[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by mbanck

It's either cost cutting, or weight increase, BMW can't win.

I mean, they could stop adding weight if their cars stopped getting larger.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by 435i_Phil

I mean, they could stop adding weight if their cars stopped getting larger.

If the average (Americans especially) buyer would stop purchasing larger vehicles then I imagine automakers would get inline. Vehicles like the STI and Civic Type R are supposed to be compacts but they are massive vehicles. It's the death knell these days to have less seating and cargo capacity than your competition. It's why Porsche has an advantage building their sports cars on dedicated platforms that don't have to cater to volume sales.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by 435i_Phil

I mean, they could stop adding weight if their cars stopped getting larger.

From the E46 to the G80, the M3 grew a single foot (12") in length in 16 years. I see your point, but it could be a lot worse.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

From the E46 to the G80, the M3 grew a single foot (12") in length in 16 years. I see your point, but it could be a lot worse.

And the G22 430i added 4 lbs over the F32 430i. What this mean for the G8X remain to be seen but it might not be as bad as some predict.

[MFNATIK]

The G20 is larger than an E39 and slightly smaller than an E60. I would say it's basically a 5 series now but they didn't change the model/class. G80 is the new M5. The F10 and F90s are basically 7 series or M7s. The M2 is really the M3.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by MFNATIK

The G20 is larger than an E39 and slightly smaller than an E60. I would say it's basically a 5 series now but they didn't change the model/class. G80 is the new M5. The F10 and F90s are basically 7 series or M7s. The M2 is really the M3.

The M2 is the same length as the E46 so I see what you're saying.

You're still going to be able to thread a needle going 90 mph with the G80.

[Boostedphil698]

The 7 Series today is like a land yacht. I didn't think a big car could get any bigger.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by 435i_Phil

The 7 Series today is like a land yacht. I didn't think a big car could get any bigger.

People that buy those cars (and MB S-Class's) are not concerned about size for the most part. My father has had 11 MB S Class's in a row going back 30 something years and is completely unaware of the size difference lol.

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

People that buy those cars (and MB S-Class's) are not concerned about size for the most part. My father has had 11 MB S Class's in a row going back 30 something years and is completely unaware of the size difference lol.

It hust baffles my mind how large they are. Like why? lol

[VetteGuy]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

If the average (Americans especially) buyer would stop purchasing larger vehicles then I imagine automakers would get inline. Vehicles like the STI and Civic Type R are supposed to be compacts but they are massive vehicles. It's the death knell these days to have less seating and cargo capacity than your competition. It's why Porsche has an advantage building their sports cars on dedicated platforms that don't have to cater to volume sales.

You identified the problem, if it really is a problem... Buyers, most especially Americans, generally prefer larger vehicles. That’s why top selling vehicles in US are trucks. The manufacturers are simply building what sells.

[akprasad81]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

There are electronic parking brake fixed calipers, BMW just doesn't want to pay for it. Big rear brakes help with making the car squat more under load, instead of noise diving.

I think the rear brakes are just the tip of the iceberg. I just looked at the latest CT4-V Blackwing - it’s a crying shame that a BMW’s braking technology is aiming for cost savings versus a Cadillac is now cutting edge - even per Brembo. A separate EPB and 4-piston rear caliper could have been easily adopted. Not to mention on the M5 CS - which is aimed to be a more precise tool. For the cost of the vehicle - this is an easy add on.
Everything from the way the brakes are cooled, to the human-machine interface is all very heavily diluted for more commonality and a few tenths at the track is deemed as progress (not many people track this car). Steering feel is a whole different topic…
Braking is one of the many areas where BMW is choosing to do the bare minimum. Lack of 48v anti-roll bar and staying with the older hydraulic system is the second example of BMW chasing costs and leaving cutting edge to the competition.
It almost seems like the wonderful balance of the G80 series is let down by these cost cuts - the bean counters are very much at work here.

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by akprasad81

I think the rear brakes are just the tip of the iceberg. I just looked at the latest CT4-V Blackwing - it’s a crying shame that a BMW’s braking technology is aiming for cost savings versus a Cadillac is now cutting edge - even per Brembo. A separate EPB and 4-piston rear caliper could have been easily adopted. Not to mention on the M5 CS - which is aimed to be a more precise tool. For the cost of the vehicle - this is an easy add on.
Everything from the way the brakes are cooled, to the human-machine interface is all very heavily diluted for more commonality and a few tenths at the track is deemed as progress (not many people track this car). Steering feel is a whole different topic…
Braking is one of the many areas where BMW is choosing to do the bare minimum. Lack of 48v anti-roll bar and staying with the older hydraulic system is the second example of BMW chasing costs and leaving cutting edge to the competition.
It almost seems like the wonderful balance of the G80 series is let down by these cost cuts - the bean counters are very much at work here.

Even the Corvettes have fixed brakes on the rear. I just don't get it anymore.

