[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

Their engineering quality is unquestioned. However, engineering operates within defined parameters. On these cars M's engineering obsession for weight control and even transmission experience has changed from previous generations - and both of these deliberately engineered factors have been pinged in these reviews. It's not surprising then that some find their personal preferences outside the intentionally engineered envelope. That said, I feel the M engineers seem uncannily capable of hitting their briefs.

I do feel however the current exterior design lets their great engineering down. I'm sure M engineers must be frustrated after they engineer these great cars only for the exterior design to distract and grab the headlines. If M engineers weren't as good as they are, M would be in a world of hurt right now.

I’m not so sure they have that much control over the weight. The base cars are heavy as well, and they’re not going to cut creature comforts etc for the ‘normal’ M’s at least. According to C&D the latest M440x is 4169 lbs, quite a bit heavier than the M4x (they list 3979 lbs). They do what they can but you can’t expect them to cut 700 lbs out of that while also improving rigidity, cooling, etc.

[KevinGS]

I do feel however the current exterior design lets their great engineering down. I'm sure M engineers must be frustrated after they engineer these great cars only for the exterior design to distract and grab the headlines. If M engineers weren't as good as they are, M would be in a world of hurt right now.

Yet the car is selling well, and often above MSRP, with many people waiting up to a year to get one.

And if you think that 99% of us are buying the G8X in spite of how it looks, you're sadly mistaken. We're buying the G8X in many ways because of how it looks.

"Great things are not accomplished by those who yield to trends and fads and popular opinion." - Jack Kerouac

[swampfox94]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

Yet the car is selling well, and often above MSRP, with many people waiting up to a year to get one.

And if you think that 99% of us are buying the G8X in spite of how it looks, you're sadly mistaken. We're buying the G8X in many ways because of how it looks.

[COLOR="Blue"]"Great things are not accomplished by those who yield to trends and fads and popular opinion."

Jack Kerouac[/COLOR]

So tired of this take. What semi decent car doesn't have a wait list right now? You can argue on other metrics cuz the g80/2 are great cars but using this doesn't prove anything.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by swampfox94

So tired of this take. What semi decent car doesn't have a wait list right now? You can argue on other metrics cuz the g80/2 are great cars but using this doesn't prove anything.

OK, good point.

A little dated, but how about this info? https://www.bmwblog.com/2022/01/13/b...rd-sales-2021/

[M3WC]

That Top Gear review is harsh.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

OK, good point.

A little dated, but how about this info? https://www.bmwblog.com/2022/01/13/b...rd-sales-2021/

That makes sense, each year M sales data now includes each new M-lite model added to lineup.

[swampfox94]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

OK, good point.

A little dated, but how about this info? https://www.bmwblog.com/2022/01/13/bmw-m-record-sales-2021/

Bmw reclassified all M-lite to m models so again doesn't mean anything when x3 m40 probably outsells the m3+4+5 at any given time

[Reddevils7]

For anyone thinking about buying this car in the future when the owner tries to flip it maybe think twice.

https://youtu.be/uMt44gMgMJ4

Car has less than 100 miles and he's beating on it and redlining out the parking lot lmao so much for breaking it in. Car also doesn't have the proper csl buckets. He said the American cars don't have the helmets that's dumb.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by M3WC

That makes sense, each year M sales data now includes each new M-lite model added to lineup.

Originally Posted by swampfox94

Bmw reclassified all M-lite to m models so again doesn't mean anything when x3 m40 probably outsells the m3+4+5 at any given time

Overall, the BMW M3 and M4 were the biggest drivers of growth last year, according to BMW, even though we’re not being given any exact numbers just yet. “The response to the new generation of the BMW M3 and BMW M4 has been simply overwhelming,” reports Timo Resch, Vice President Customer, Brand and Sales at BMW M GmbH. “We can therefore expect demand for these iconic sports cars to continue on an upward curve in 2022.”

2022 AWD sales have also been solid.

And now people are ordering their 2023 LCI and CSL models.

[Sunnystone]

Id say the G8x is epic, whether in RWD or Xdrive. Its a hell of a machine but i gotta say the CSL does feel luke warm and just not enough to warrant the badge.It just doesnt feel like a car that shoukd be representing 50yrs of M.

Simply strapping xdrive to it isnt the answer either but i reckon tbeyve possibly mis-used the CSL monika. Hhhmm

[kjx]

Originally Posted by Sunnystone

Id say the G8x is epic, whether in RWD or Xdrive. Its a hell of a machine but i gotta say the CSL does feel luke warm and just not enough to warrant the badge.It just doesnt feel like a car that shoukd be representing 50yrs of M.

Simply strapping xdrive to it isnt the answer either but i reckon tbeyve possibly mis-used the CSL monika. Hhhmm

Don't disagree but what would you have wanted to see in the CSL?

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

This is brutal...

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/...to/first-drive

Indeed:

"It reeks of being a convenient marketing opportunity from the same tone-deaf product planning department that brought you the XM."

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by kjx

Don't disagree but what would you have wanted to see in the CSL?

BMW should have built it from the upcoming M2.

