[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR

If it's so easy they should have done it. BMW engineers should be able to build a chassis that is able to complete with the Alpha and Alpha 2 platforms but they don't. CLAR is a solid architecture but it needs improvements. At the end of the day the M4 Competition should be solidly in 7:20s.

992 C2S is barely in the 7:20s. I think your expectations are pretty high for a car of this segment and price. If you look at the Ring time prediction threads, the M4C’s lap time is significantly ahead of what most people forecasted.

[shoei]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

992 C2S is barely in the 7:20s. I think your expectations are pretty high for a car of this segment and price. If you look at the Ring time prediction threads, the M4C’s lap time is significantly ahead of what most people forecasted.

Agreed. The fucking M5CS is 7:29, lol. Legit said it before say it again, this obsession with M5 times compared to M3 is just dumb. You think BMW gonna let the M3 best M5/M8 times? Again, stop comparing the new M3 to the now outdated M5, lol. It's like people don't know how cars are made. 2018 M5 was created well before 2018. 2018 would just be the first model year. Think of how old that tech is inside a F90 now compared to the G8x. By tech, I'm not referring to just the Idrive either. Im talking about all the nannies and computer controlled firing at nanoseconds technology.

It's a participation trophy at best. "bUt WiTh A tUne!!" Stop. You can go get a 2003 civic out of the junkyard, throw in a B20 crv engine, nos / turbo ecu and smoke Hypercars.

I love M3's. Before you jump on that. Started with e46. First M3 was e92. Did F80. Did F10 as well. And F90. My stage 2 tuned F80 was nowhere near close to the performance of the F90. That's the proper comparison. Same Gen same tech same shit.

I think the G80 is ridiculously impressive. But wouldn't spend my time and energy marveling about how close to F9x numbers it is. I'm more excited to see what the next Gen amg's / RS's and whatnot do to combat this. We already know the next C63 is going to be hybrid engine / drivetrain. From a sheer performance standpoint, we've all seen what Ferrari and Porsche for example have done with cross-breeds. Also can't wait to see what the G9x's will do because obviously they won't be slower than the G8x.

[3RDSECTOR]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

992 C2S is barely in the 7:20s. I think your expectations are pretty high for a car of this segment and price. If you look at the Ring time prediction threads, the M4C’s lap time is significantly ahead of what most people forecasted.

My expectations aren't high. The general expectations of this forum are too low. BMW should have benchmarked the Alpha platform then exceeded its performance. Like I said before even the Giulia Quadrifoglio is only a 1.5 seconds off the G8X and the Quadrifoglio was a F8X competitor. BMW should be faster.

[shoei]

Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR

My expectations aren't high. The general expectations of this forum are too low. BMW should have benchmarked the Alpha platform then exceeded its performance. Like I said before even the Giulia Quadrifoglio is only a 1.5 seconds off the G8X and the Quadrifoglio was a F8X competitor. BMW should be faster.

If straightline speed performance on a track you'll never race on etc etc is the most important component to you? BMW's done just fine. It's Audi I've had a problem with always having the slowest vehicle out of the "three". Every damn generation.

RS6 is so sexy but (stock) it's performance is more on par with M340/440 but priced in the M5 range.

I don't think it's expectation are too low. More so we drive what we want to drive, I'm not overly concerned someones car is faster than me. It's not why I chose my motorcycles or cars. I go with what felt best to me at the time / checked all my boxes. Always gonna be someone taller or shorter, funnier, smarter, better looking, etc. Why waste your time with all that noise? People actually buy cars so they can go around telling people they're faster?

[solstice]

I’m perfectly fine with the C2S and Camaro to have faster times, it’s always more fun to beat the supposedly faster car. That said, you don’t want to show up with a knife to a gun fight. The G8X time is perfectly positioned

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by shoei

Agreed. The fucking M5CS is 7:29, lol. Legit said it before say it again, this obsession with M5 times compared to M3 is just dumb. You think BMW gonna let the M3 best M5/M8 times? Again, stop comparing the new M3 to the now outdated M5, lol. It's like people don't know how cars are made. 2018 M5 was created well before 2018. 2018 would just be the first model year. Think of how old that tech is inside a F90 now compared to the G8x. By tech, I'm not referring to just the Idrive either. Im talking about all the nannies and computer controlled firing at nanoseconds technology.

It's a participation trophy at best. "bUt WiTh A tUne!!" Stop. You can go get a 2003 civic out of the junkyard, throw in a B20 crv engine, nos / turbo ecu and smoke Hypercars.

I love M3's. Before you jump on that. Started with e46. First M3 was e92. Did F80. Did F10 as well. And F90. My stage 2 tuned F80 was nowhere near close to the performance of the F90. That's the proper comparison. Same Gen same tech same shit.

