[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

We have to understand the negativity of the grill is mostly coming from the enthusiast buyers. That is a very small sliver of the overall market. Most non-hardcover enthusiasts I have spoken to love this. This will be a massive seller. Even better is the fact of more choices to customize based on your specific needs. A lot more interesting colors interior and exterior. And probably more to come after this first MY.

I don't think that's the case.

I consider myself a hardcore M enthusiast, I currently have 5 BMWs and 3 of them are full M cars (E90 stroker, E92, CS). Two of them are dedicated to the track.

Being a hardcore enthusiast seems to mean one is more interested in function, not form. The incessant whining about the aesthetic values of the G8X generation tells me it is not coming from 'hardcore enthusiasts', but hard parkers who are concerned their cars won't get enough likes on instagram and cars & coffee.

I don't really care what it looks like as long as it performs.

Also, a 'hardcore enthusiast' should stick to BMW or whatever brand they claim to be fans of. When someone tells me they are hardcore BMW enthusiasts but drive car X or Y I wonder if they hear how stupid their comment sounds. It's as dumb as:
-I'm a hardcore blond enthusiast but am married to a brunette
-I'm a hardcore vegan food enthusiast but let's go to Five Guys
etc etc

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I don't think that's the case.

I consider myself a hardcore M enthusiast, I currently have 5 BMWs and 3 of them are full M cars (E90 stroker, E92, CS). Two of them are dedicated to the track.

Being a hardcore enthusiast seems to mean one is more interested in function, not form. The incessant whining about the aesthetic values of the G8X generation tells me it is not coming from 'hardcore enthusiasts', but hard parkers who are concerned their cars won't get enough likes on instagram and cars & coffee.

I don't really care what it looks like as long as it performs.

Also, a 'hardcore enthusiast' should stick to BMW or whatever brand they claim to be fans of. When someone tells me they are hardcore BMW enthusiasts but drive car X or Y I wonder if they hear how stupid their comment sounds. It's as dumb as:
-I'm a hardcore blond enthusiast but am married to a brunette
-I'm a hardcore vegan food enthusiast but let's go to Five Guys
etc etc

Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing!

I like the part about "hardcore parkers". But I would say the new Ms should get more notice than the previous F gen lol.

Regardless, I for one will look forward to picking up the new M3 in 2 years.

[pz619]

The reality is that we will never know for sure, or if sales will even be impacted. There is zero chance that they are going to say "M3/M4 sales have been down because people hate our new design". They will blame it on <insert any other excuse here>.

[Kyler13]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I don't think that's the case.

I consider myself a hardcore M enthusiast, I currently have 5 BMWs and 3 of them are full M cars (E90 stroker, E92, CS). Two of them are dedicated to the track.

Being a hardcore enthusiast seems to mean one is more interested in function, not form. The incessant whining about the aesthetic values of the G8X generation tells me it is not coming from 'hardcore enthusiasts', but hard parkers who are concerned their cars won't get enough likes on instagram and cars & coffee.

I don't really care what it looks like as long as it performs.

Also, a 'hardcore enthusiast' should stick to BMW or whatever brand they claim to be fans of. When someone tells me they are hardcore BMW enthusiasts but drive car X or Y I wonder if they hear how stupid their comment sounds. It's as dumb as:
-I'm a hardcore blond enthusiast but am married to a brunette
-I'm a hardcore vegan food enthusiast but let's go to Five Guys
etc etc

This is quite a myopic viewpoint. I consider myself an enthusiast and I don't think that means I'm required to live with being repulsed every time I look at a car I just spent 90 large on. I don't Instagram, tweet, or Facebook. I could care less what others think. I need 4 doors and would opt for an M5 or M8 GC before an M3 at this point, but neither are in my price range.

[Jcali86]

Originally Posted by Kyler13

This is quite a myopic viewpoint. I consider myself an enthusiast and I don't think that means I'm required to live with being repulsed every time I look at a car I just spent 90 large on. I don't Instagram, tweet, or Facebook. I could care less what others think. I need 4 doors and would opt for an M5 or M8 GC before an M3 at this point, but neither are in my price range.

I'm guessing you meant 'couldn't care less', but regardless; what do you think you'll pick up instead? Do you think you'll change your mind if you see it or you're 100% sure it's not for you?

[hellrotm]

Inflated residuals and low lease payments will be the norm.

