[snareman]

Originally Posted by M2Cmtl

I think it’s clear this car is no longer aimed at enthusiasts...

BMW made the slide towards soccer moms and the like some years ago and hasn't looked back. They went from an enthusiast brand to a brand for the people. I suppose it makes sense from a business standpoint as more people will buy the cars, perhaps especially the people that once thought they couldn't afford a BMW. Unfortunately doesn't do much for us enthusiasts. It's somewhat rare now that I can pull up to a BMW at a light and think that Joan Camry in the 328 would even notice that I am also driving a BMW and give me a friendly nod.

[bmwdrive]

I agree. What do they have like 57 models now? But then why bother building M cars at all? Those are not for the mainstream and they are low volume.

[snareman]

Originally Posted by danf72

I agree. What do they have like 57 models now? But then why bother building M cars at all? Those are not for the mainstream and they are low volume.

Maybe that's why Mercedes just pared down their models and now aren't bringing a bunch of them to the US. I was all set to go get the newly redesigned C63 AMG that doesn't exist yet and run away from these grilles, but now that doesn't seem to be an option.

[RinconHeat]

Originally Posted by snareman

Maybe that's why Mercedes just pared down their models and now aren't bringing a bunch of them to the US. I was all set to go get the newly redesigned C63 AMG that doesn't exist yet and run away from these grilles, but now that doesn't seem to be an option.

The renders of the 2022 MB AMG-SL are looking lovely- depending on its handling I may replace my M2c with it in a couple of years.

[OF Hero]

Large grille wasn't my preference, but isn't earth shattering for me, and have actually grown to like it.

If I could make some small tweaks, however, I would give the grille more of a slant and a V or tapered look to make it resemble the CSL Hommage. IMO that would be perfect.

[10"]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I asked the question to the marketing divisions responsible for BMW and indeed BMW M regarding the foot traffic who have socially distanced themselves to view THE 4 and M3/M4 about the Grille controversy and if it has maintained with the viewings?

In the case of the 4 there was apprehension but when seen in real life the response has somewhat been favourable.
If you have seen the 4 in real life? Then against official launch pictures you know it definitely does not photograph well. One feature identified of note is especially when looking at the rear where the definition of the body over the wheel arches is not highlighted well.
It makes the body heavier over the rear wheels.

With the twin M's the people who have been lucky to see it (well in Europe) anyway say they relatively like the new appearance. Yes there has been some Alfaisti commentary to its similarities, as one would expect. Testament to Alfa Romeo for making the Guilia Cloverleaf so good to warrant BMW M to benchmark.

But generally overall response has been high and favourable.
And these people would definitely raise flags if there was extremely bad feedback.
Personally from a practicality point of view I preferred M3 over M4 but rule out both for the M3 Touring. Although for the wait I would take an M3 and wait for the Touring.

In both occasions they do point out that the Internet and social media is usually not representative of real life.

Thanks for your thoughts. Appreciate them.

The biggest problem here is that the M3 and M4 really are supposed to be made for enthusiasts.

The internet may not be entirely representative of the population BUT it is undeniable that the internet fuels excitement and anticipation of most goods in 2020.

BMW turning a blind eye to the heavy negativity this large grille is getting is a mistake IMO.

The M3 in particular, is the spirit of the M car. If ANY car is made for enthusiasts in mind it should be this one more than any other.

If not the case then I think most of us will now presume that the M2 is the new "spirit" of the M car—-a thought which many of us already seem to think is true

[VetteGuy]

Originally Posted by 10"

Thanks for your thoughts. Appreciate them.

The biggest problem here is that the M3 and M4 really are supposed to be made for enthusiasts.

The internet may not be entirely representative of the population BUT it is undeniable that the internet fuels excitement and anticipation of most goods in 2020.

BMW turning a blind eye to the heavy negativity this large grille is getting is a mistake IMO.

The M3 in particular, is the spirit of the M car. If ANY car is made for enthusiasts in mind it should be this one more than any other.

If not the case then I think most of us will now presume that the M2 is the new "spirit" of the M car—-a thought which many of us already seem to think is true

Yes, these are enthusiast cars but that does not mean the cars needs to remain virtually unchanged every year. Each generation of these cars has brought forth considerable styling and technology tweaks, some loved, some not so much. IMO, as an enthusiast, I think the new M3 and M4 demonstrate that the previous models have grown a little stale, which BMW enthusiasts certainly are not.

No, we won’t all love everything about every new iteration of a updated model, but there will be plenty to like and new enthusiasts to cultivate. A little evolution and some new colors... all good for the brand and for real enthusiasts.

[FrankieNuo]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

so bmw decided to do a modern-retro throwback with the grill for 2021-2026 bread and butter 3 and 4 series? Bc heritage and old school is what the people want? Not buying it. Seems more like a me-too copy of the industry: Audi, Mercedes, Toyota and many other brands. Bmw like Porsche were hold-outs and made attractive cars in the recent gen, now bmw are just following.

The consumer has forced their hand. Competition with Audi and Mercedes has clearly forced them to trend towards larger grills. Adapt or be forgotten.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by FrankieNuo

The consumer has forced their hand. Competition with Audi and Mercedes has clearly forced them to trend towards larger grills. Adapt or be forgotten.

I'm sorry but that is just ridiculous. The consumer is not choosing alternative brands bc bmw's grill is too small, or customers cant recognize bmw in a crowd of other cars. BMW is doing this bc they want to be bold and they think the boldness of the car design will command higher margins (profits).

[FrankieNuo]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

I'm sorry but that is just ridiculous. The consumer is not choosing alternative brands bc bmw's grill is too small, or customers cant recognize bmw in a crowd of other cars. BMW is doing this bc they want to be bold and they think the boldness of the car design will command higher margins (profits).