I think the G80 is ridiculously impressive. But wouldn't spend my time and energy marveling about how close to F9x numbers it is. I'm more excited to see what the next Gen amg's / RS's and whatnot do to combat this. We already know the next C63 is going to be hybrid engine / drivetrain. From a sheer performance standpoint, we've all seen what Ferrari and Porsche for example have done with cross-breeds. Also can't wait to see what the G9x's will do because obviously they won't be slower than the G8x.

The M5CS lap was no where near as quick as it should have been; can thank the minion who didn't secure the telemetry interface and data recorder in the glove box. Christian was aiming for around 7:20. Unofficially I've seen just under 7:15 out of it.

[shoei]

Originally Posted by lemetier

The M5CS lap was no where near as quick as it should have been; can thank the minion who didn't secure the telemetry interface and data recorder in the glove box. Christian was aiming for around 7:20. Unofficially I've seen just under 7:15 out of it.

That's pretty damn impressive for a 2 ton massive family car. Fine, it had bucket seats now but I can still go load up the trunk from a Costco or ikea run.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by lemetier

The M5CS lap was no where near as quick as it should have been; can thank the minion who didn't secure the telemetry interface and data recorder in the glove box. Christian was aiming for around 7:20. Unofficially I've seen just under 7:15 out of it.

Yeah, you hinted at sub 7:20 factory time over in the M5 forum so it was a bit of a surprise to see the supertest time. Why not run a 2nd lap if the 1st was compromised? Tires and brake budget ran out

[solstice]

Originally Posted by shoei

That's pretty damn impressive for a 2 ton massive family car. Fine, it had bucket seats now but I can still go load up the trunk from a Costco or ikea run.

A 627hp $140k family car with $40k go fast parts aimed squarely at the Panny TTS…it better be that fast.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by solstice

Yeah, you hinted at sub 7:20 factory time over in the M5 forum so it was a bit of a surprise to see the supertest time. Why not run a 2nd lap if the 1st was compromised? Tires and brake budget ran out

Cost and time. If you look at the section breakdown compared to the F90 comp, he was well ahead in the CS up to the moment the equipment tried to make a run for it.

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR

My expectations aren't high. The general expectations of this forum are too low. BMW should have benchmarked the Alpha platform then exceeded its performance. Like I said before even the Giulia Quadrifoglio is only a 1.5 seconds off the G8X and the Quadrifoglio was a F8X competitor. BMW should be faster.

A ZL1 1LE is seriously compromised as a street car. We don’t have the ZL1 non-1LE time, but it could easily be 20 seconds slower.

For the premium, amenity-filled, and perfectly street-able G8x to come this close to a track car while down 140hp, 2 gear ratios, and with a similar price point is pretty remarkable.

Equip your Alpha platform car with 510hp instead of 650hp and let’s see how it does.

There’s no Sport Auto time for the QV, so we don’t know how close it truly is to the G8x.

xDrive is going to make all of these discussions moot; I expect the AWD G8x to deliver your strong 7:2x SA time.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by lemetier

Cost and time. If you look at the section breakdown compared to the F90 comp, he was well ahead in the CS up to the moment the equipment tried to make a run for it.

Would you know if this car is faster on PSC2s or did you never test it since it’s developed with Corsas?

[3RDSECTOR]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

A ZL1 1LE is seriously compromised as a street car. We don't have the ZL1 non-1LE time, but it could easily be 20 seconds slower.

For the premium, amenity-filled, and perfectly street-able G8x to come this close to a track car while down 140hp, 2 gear ratios, and with a similar price point is pretty remarkable.

Equip your Alpha platform car with 510hp instead of 650hp and let's see how it does.

There's no Sport Auto time for the QV, so we don't know how close it truly is to the G8x.

xDrive is going to make all of these discussions moot; I expect the AWD G8x to deliver your strong 7:2x SA time.

We do have a time for the non 1LE ZL1. Google is your friend. You say, "Equip your Alpha platform car with 510hp instead of 650hp and let's see how it does." News flash a TT I6 should be light enough to the point where the power to weight ratio should be similar, but BMW built a lard whale. Also, a previous gen SS 1LE (compared to the new G82) runs similar times to the Cayman GT4 at most tracks which would put its Nürburgring time at an estimated 7:35-7:37 which is pretty close to a G8X. Not bad for a 6 year old car with 420hp.

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR

We do have a time for the non 1LE ZL1. Google is your friend.

You don’t think BMW engineered a better platform than GM did with Alpha despite the G8x Sport Auto time practically matching the ZL1 *manufacturer* time with 140 horsepower less?

https://fastestlaps.com/tests/39gzg8k4dmbt

Once again, how do you think the ZL1 would’ve done with 510hp?

[3RDSECTOR]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

You don’t think BMW engineered a better platform than GM did with Alpha despite the G8x Sport Auto time practically matching the ZL1 manufacturer time with 140 horsepower less?

https://fastestlaps.com/tests/39gzg8k4dmbt

Once again, how do you think the ZL1 would’ve done with 510hp?

