my next car. If BMW came out and said in the next few months that they'd do this, I would get the M3 Touring as my next.

But it's expensive to bring a model over and the demand has to be there. Whenever I see someone with a 3-series wagon I think what a lucky bastard they are. The convertible IMO is what needs to go.

I'd also be somewhat interested in an M4 GC, well, if it didn't look like the new 4-series.

This is a hole that keeps getting bigger and bigger. WV allroad and golf wagon not coming to the US. That's just an example. The hole is in a compact (which is really "normal" size now) wagon.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by lemetier

G81 would be as expensive if not more than a Panamera Turbo S Sport Turismo in the US.

Exactly this is where it does not make sense in regards to justify federalisation.

[khanyam4]

MSRP: From $191,700 any takers out there for a G81. I guess the numbers don't add up lol.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by Salespunk

I have considered a Sport Turismo, but it is a different price bracket. Base model is over $100K with an average spec. If you want an S or "Turbo" then it is $125-175K. At $100K it is around 25% more expensive, at $125K more like 50%+.

The price delta at new is real, but as I mentioned, I'm interested by how few (like zero) people I've heard consider a Certified Pre-Owned Sport Turismo. All the talk feels empty to me when I fail to see nearly anyone actually put their money into a hot rod wagon.

...and this is coming from a guy who imported an E55 Estate (for a client) back in the day.
Funny story is when this car came out of the trailer it cleared out the Manhattan Mercedes-Benz prep garage across the street. Nobody saw an AMG Estate in the US at the time. Individual paint too. Cool car.

[JoeyBananaz18]

Originally Posted by lemetier

G81 would be as expensive if not more than a Panamera Turbo S Sport Turismo in the US.

no. thats insane. have you been on the porsche configurator lately?

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by JoeyBananaz18

no. thats insane. have you been on the porsche configurator lately?

It's not insane. I know how much federalization costs,
how much loss BMW is willing to take.

$60000 premium per car at 150 total units at MINIMUM just to cover a PORTION of the costs associated to do it.

[PeterKBMW]

As promised, here's a my follow up from my BMW NA Professional Council meeting. It was brought up and everyone referenced the petition immediately. BMW NA openly said they would love for the car to come, and they are reconsidering it for a second time. No guarantees, just discussion. Audi RS6 avant was brought up, as was no competitor in the C63/RS5/Guila quad segment (which is a good thing). The issue is that they would have to homologate/federalize they wagon which is going to be much more expensive since the 3 wagon is not offered here. Short discussion about looking at bringing both came up as well to spread the cost out, but it sounded like only the G81 was being considered.

They bluntly asked a question which I loved, how much of a premium will consumers be willing to pay for the wagon vs the coupe/sedan/convertible? Since it's seems like it would only be the G81 possibly coming, would you be willing to pay 90k, 100k for one? That I think is the real discussion we should be having, a poll for that may be a good idea.

Just remember, none of the items mentioned above in no way state that this is happening. They're just simply discussing the possibility and if it even makes sense to do it. If they see real demand, anything can happen. They're clearly watching, so let's keep the discussion going.

[JoeyBananaz18]

Originally Posted by lemetier

It's not insane. I know how much federalization costs,
how much loss BMW is willing to take.

$60000 premium per car at 150 total units at MINIMUM just to cover a PORTION of the costs associated to do it.

let me clear up where i was coming from. if this was to come over as a limited run model, like 1000 units, you're absolutely correct. and i'd tell bmw to forget it because as you said, it would be priced the way jag did with the sport brake and price it to the point where it just doesn't make sense. there's a 15k premium going from the intro sedan to the intro long roof.

Porsche has a premium as well but from what i can tell that price jump goes down as the trim level gets higher, so 6200 on the 4/4S trim and 4K for the turbos.

I guess what i was thinking was that if it was to arrive as a more "mainstream" model (one not introduced with a cap on production), it wouldn't be that high.

Still though, going back to what we were originally debating, a turbo sport turismo is 157K. the M8 GC isn't that much. if they were to bring the G81 over for that much, they couldn't even get the enthusiasts to pick them up. Because if i had that amount of money ready for a car, im getting the porsche lol.


EDIT: So this one is really interesting. I took a look at audi and compared the RS6 avant to the RS7. As far as i can tell the major difference between those two is one is a proper wagon and the other is a hatch. Same drivetrain and all. the avant is actually cheeper than the RS7, 109k vs 114k.

[JoeyBananaz18]

Originally Posted by PeterKBMW

As promised, here's a my follow up from my BMW NA Professional Council meeting. It was brought up and everyone referenced the petition immediately. BMW NA openly said they would love for the car to come, and they are reconsidering it for a second time. No guarantees, just discussion. Audi RS6 avant was brought up, as was no competitor in the C63/RS5/Guila quad segment (which is a good thing). The issue is that they would have to homologate/federalize they wagon which is going to be much more expensive since the 3 wagon is not offered here. Short discussion about looking at bringing both came up as well to spread the cost out, but it sounded like only the G81 was being considered.

They bluntly asked a question which I loved, how much of a premium will consumers be willing to pay for the wagon vs the coupe/sedan/convertible? Since it's seems like it would only be the G81 possibly coming, would you be willing to pay 90k, 100k for one? That I think is the real discussion we should be having, a poll for that may be a good idea.