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

Inflated residuals and low lease payments will be the norm.

This is interesting. I have never leased any cars. But maybe I am a chump all these years and should just lease the new M3. That seems to be what most M owners do anyways.

[///M3Fresh]

Covid did the completely Opposite of what you think will happen, especially in the used market. There is a lot of disposable and pent up money that people didnt spend since they were all locked up.

However bad the front end looks, the market is the Chinese economy and they are catering to them so itll sell. Time will tell.

[Flamingi]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

This is interesting. I have never leased any cars. But maybe I am a chump all these years and should just lease the new M3. That seems to be what most M owners do anyways.

It just really depends on where you are located and what the deals are in your area. At the end of the day, what counts is total cost of ownership. Just make the calculations and choose whatever option is cheaper in the end. But ofc always keep in mind you have to undo all mods when returning the car (or negotiate with your dealer what to do when returning).

In Europe, especially Germany, leasing always is cheaper than buying. That's why BMW has like 85% leasing rate here. TÜV being super strict and pretty much all mods that go beyond of a remap being illegal doesn't help either...

[Jcali86]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

This is interesting. I have never leased any cars. But maybe I am a chump all these years and should just lease the new M3. That seems to be what most M owners do anyways.

I plan to buy as well, I want to own it not rent it, whether it's cheaper or not.

[VetteGuy]

I don’t understand those that blame the styling on the Chinese market. Sure it’s the fastest growing market for vehicle sales but not necessarily bold grills or overly dramatic style.

When you look at the top selling cars in China, there is no plethora of dramatic styles or huge grills. In fact VW held almost 15% of the Chinese market in 2019. Even Buick made the top 10. BMW, 13th, increased sales by 17% with their “normal” grills.

https://carsalesbase.com/china-car-s...s-2019-brands/

Bottom line is, styles and technologies change, or else we would all be riding domesticated animals or driving black Ford Model T like vehicles. Manufacturers of most vehicles, including BMW, are in business for the profit and they design and engineer years ahead based on the emerging trends and markets, including the growing demand for SUVs and EV’s.

[JDUNITNOW]

Originally Posted by VetteGuy

I don't understand those that blame the styling on the Chinese market. Sure it's the fastest growing market for vehicle sales but not necessarily bold grills or overly dramatic style.

When you look at the top selling cars in China, there is no plethora of dramatic styles or huge grills. In fact VW held almost 15% of the Chinese market in 2019. Even Buick made the top 10. BMW, 13th, increased sales by 17% with their "normal" grills.

https://carsalesbase.com/china-car-s...s-2019-brands/

Bottom line is, styles and technologies change, or else we would all be riding domesticated animals or driving black Ford Model T like vehicles. Manufacturers of most vehicles, including BMW, are in business for the profit and they design and engineer years ahead based on the emerging trends and markets, including the growing demand for SUVs and EV's.

Its human nature, most people are conditioned to blame someone or something on others for change. Thats where we are in society now. The G80's redesign is a cause of social media and the Chinese market and next it will be blamed on climate change

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by Wyndi335I

Its human nature, most people are conditioned to blame someone or something on others for change. Thats where we are in society now. The G80's redesign is a cause of social media and the Chinese market and next it will be blamed on climate change

Originally Posted by VetteGuy

I don't understand those that blame the styling on the Chinese market. Sure it's the fastest growing market for vehicle sales but not necessarily bold grills or overly dramatic style.

When you look at the top selling cars in China, there is no plethora of dramatic styles or huge grills. In fact VW held almost 15% of the Chinese market in 2019. Even Buick made the top 10. BMW, 13th, increased sales by 17% with their "normal" grills.

https://carsalesbase.com/china-car-s...s-2019-brands/

Bottom line is, styles and technologies change, or else we would all be riding domesticated animals or driving black Ford Model T like vehicles. Manufacturers of most vehicles, including BMW, are in business for the profit and they design and engineer years ahead based on the emerging trends and markets, including the growing demand for SUVs and EV's.

Two of the most sensible posts made in this entire thread. Great job and glad you two thought critically beyond the headlines.

[Rewted]

Originally Posted by VetteGuy

Bottom line is, styles and technologies change, or else we would all be riding domesticated animals or driving black Ford Model T like vehicles. Manufacturers of most vehicles, including BMW, are in business for the profit and they design and engineer years ahead based on the emerging trends and markets, including the growing demand for SUVs and EV’s.