[MarineRaider]

This thread is hilarious. I pointed out this summer on a couple of other of these passive/aggressive threads nitpicking the new M's that people that just in a quick review save one person have 4-7 year old X3's, 3 series BMWs and suddenly are offended at our rear calipers. Hilarious. yes, that is what kept you from trading in your 6 year old BMW for the new M.

The Porsche argument is beyond ridiculous. As a current GT owner and a TTS on order and more than 6 Porsches owned previously ( I say this only to make this very important point) Porsche is highly, highly profitable, in fact the most profitable...just because the Cayman/Boxster has pretty brakes in the rear I absolutely assure you as a 987 Cayman owner and Spyder that they got their money...like a 97k Cayman GTS or a 79k 987 Spyder. If Porsche had built the G80 it would have cost 125k. Every freaking thing on a Porsche is an option. I have been building my TTS every night ( my PTS allocation is 14 months away) and trying to keep it under 230k and have it be special is proving to be very difficult.

Porsche does Porsche better than anyone. BMW makes lots of cars and has to make enough money to pay a lot of people, keep the lights on and invest in new cars. I would wager the margin off one mid level Boxster is equal to 2 M cars.

[yousefnjr]

Lots of engineers in here

[Mowe]

I am certain that BMW knows what their doing. My only gripe is for $8100 for the options CCB's I would like the look of a 2 piston caliper in the rear lol.

I think the single looks cheesy. 🥺

[kjx]

Originally Posted by MarineRaider

This thread is hilarious. I pointed out this summer on a couple of other of these passive/aggressive threads nitpicking the new M's that people that just in a quick review save one person have 4-7 year old X3's, 3 series BMWs and suddenly are offended at our rear calipers. Hilarious. yes, that is what kept you from trading in your 6 year old BMW for the new M.

To be honest, I was quite disappointed at how cheap looking the rear calipers were on the M4, compared to the M-sport brakes on my 2016 435i GC. It didn't stop me from buying the car obviously, but nonetheless...

[MarineRaider]

Originally Posted by kjx

To be honest, I was quite disappointed at how cheap looking the rear calipers were on the M4, compared to the M-sport brakes on my 2016 435i GC. It didn't stop me from buying the car obviously, but nonetheless...

Sure. I would like for it to have been better but frankly I am used to it. I recently had a RS3, it has mammoth 8 piston fronts with drilled front rotors....the rear calipers look like they are from a Yarris. But they worked fine, I believe on the RS3 board there was the same sort of responses....but from RS3 owners. This thread is like the ones asking about the radar in the front grill and every other nitpick about the car from people that do not own, nor intend on owning the cars....in leu of bitching about the GRILLS.

I have watched the threads and chuckled for the past 5 months but this thread for some reason was more amusing than most...I mean one guy who is particularly upset has a fucking " stanced Honda " whatever that means!

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

Those are two piston rears on your M4.....

Lol

[moonluv810]

I believe all the arguments made here were solely based on the looks of floating calipers.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that swapping pads on fixed calipers are much easier and faster than on floating calipers with parking brake modules.

If you swap pads often for track days, this is a drawback of having floating calipers.

[androidtopp]

Originally Posted by spool twice

They could have at least designed a cover/trim so that it doesn't look so basic next to the fixed caliper fronts.

Ignoring all discussion about the merits of fixed, floating, or piston count - let's be honest and admit that if BMW had put a fake cover on the rear brake caliper to make it look cooler/bigger/fancier, there would be just as much outcry although maybe from a different audience. I can see the thread title now..."BMW tried to hide cheap rear brakes!"

The products already exist: https://www.calipercovers.com/, and although those actually seem "high end," I bet there's something available at Pep Boys to do the job too. Not trying to pick a fight, but I think there's a lot of people on this forum, myself included, that would scoff at something like this. There's always going to be someone unhappy, regardless of what the manufacturers do.

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by androidtopp

Ignoring all discussion about the merits of fixed, floating, or piston count - let's be honest and admit that if BMW had put a fake cover on the rear brake caliper to make it look cooler/bigger/fancier, there would be just as much outcry although maybe from a different audience. I can see the thread title now..."BMW tried to hide cheap rear brakes!"

The products already exist: https://www.calipercovers.com/, and although those actually seem "high end," I bet there's something available at Pep Boys to do the job too. Not trying to pick a fight, but I think there's a lot of people on this forum, myself included, that would scoff at something like this. There's always going to be someone unhappy, regardless of what the manufacturers do.

Caliper covers are horrible. The brackets rub on the rotors when the rotors get hot and swell.

[jimbethesda]

Originally Posted by kjx

To be honest, I was quite disappointed at how cheap looking the rear calipers were on the M4, compared to the M-sport brakes on my 2016 435i GC. It didn't stop me from buying the car obviously, but nonetheless...

Yes. Which is why I got the black wheels and black calipers. You can barely see them. I love how red calipers pop, but the rears are so wee, I wanted to hide them.