[TargaM2]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

This is brutal...

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/...to/first-drive

Brilliantly honest & knowledgable review.
The fact is that 'M' now stands for marketing.
The idea that a car/truck such as the 'XM' even exists pretty much says it all.

[HudsonHornett]

Another positive review here:

https://www.whatcar.com/news/2022-bm...d-specs/n24985

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by TargaM2

Brilliantly honest & knowledgable review.
The fact is that 'M' now stands for marketing.
The idea that a car/truck such as the 'XM' even exists pretty much says it all.

Ollie Kew, knowledgable? Maybe? Don't think I typically agree with his reviews though. Except Caterhams, he's right that they are awesome but that's about it!

[TargaM2]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

Ollie Kew, knowledgable? Maybe? Don't think I typically agree with his reviews though. Except Caterhams, he's right that they are awesome but that's about it!

No idea who Ollie Kew is & don't care as I haven't watched/followed Top Gear since it became an international franchise, or any review at all coming out of the USA if I can help it, but that review I just read is spot on imo & applicable to most current M cars.
Oh & I quite like the CSL (given what they had to work with they did a reasonable job imo), but it's nice to hear from someone not spruking marketing bullshit.
Bring on the fanboy excuse makers.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by TargaM2

No idea who Ollie Kew is & don't care as I haven't watched/followed Top Gear since it became an international franchise, but that review I just read is spot on imo & applicable to most current M cars.
Bring on the fanboy excuse makers.

He's the guy that wrote the article. He's not somebody who just writes up about how the car drives but instead attaches history to it. He'd have been one of those people saying the Cayman R isn't an R and shouldn't have been given the R badge, whereas I'd be like "what is this thing like to drive?"

As a car enthusiast the most important element attribute of what I'd call a "good" car is - how does it handle? followed by things like feel, engagement, noise, pace and finally how it looks and makes me feel. I reckon the CSL will do well on most of those fronts - I'm not obsessing about the fact that it weighs 1625kg and therefore isn't particulalrly "leichtbau"- Ferrari's F12 probably weighs about that and it's spectacular to drive, so whatever.

[TargaM2]

I gathered he was the author of the article, my point (which seems to have gone over your head) was I don't know/care about who wrote it or what their history is, the fact is it's an honest & insightful write up imo (very rare & refreshing from anyone in the USA) & it's extremely applicable to what BMW M are currently producing.
As I stated I quite like the CSL, yes it would have been much better without a torque converter auto & if it was nearer 1500kg, but given what they had to work with I think they did a great job. We're lucky to still be getting cars such as these.
I'd like to see a similar philosophy applied to the new M2.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

So I've been thinking about the reviews and this car a lot. It reminds me of the reviews we saw back in 2011 for the Cayman R. The weight of expectation because the car carried the R badge was ridiculous but the car itself was sweet. A sensational bit of kit, that for me was a great road car and brilliant on track.

This car is suffering from being named CSL, but if you read all of the reviews so far, it's clear that this is a genuinely brilliant car. It doesn't break your back while getting to the track, you can enjoy it on the track and it's everyday usable.

The hate this car gets for looks is bizarre. It really looks fine IRL. The new 992 GT3 looks like it's try to puke a smaller car out of the front of it but nobody mentions that and to be fair I think it's more than bearable too!

I think it is suffering from being called a CSL. I think if this was the 50th anniversary car or something like that, it would be much better received.

[Gunnerforlife]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

He's the guy that wrote the article. He's not somebody who just writes up about how the car drives but instead attaches history to it. He'd have been one of those people saying the Cayman R isn't an R and shouldn't have been given the R badge, whereas I'd be like "what is this thing like to drive?"

As a car enthusiast the most important element attribute of what I'd call a "good" car is - how does it handle? followed by things like feel, engagement, noise, pace and finally how it looks and makes me feel. I reckon the CSL will do well on most of those fronts - I'm not obsessing about the fact that it weighs 1625kg and therefore isn't particulalrly "leichtbau"- Ferrari's F12 probably weighs about that and it's spectacular to drive, so whatever.

I don't know who this Top Gear guy is, but he seems all over the place and not really aware of what the CSL is trying to achieve. His article is also missing a lot of key points that the others covered. Saying that the performance gains are only from the Cup2R tires is ridiculous and clearly of someone who does not have very good feel of the different cars. I drove both and own a CSL and the M4 CSL even on 4s is significantly quicker than an M4 C. Also saying that there's delay on the downshifts or missed shift is not accurate and no body else said that. The CSL never missed a downshift so far with me, where as my M2 CS DCT used to hesitate sometimes. I like the DCT, but the shift in the CSL is as fast if not faster than an M2 CS. The CSL was made to be a monster on track and still enjoyed on the road. Not a road only or a track only car.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

We're buying the G8X in many ways because of how it looks.

And who is "WE"? You personally ventilate the thought of all the G8x buyers?

When I would have a purpose for a G8x in my life, I would probably buy one in spite of its looks. Just because I believe it drives stellar and finally that's what matters most. But I would still wish it didn't look the way it does.