[Gunnerforlife]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

I think it is suffering from being called a CSL. I think if this was the 50th anniversary car or something like that, it would be much better received.

I think so too. it seems that some reviewers are split on what a CSL actually means. Is it supposed to be a hardcore track car like a GTS like Jethro said or is it supposed to be the ultimate road car. I think it's supposed to do both with poise and precision and I believe it delivers.

I also think it's a weird decision by BMW to not give them the full bucket seats and give some of them 4s tires which will limit the feel and limits of the car so hopefully when they go on the track we get the full reviews.

Overall I always thought that Steve Sutcliffe has one of the most balanced car reviews out there and I think he was the most accurate in his assessment of the CSL him and Matt Saunders. Some of the others are just trying to be controversial. Bring back the GTS really?! then they'll all say it's too hardcore lol.

[RPM33]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

This is brutal...

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/...to/first-drive

In 2017, I bought a DCT base M2 and in 2021 I bought a 2020 DCT M2 CS. They are at least 90% the same car. Same chassis, interior, etc.

The reviewer is basically saying the M4 CSL is a glorified M4 Competition which it kinda is: same chassis, engine, interior, transmission, etc.

If you are not happy with the car just trade it in. No big deal. Good luck to you.

[swampfox94]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

[COLOR="Sienna"]Overall, the BMW M3 and M4 were the biggest drivers of growth last year, according to BMW, even though we’re not being given any exact numbers just yet. “The response to the new generation of the BMW M3 and BMW M4 has been simply overwhelming,” reports Timo Resch, Vice President Customer, Brand and Sales at BMW M GmbH. “We can therefore expect demand for these iconic sports cars to continue on an upward curve in 2022.”[/COLOR]

2022 AWD sales have also been solid.

And now people are ordering their 2023 LCI and CSL models.

What do you expect the bmw exec to say? Lol "yea these are selling like crap" no concrete numbers so that statement means nothing

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by KoenG

And who is "WE"? You personally ventilate the thought of all the G8x buyers?

When I would have a purpose for a G8x in my life, I would probably buy one in spite of its looks. Just because I believe it drives stellar and finally that's what matters most. But I would still wish it didn't look the way it does.

And you don't think you're an anomaly?

Most people won't spend $40,000+ on any vehicle they don't think looks good, let alone $80k, unless they have a fleet and can afford to have a perceived "ugly duckling" that simply serves a purpose. Purchasing a G80 isn't akin to buying a minivan because of its impressive utility. Yes, there may be a few G8X owners who fit into this category ("I just want the best performing sedan with 4 doors and I don't care how it looks"), but they are certainly in the minority.

So "we" are the current G8X owners who proudly post pix of our cars regularly, because we think it looks good.

And of course many of us still mod the car because it can look "better", but we like the canvas we're starting with...else it would never leave the lot.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by swampfox94

What do you expect the bmw exec to say? Lol "yea these are selling like crap" no concrete numbers so that statement means nothing

Point taken.

Then let's wait for the official figures.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

Overall, the BMW M3 and M4 were the biggest drivers of growth last year, according to BMW, even though we’re not being given any exact numbers just yet. “The response to the new generation of the BMW M3 and BMW M4 has been simply overwhelming,” reports Timo Resch, Vice President Customer, Brand and Sales at BMW M GmbH. “We can therefore expect demand for these iconic sports cars to continue on an upward curve in 2022.”

2022 AWD sales have also been solid.

And now people are ordering their 2023 LCI and CSL models.

The next paragraph.

"Another couple of successful products were the BMW X5 M Competition and X6 M Competition. Both cars improved on their previous performance and added up to a great 2021. M Performance models played an important role too, particularly popular being the variants of the new BMW 4 Series Coupé, whose line-up consists of the BMW M440i Coupe and BMW M440i xDrive Coupe as well as the BMW M440d xDrive Coupe. Right behind those you’ll find the BMW X3 M40i as well as the BMW X7 M50i."

Give us the numbers for each model BMW, like you did in the past. The websites that have databases for past models is quite nice.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

And you don't think you're an anomaly?

Most people won't spend $40,000+ on any vehicle they don't think looks good, let alone $80k, unless they have a fleet and can afford to have a perceived "ugly duckling" that simply serves a purpose. Purchasing a G80 isn't akin to buying a minivan because of its impressive utility. Yes, there may be a few G8X owners who fit into this category ("I just want the best performing sedan with 4 doors and I don't care how it looks"), but they are certainly in the minority.