Obviously. But there are certainly more visually appeal domesticated animals I'd be riding, it's quite the shock to see a set of donkey teeth on wheels!

Joking aside, we has humans have difficulty accepting change and often find comfort in the norm. A lot of consumers feel this change is just too drastic. Admittedly it has grown on me a little.

[f80er]

Originally Posted by Jcali86

I plan to buy as well, I want to own it not rent it, whether it's cheaper or not.

Why wouldn't you want to save $$$ if you could? Meaning you could potentially lease and then buy your lease out and save a couple bucks. What's the hang up with 'renting' or 'owning' it?

[OG///M]

Originally Posted by Rewted

Obviously. But there are certainly more visually appeal domesticated animals I'd be riding, it's quite the shock to see a set of donkey teeth on wheels!

Joking aside, we has humans have difficulty accepting change and often find comfort in the norm. A lot of consumers feel this change is just too drastic. Admittedly it has grown on me a little.

While I sort of agree, the difficulty to accept change part has been used as rationale a lot here.

Let's imagine an alternate universe BMW made the G8x classy/elegant while still looking aggressive and muscular. Instead of abandoning, they evolved the heritage design cues and made the car look completely new/fresh. Would there still be that many complaints?
They made a conscious decision to make a serious drastic change, and in the process alienated a lot of people.

The people that can't accept it just for the fact that it was "A Change" would be complaining about any change.
What about the people that are 100% ok with change but can't get on board because THIS change was not for the better in their opinion?
To blame the backlash on change alone I feel is missing a lot of the equation here.

[Jcali86]

Originally Posted by f80er

Why wouldn't you want to save $$$ if you could? Meaning you could potentially lease and then buy your lease out and save a couple bucks. What's the hang up with 'renting' or 'owning' it?

Just realized that sounded a little condescending towards people leasing; not my intent sorry, anyone can do as they please. I just want to buy it so I can own the car and do what I want with it, I've been saving and will probably finance it, as I don't like the thought of dropping that much cash into something. So I'm technically renting it until it's paid off anyway I guess, but don't like the idea of leasing.

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by Jcali86

Just realized that sounded a little condescending towards people leasing; not my intent sorry, anyone can do as they please. I just want to buy it so I can own the car and do what I want with it, I've been saving and will probably finance it, as I don't like the thought of dropping that much cash into something. So I'm technically renting it until it's paid off anyway I guess, but don't like the idea of leasing.

I agree with you. My thought is, if I spec it with everything that I want, it should last 5+ years no problem. And a car that is highly specced + keeping it for more than 3 years, financing/buying is a no brainer vs. leasing from a financially responsible POV

[f80er]

Originally Posted by Jcali86

Just realized that sounded a little condescending towards people leasing; not my intent sorry, anyone can do as they please. I just want to buy it so I can own the car and do what I want with it, I've been saving and will probably finance it, as I don't like the thought of dropping that much cash into something. So I'm technically renting it until it's paid off anyway I guess, but don't like the idea of leasing.

Yeah I don't know man, leasing with BMW is super easy to get in and out of. Easier than any other car and with the high residuals and fair amount of incentives it makes it a no brainer for most of us regardless if we can afford to buy it outright or finance it. Look at it this way if you lease or buy you are going to drop cash into it. Leasing you will know (exactly) how much cash will be dropped along with having the ability (and drop less cash) to get out of it with ease if you wanted to.

If I were you I would run the numbers when it comes time to purchase and make a decision then. I doubt there will be many deals on the first run of them anyway so I guess it depends on when you decide to move on one.

[Jcali86]

Originally Posted by f80er

Yeah I don't know man, leasing with BMW is super easy to get in and out of. Easier than any other car and with the high residuals and fair amount of incentives it makes it a no brainer for most of us regardless if we can afford to buy it outright or finance it. Look at it this way if you lease or buy you are going to drop cash into it. Leasing you will know (exactly) how much cash will be dropped along with having the ability (and drop less cash) to get out of it with ease if you wanted to.

If I were you I would run the numbers when it comes time to purchase and make a decision then. I doubt there will be many deals on the first run of them anyway so I guess it depends on when you decide to move on one.

A lot of good points; I really I appreciate the input, and I'll make sure to run the numbers but yeah, planning to buy an xdrive comp the millisecond I'm able to, so whatever the dealer gives as the best offer I guess!