Read my edit.

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR

Read my edit.

A ZL1 wouldn’t know where a 650hp xDrive G8x went, 1LE or not.

What cars in this segment are lighter than the “lard whale” G8x?

[3RDSECTOR]

Originally Posted by shoei

If straightline speed performance on a track you'll never race on etc etc is the most important component to you? BMW's done just fine. It's Audi I've had a problem with always having the slowest vehicle out of the "three". Every damn generation.

RS6 is so sexy but (stock) it's performance is more on par with M340/440 but priced in the M5 range.

I don't think it's expectation are too low. More so we drive what we want to drive, I'm not overly concerned someones car is faster than me. It's not why I chose my motorcycles or cars. I go with what felt best to me at the time / checked all my boxes. Always gonna be someone taller or shorter, funnier, smarter, better looking, etc. Why waste your time with all that noise? People actually buy cars so they can go around telling people they're faster?

No one said anything about "straight-line" performance. What I'm saying is at the price point of the G8X any reasonable performance minded consumer expects more general performance from this car than it actually delivers. Not to mention BMW has the audacity to label this car a "Competition" model. Like I said it should have solidly set a 7:2X time.

Also, Audi has always been a joke so we don't count them lol.

[3RDSECTOR]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

What cars in this segment are lighter than the “lard whale” G8x?

There isn't, but BMW has position themselves as the enthusiast brand of the segment and have proudly hung their hat on that ideal for the past 60+ years. If there is a brand that should have their crap together in regards to curb weight it should be BMW. They did a solid job with the G2X in terms of weight but the G8X series feels like a project plagued by compromise.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR

No one said anything about "straight-line" performance. What I'm saying is at the price point of the G8X any reasonable performance minded consumer expects more general performance from this car than it actually delivers. Not to mention BMW has the audacity to label this car a "Competition" model. Like I said it should have solidly set a 7:2X time.

Also, Audi has always been a joke so we don't count them lol.

It improves at a similar rate as the generations before it, I don’t think any M3 buyer/fan expects any more (or less). Keep in mind that it’s not a special model just another version of the standard car. As lemetier so we’ll phrased it, this is just the beginning…

[shoei]

Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR

No one said anything about "straight-line" performance. What I'm saying is at the price point of the G8X any reasonable performance minded consumer expects more general performance from this car than it actually delivers. Not to mention BMW has the audacity to label this car a "Competition" model. Like I said it should have solidly set a 7:2X time.

Also, Audi has always been a joke so we don't count them lol.

Sorry that's my bad. "Straight line speed OR performance on a track…..". Forgot the OR and it completely changed the context of the sentence lol.

I do think it's fucking crazy the G8x is consistently over 100K. My F80 didn't come close to 100K. F9x, fine I get it. But not the M3/M4.

But I do think the car is performing pretty impressively, regardless of your comparison to older cars. You're catering to two different markets. Camaros in any trim aren't exactly comfortable. Nor are the interiors very well done. Don't think it has autonomous driving or laser guided cruise control or even massaging seats, soft close doors, etc. Do I need these things? They're nice but not anything I actively search out in my vehicles. But there are plenty of folks who might be older, who have children, who have back problems, I don't know, whatever other litany of reasons they may have but all because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for somebody else. Not everyone purchases a car because they want it to be faster than a 6 year old ZL1. Not everyone who buys a ZL1 wants massaging seats or autonomous driving. You have to remember, these cars aren't designed for us, car enthusiasts. We make up a sliver of car sales for any manufacturer. They do it for the masses, not for the car nuts like us.

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR

There isn't, but BMW has position themselves as the enthusiast brand of the segment and have proudly hung their hat on that ideal for the past 60+ years. If there is a brand that should have their crap together in regards to curb weight it should be BMW. They did a solid job with the G2X in terms of weight but the G8X series feels like a project plagued by compromise.

All projects have to contend with some level of compromise since money is always an object.

However, the spec sheet is one thing, actual realized performance is another. How can you complain about BMW M’s engineering choices when the G8x Comp beats the *CS version* of the previous model by 11 seconds, and comes within a couple of seconds of the benchmark 911 C2S?

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by McLaren720s

My theory is that the M8C and M5C with AWD already put the power down much better out of a corner than a RWD car hence there's less need for a sticky tire. It just won't improve the grip DELTA as much as on a RWD platform.
I'm not saying it won't add absolutely any benefit. It might, but when the AWD with solid tire already puts the power down well, a sticker tire makes less of a difference than on a RWD platform.

AWD improves traction, not the grip. There is difference there.

Traction is the kind of grip that support acceleration when there is not enough of it, only accounts for a small portion (low speed corner exit). Maximum G happens in brake, followed by high speed corner, where the engine power is not primary source of stress for the tire. RWD would have slightly grip advantage thanks to better weight and weight distribution.

Better tire/grip helps almost equally much for the AWD and RWD.