So "we" are the current G8X owners who proudly post pix of our cars regularly, because we think it looks good.

And of course many of us still mod the car because it can look "better", but we like the canvas we're starting with...else it would never leave the lot.

Even you are not "we" ventilating owners thoughts. It's just your own thought, it's still ugly like it was at the launch, and that's my thought btw... and it still carries. Still an epic car though. BTW, don't want to insult, because I deeply admire all G8x as the most splendid and prestine ride I ever drove in my entire life. Just don't connect to the thought that when you own or admire you also adore the looks. I would own, but not because of it's looks.

[KevinM]

Somewhat divided opinions, but overall positive. I think it is pretty brave for M to offer a CSL with a slower "all-important" 0-60/62 mph time but significantly improved track performance. I suspect those who are buying the car for its intended purpose will be very happy.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Gunnerforlife

DCT used to hesitate sometimes.

It queues the next gear (up v down) based on driver input. So that's more user error than anything else. If it hesitates you are asking for something that doesn't make sense.

I think they've done a great job on this M4CSL. All the G8x cars are immensely capable. Not my cup of tea but they are quite an achievement and for most customers likely a huge improvement over previous models.

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by Davil

It queues the next gear (up v down) based on driver input. So that's more user error than anything else. If it hesitates you are asking for something that doesn't make sense.

I think they've done a great job on this M4CSL. All the G8x cars are immensely capable. Not my cup of tea but they are quite an achievement and for most customers likely a huge improvement over previous models.

The G8x definitely drive better than previous gens. That said, while the G80 and G81 look good, the G82 and G83 don't impress me looks-wise. I understand that this G gen, the 4 door sedan M3 retook the sales crown from the M4 - surely because of looks?

Re the DCT, if Gunner is talking about hesitancy, I'm assuming he's referring to driving in auto and not manual? If that's the case, get the ZF8 - it's a much better auto. But machine gun shifting the DCT is something else when you're shifting manually under heavy acceleration.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by Jason60051

Regardless of looks which are 100% subjective can't we all agree that bmw is producing some epic performance cars. I mean let's stop the hatred of looks…and let's look deeper then the outer skin of the vehicle. I understand the controversial design language but things change. What hasn't changed with BMW is their fanatical engineering.

Basically, “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder” and “Don’t judge a book by it’s cover”, and “Wait until you get to know them” all in the same paragraph.

[Steve Gill]

Carwow have posted a video now -

[TractionControlDelete]

Originally Posted by Steve Gill

Carwow have posted a video now -

The CSL is killer from a roll

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

This is brutal...

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/...to/first-drive

I would say honest and not biased like 99% of the international press.
For years now I have only read and trusted British reviews both for cars and motorbikes (Top Gear and EVO for cars, MCN for motorbikes), just as I only watch sports events streamed on British channels. Everything else simply sucks.

[ClubsportJunkie]

Originally Posted by Steve Gill

Carwow have posted a video now -

Surprise, surprise, the consistent thread I'm seeing with the reviews and this video is that you really need the Cup2R's.

It's funny that the GT3 in this video should have the Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport R's when the CSL has 4S'. Really annoying that Matt doesn't address that, especially considering the launch problems it had.

Looks like Misha called it

[somer]

M3 CS will be the car that makes more sense for more people.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

I would say honest and not biased like 99% of the international press.
For years now I have only read and trusted British reviews both for cars and motorbikes (Top Gear and EVO for cars, MCN for motorbikes), just as I only watch sports events streamed on British channels. Everything else simply sucks.

Of course it's biased - the article is written by a guy who despises anything that's heavy. He'd have seen CSL and said it's too heavy to qualify for the badge. Also, it's just one guy's opinion - opinions are like a**holes - everybody has got one. Doesn't mean a thing.

I will form my own opinion when I actually get to drive one and I'd say there's a LOT of confirmation bias going on in this thread. But from what I've read, this car has the potential to be right up my street.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by Gunnerforlife

I don't know who this Top Gear guy is, but he seems all over the place and not really aware of what the CSL is trying to achieve. His article is also missing a lot of key points that the others covered. Saying that the performance gains are only from the Cup2R tires is ridiculous and clearly of someone who does not have very good feel of the different cars. I drove both and own a CSL and the M4 CSL even on 4s is significantly quicker than an M4 C. Also saying that there's delay on the downshifts or missed shift is not accurate and no body else said that. The CSL never missed a downshift so far with me, where as my M2 CS DCT used to hesitate sometimes. I like the DCT, but the shift in the CSL is as fast if not faster than an M2 CS. The CSL was made to be a monster on track and still enjoyed on the road. Not a road only or a track only car.