Just remember, none of the items mentioned above in no way state that this is happening. They're just simply discussing the possibility and if it even makes sense to do it. If they see real demand, anything can happen. They're clearly watching, so let's keep the discussion going.

sounds like it was a promising and constructive discussion. Please thank them for taking us seriously and at least entertaining this idea. they could have very easily just brushed it off.
I'd probably do a premium of 4-5k maybe a little more. One thing that could make it more enticing to buyers would be a no-cost individual paint/leather option. that way each car would truly be special.

Did they say anything about convertible numbers? I know a lot of people love their drop-tops but if this poll is anything to go off of, there may not be as much interest for this generation. seeing as how they already have the Z4, M4 and 850/M8, if take rate on the M4 (which is in the middle of tat range price wise) is low enough would they ever consider dropping it, and have a wagon variant take its place?


EDIT: Audi brought over an All road version of the A6 along with the RS6. Would BMW ever thing of doing an "all road" version of the 3er?

[PeterKBMW]

No convertible numbers discussed. I don't even have to ask; they're definitely not going to drop the convertible for the wagon, especially since we're getting a 4CV anyways.

Time will tell. I think if anything, it would make sense even if there's a way to break even on the wagon. Think of the marketing potential, showing that BMW still cares about the enthusiasts input. Imagine the car industry, magazines, reviews, etc. They would eat it up.

I don't see an all road version of the 3 wagon, it's never been a thing for a bmw. Would like to see even the standard wagon return.

I would love a 6 speed manual G81; but quite frankly, I'd take any version of it if we have any chance of it coming. My F80 M3 was a 6 speed manual, and my R35 GTR is a DCT. Love driving both equally!

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by JoeyBananaz18

let me clear up where i was coming from. if this was to come over as a limited run model, like 1000 units, you're absolutely correct. and i'd tell bmw to forget it because as you said, it would be priced the way jag did with the sport brake and price it to the point where it just doesn't make sense. there's a 15k premium going from the intro sedan to the intro long roof.

Porsche has a premium as well but from what i can tell that price jump goes down as the trim level gets higher, so 6200 on the 4/4S trim and 4K for the turbos.

I guess what i was thinking was that if it was to arrive as a more "mainstream" model (one not introduced with a cap on production), it wouldn't be that high.

Still though, going back to what we were originally debating, a turbo sport turismo is 157K. the M8 GC isn't that much. if they were to bring the G81 over for that much, they couldn't even get the enthusiasts to pick them up. Because if i had that amount of money ready for a car, im getting the porsche lol.


EDIT: So this one is really interesting. I took a look at audi and compared the RS6 avant to the RS7. As far as i can tell the major difference between those two is one is a proper wagon and the other is a hatch. Same drivetrain and all. the avant is actually cheeper than the RS7, 109k vs 114k.

M GmBH is allocating a maximum of 1000 G81 for the rest of world.

When we discussed doing a F81, only 17 Dealer Principals were on board.

G81 - 3. Three.

Porsche allocates 200 Sport Turismo for the US annually, but have not sold that many in any year.

The C8 RS6 was easy to Federalize as the battery is no longer located inside the passenger compartment and is substantially similar to other models to reduce the costs even further.

[brad850csi]

Originally Posted by lemetier

M GmBH is allocating a maximum of 1000 G81 for the rest of world.

When we discussed doing a F81, only 17 Dealer Principals were on board.

G81 - 3. Three.

Porsche allocates 200 Sport Turismo for the US annually, but have not sold that many in any year.

The C8 RS6 was easy to Federalize as the battery is no longer located inside the passenger compartment and is substantially similar to other models to reduce the costs even further.

Any idea on RHD/LHD split and 8AT + 4wd vs 6MT + 2wd yet?

Honestly, out of the US I feel like someone might as well buy a B3 or B5 touring.

Wait....where is the battery on a B5?

[JoeyBananaz18]

Originally Posted by lemetier

When we discussed doing a F81, only 17 Dealer Principals were on board.

G81 - 3. Three.

Porsche allocates 200 Sport Turismo for the US annually, but have not sold that many in any year.

The C8 RS6 was easy to Federalize as the battery is no longer located inside the passenger compartment and is substantially similar to other models to reduce the costs even further.

Now I have to ask.

What do you do to have access to that information? Sounds like it would be super interesting.

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by lemetier

G81 would be as expensive if not more than a Panamera Turbo S Sport Turismo in the US.

Touring have always been priced 1000-2000$ more than sedan why should it be different now.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

Touring have always been priced 1000-2000$ more than sedan why should it be different now.

Volume to amortize the federalization costs.

[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

northeast. BMW has surely done the market research and concluded (correctly imho) that wagons don't sell unless they're marketed as a SUV alternative like an AllRoad.

Boston here. I see a lot of F31s. Much more than 3GTs or 5GTs. Definitely more than M3s.

Upmarket wagons ( Sport Turismos, etc.), you're right. But a G21 would do well enough.

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by JoeyBananaz18

Now I have to ask.

What do you do to have access to that information? Sounds like it would be super interesting.

National Security Agency

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Exactly this is where it does not make sense in regards to justify federalisation.

You just have to bring the G21 at the same time scale economy.

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by lemetier

Volume to amortize the federalization costs.

Bmw just have to take a lost on this one it like publicity it's an investment you bring a different type of customers to the brand while having all the car reviewer suddenly loving your brand.