That's contrary to your original statement regarding me too movement. Can't have it both ways. Either way I think we can both agree that it's not the best decision.

[atopa2002]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

Apples vs oranges.

When the F8x was launched the hate came from the switch from normally aspirated V8 to turbo inline 6(sound and turbo lag). The F8x also had grown in size. The styling was mostly praised by the majority.

The G8x hate is pure styling. The giant pig nose is very controversial. Not just on BMW forums by F8x owners, but all over non-BMW websites. Auto websites/blogs comment sections are sh*tting on the front end of the G8x.

Instead of focus being on the switch to a traditional torque converter transmission and optional awd. Those HUGE changes are being ignored because of the horrible design.

Didn't they call the F8X front end a valva

[cehrl7]

Originally Posted by DallasLife345M

I think this car, along with the entire new gen of M3/4, is very ugly. With that said, this happens every generation to every car. When the F8x's were being released all the E92 owners hated them. Same thing happens over on the P-car boards, every new generation is despised, well for the first few months anyway. I've watched as the same naysayers end up in the new gen, then love them. In about 6 months when these babies are on all the boards, mods are being released, and they are all the rage, everyone will love them. And sadly, the F8x will be old hat.

I will never be able to love that hideous grill. I will keep my F80 M3.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by FrankieNuo

That's contrary to your original statement regarding me too movement. Can't have it both ways. Either way I think we can both agree that it's not the best decision.

I see your point, but I would rather adjust my position than be incorrect.

But if I can clarify, I think bmw is playing catch-up and following the crowd, but they are also one-upping for hype. These statements may seem in conflict, but this is my opinion

[Imola3]

Spy shot of F8X grilles

[MFNATIK]

You mean G8X lol

[Savage_M3]

Any renders with US plates? Center mount or tow mount?

[Mosef81]

I am not sure its just the size of the grill. The CSL Hommage had pretty big grills, was bold, had the classic proportions. Few would have complained if they had cut and pasted. Instead they got this Domagog Douchebag to come along with his team of cretins and create a turd.

BMW will of course let it slide for this generation because ultimately the business model is that of leasing and renewal in 2/3 years and a lot of people driving around in M cars are in them for bragging rights so won't care how it looks, nor how it corners. People will just jump into another M3/4 just because it's the fastest thing that can accommodate their family, that they can brag about in the Pub, and which they can drive up some poor audi's arse.

We as a community have to face up to the fact that the proportion of "enthusiasts" is now low and very few cars will be tailored for us going into the future. But when thoughts get really dark, let us console ourselves that at least we are not in the market for the new 1 series.

Getting cheery then, the flip side is that it might drive brilliantly and it might just be a simple case of 'bagging the face'.

[Colinv6]

Originally Posted by Mosef81

I am not sure its just the size of the grill. The CSL Hommage had pretty big grills, was bold, had the classic proportions. Few would have complained if they had cut and pasted. Instead they got this Domagog Douchebag to come along with his team of cretins and create a turd.

BMW will of course let it slide for this generation because ultimately the business model is that of leasing and renewal in 2/3 years and a lot of people driving around in M cars are in them for bragging rights so won't care how it looks, nor how it corners. People will just jump into another M3/4 just because it's the fastest thing that can accommodate their family, that they can brag about in the Pub, and which they can drive up some poor audi's arse.

We as a community have to face up to the fact that the proportion of "enthusiasts" is now low and very few cars will be tailored for us going into the future. But when thoughts get really dark, let us console ourselves that at least we are not in the market for the new 1 series.

Getting cheery then, the flip side is that it might drive brilliantly and it might just be a simple case of 'bagging the face'.

My wife had a previous gen 1 series and it was a great car, we also had an M135i when they first came out in 2013.

The new one is so bad, I actually laugh whenever I see one. Honestly the new Focus looks so much nicer on the road.

[Mosef81]

Originally Posted by Colinv6

My wife had a previous gen 1 series and it was a great car, we also had an M135i when they first came out in 2013.

The new one is so bad, I actually laugh whenever I see one. Honestly the new Focus looks so much nicer on the road.

I remember renting a 120i in Cadiz and thinking "do I need any more car than this?". And indeed, until recently, the lovely thing about BMW as opposed to any other manufacturer, was that at most price points there was joy to be had.. Simply in the sheer driving dynamics if not the elegant looks. You didn't have to fork out and sell a few vital organs like porsche, nor look solely at their performance division like Mercedes.

Times are changing. We will have to change with them I guess.

[Savage_M3]

Originally Posted by Mosef81

I am not sure its just the size of the grill. The CSL Hommage had pretty big grills, was bold, had the classic proportions. Few would have complained if they had cut and pasted. Instead they got this Domagog Douchebag to come along with his team of cretins and create a turd.

The CSL Hommage had plenty of curves that complemented the larger grills. It was more of a natural fit versus the plastered on nature of this incarnation.

[bmwdrive]

Originally Posted by Mosef81

I remember renting a 120i in Cadiz and thinking "do I need any more car than this?". And indeed, until recently, the lovely thing about BMW as opposed to any other manufacturer, was that at most price points there was joy to be had.. Simply in the sheer driving dynamics if not the elegant looks. You didn't have to fork out and sell a few vital organs like porsche, nor look solely at their performance division like Mercedes.

Times are changing. We will have to change with them I guess.

Well there is always the M2 which is a bargain compared to Porsche. I hope the M3 pricing stays somewhat sane.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Savage_M3

The CSL Hommage had plenty of curves that complemented the larger grills. It was more of a natural fit versus the plastered on nature of this incarnation.

I'm probably one of the few on the forum who openly admitted they didn't like the CSL Hommage. It was actually pretty boring to me and reminiscent of an older 6 Series CSI. Hard pass! I would rather keep my F82.