Yes, I agree. Think Autocar expresses this very well. And even the Top Gear review which is very negative admits that the car is better than an M4 Comp, which we all know is a great bit of kit.

[swampfox94]

Carwow just did some (pointless) drag races against the gt3. Csl is a good car but it seems to be let down by the gearbox when running against the gt3

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

OK, good point.

A little dated, but how about this info? https://www.bmwblog.com/2022/01/13/b...rd-sales-2021/

Originally Posted by KevinGS

Overall, the BMW M3 and M4 were the biggest drivers of growth last year, according to BMW, even though we’re not being given any exact numbers just yet. “The response to the new generation of the BMW M3 and BMW M4 has been simply overwhelming,” reports Timo Resch, Vice President Customer, Brand and Sales at BMW M GmbH. “We can therefore expect demand for these iconic sports cars to continue on an upward curve in 2022.”

2022 AWD sales have also been solid.

And now people are ordering their 2023 LCI and CSL models.

We need to read between the lines here. It’s important to note that there is a 1~2 year hiatus in M3/M4 production between model generations, the break being longer on the M3 because the 3-series transition to the new chassis before the 4-series does. So it’s not surprising the M3 and M4 are the biggest source of growth in M-car sales, because there were no M3/M4 produced the year(s) prior. We’ll have to wait for the actual production figures to know the true story. However, I believe BMW has expanded the market appeal of the G8X with a broader offering with the introduction of X-Drive models and the wagon, which could lead to greater sales overall volumes than prior generations.

[ptgltw]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

So I've been thinking about the reviews and this car a lot. It reminds me of the reviews we saw back in 2011 for the Cayman R. The weight of expectation because the car carried the R badge was ridiculous but the car itself was sweet. A sensational bit of kit, that for me was a great road car and brilliant on track.

This car is suffering from being named CSL, but if you read all of the reviews so far, it's clear that this is a genuinely brilliant car. It doesn't break your back while getting to the track, you can enjoy it on the track and it's everyday usable.

The hate this car gets for looks is bizarre. It really looks fine IRL. The new 992 GT3 looks like it's try to puke a smaller car out of the front of it but nobody mentions that and to be fair I think it's more than bearable too!

A CSL badge isn't to be taken lightly for sure. The CSL badge is supposed to be an unquestioned success. History is on the line with a CSL. You pay for it's badge and in this case you pay handsomely. You expect it to blow your away. 50th anniversary car. Did it? I'm sure the owners will say yes. It will be interesting to see how many deals fall through at over MSRP now. MSRP is the right price for this car. It will be interesting to see where she lands price wise in 4 years time.

Looks are always subjective for sure. I don't mind the looks, I do mind the size of cars in general these days. I think the 992 GT3 looks more offensive then this car. But the size of both cars just made me buy a 964 and a GT4 RS.

We can never go back in time and these manufacturers are working within the lines they are dealt. I just don't like where the lines are headed.

The last great playful and sized right M car IMO is the M2 CS and the last great 911 IMO is the 991.2 GT3 Touring. I am lucky enough to own them both. Yes I'm biased

But fear not, when we see the M4 CSL on the road we will stare and ask questions and most likely enjoy what we have just seen. We get to enjoy but don't have to pay for the right to do so.

It's a great effort by BMW and I applaud them for it. I might have changed a few things for sure but can't please everyone.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by TractionControlDelete

The CSL is killer from a roll

Turbo engines do have an advantage on roll races due their fat power curves, there is no denying that.

However, the way CarWOW stages its races puts the GT3 at a disadvantage due to the selected gears and does not properly depict the performance difference between these two cars. The pull from 50mph in 3rd gear has the GT3 lugging at 4,300rpm, less than half of its redline and well below the meat of the power band. The result would have been different if the GT3 would have been in 2nd gear instead @ 5,900rpm. Even the 40mph pull would have been different if the GT3 would in 1st @ 7,500rpm. Not saying the GT3 would necessarily be in front, but at least there would much less gap.