[M4ord]

Looks like the Germans are not on-board about banning ICE engines by 2035.

https://electrek.co/2023/03/21/eu-ge...ombustion-ban/

[MichaelB1969]

Had to look up what an e-fuel is. Interesting.

As range gets better and better, consumers will speak loudly as electric vehicles are, in my opinion, better than their ICE counterparts for the typical driver.

What will be interesting is what electric sports cars will look like in 5 to 7 years. For example, what will the all-electric Cayman be like? Will it be compelling or cause us all to sadly reminisce about the good old days of ICE engines?

Gonna be interesting to see it all unfold over the next 10 years or so.

[Forzanerazzurri]

The 2035 date is not a serious target. They'll push it and push it when they realize how absurd it is. Banning all ICE engines by that date is even close to feasible.

[madpistol]

I wish the government would stand back and let the consumer dictate the direction of the market. Consumers will buy what they want, and eventually, EVs will win out... once the technology is ready. Companies will sell whatever consumers demand. Let the companies each do R&D necessary to make this work and stop forcing artificial deadlines down their throats.

Also, ICEs are so much better. EVs are too quiet.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by madpistol

I wish the government would stand back and let the consumer dictate the direction of the market. Consumers will buy what they want, and eventually, EVs will win out... once the technology is ready. Companies will sell whatever consumers demand. Let the companies each do R&D necessary to make this work and stop forcing artificial deadlines down their throats.

Also, ICEs are so much better. EVs are too quiet.

Yes! Artificial deadline for the environment is overrated. We don't need to motivate anyone to cut CO2 and other fossil fuel impacts, people understand that already. Let's continue to subsidize the oil and gas companies (Exxon smashes profits, $56B https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/31/exxo...archterm=exxon). People are responsible, they will take the tougher road every time they are presented with a choice. Also, for-profit companies will certainly spend billions foregoing their profits at the expense of their shareholders and do R&D for the sake of finding out if it will work.

And I second the notion that EVs are too quite, no soul, no character. I want my fake engine noise out of the speakers! It makes me enjoy the car more, I can drone an EV anytime I press the gas pedal. Whoohoo!

In the meantime... Screw the UN, they don't know what they are doing, I want my ICE and eat it too!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/clima...pcc-report-15/

[Jackie Chiles]

Originally Posted by FTS

Yes! Artificial deadline for the environment is overrated. We don't need to motivate anyone to cut CO2 and other fossil fuel impacts, people understand that already. Let's continue to subsidize the oil and gas companies (Exxon smashes profits, $56B https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/31/exxo...archterm=exxon). People are responsible, they will take the tougher road every time they are presented with a choice. Also, for-profit companies will certainly spend billions foregoing their profits at the expense of their shareholders and do R&D for the sake of finding out if it will work.

And I second the notion that EVs are too quite, no soul, no character. I want my fake engine noise out of the speakers! It makes me enjoy the car more, I can drone an EV anytime I press the gas pedal. Whoohoo!

In the meantime... Screw the UN, they don't know what they are doing, I want my ICE and eat it too!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/clima...pcc-report-15/

I also turned my sarcasm rheostat up to 11, but you beat me to it!

[AP]

Yes I don’t like the way we’re being forced into adopting a technology that doesn’t work for everybody

I’m not against EVs but they don’t work for everybody and think here that’s people who cannot charge them at home or are travelling relatively large distances

People will adopt the solution that works for them best and they may be EV or it may be petrol or diesel but I do disagree with being forced down one route

In the U.K. the ban on selling new I E is 2030.
I personally think that may slip as the charging infrastructure is not up to what is required now and would need to expand at a very considerable rate to catch up and meet projected requirements

Would synthetic fuels be the answer ? Whilst they produce co2 out of the exhaust , it’s not new co2 so it’s not adding to it(assuming the fuel is produced cleanly)

I really saddens me what’s going on and the future for driving for pleasure here in the U.K. doesn’t look great to me.

I think people will push back on this more over time as this net zero really starts to impact on people’s lives.

[FTS]

On the serious side:

I do not think you are being forced into EVs now. We are given a heads up, and have several years ahead of us before we compromise our driving pleasures. In the meantime, governments are strongly encouraging companies in developing better alternative fuel sources, including hydrogen, synthetic, electric, etc. Because, if this left up to us, we will prefer to keep our pleasures intact since we don't see the impact of fossil fuels in our daily lives directly. All of the reports, modeling, calculations and predictions tell us is that the day we feel the impact of fossil fuel consumption individually on a daily basis, we will not have the chance to do anything about it.

If you don't believe in anything, you can certainly appreciate that the future, as we move forward without changing anything, is much darker than otherwise. For example, if we are on a plane, and I tell you that two out of four parachutes available don't work, would you take the chance and jump off the plane mid-air or do all you can to land it safely and intact even if you don't know how pilot a plane?

The exception I am taking here is that we should demand more from auto manufacturers. We take the easy way out, I like driving ICE, so let's make it someone else's problem to solve. It is up to us, not just governments, and certainly don't expect anything good out of companies.

[Aalfred]

While the move to EV appears to be gaining momentum, I find it ironic that its considered to be more eco friendly without taking into account the ramifications of large scale implementation. There was an article on the toxicity of Lithium Ion batteries and how they take hundreds of years. How the recycling of Li-I batteries for automakers is still not a priority. More charging stations need to be built. Not all stations are powered with renewable energy (atleast not in the US). So in essence, while the CO2 emission could be lowered, the environmental impact could be the same or even worse. If EV are in an accident and the battery is damaged, there is no way to repair them and swap them out. This leads to excessive waste and more pollution. So before we all make it mandatory, I think we should think about alternate sources and en mass to get the real picture.

[FTS]

There are issues with EV production, battery production and recycling, etc. without a doubt. It may not turn out to be the ultimate answer in the long run. However, considering all of the far more serious issues the oil and gas industry has caused on us, e.g. Exxon Valdez, BP's Deepwater Horizon, natural lands destroyed through oil leaking out of pipelines in the US, etc. The oil refineries emitting toxic gases to supply us the petroleum for our pleasures are far more dangerous.

I love my ICE cars, I have two V8s gas guzzlers and won't sell them, I raced for over two decades and loved every minute of it. And admittedly I crave an ///M for sure. But I have become a huge fan of my EV too. Does everything an ///M will do and better in many ways. All I am asking from myself and others, just don't ignore the warnings, take them seriously. And if you still want a 15 mpg, 3-sec performance car, go buy it. It is certainly your decision, as long as you give the due consideration to the alternatives.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by MichaelB1969

Had to look up what an e-fuel is. Interesting.

As range gets better and better, consumers will speak loudly as electric vehicles are, in my opinion, better than their ICE counterparts for the typical driver.

What will be interesting is what electric sports cars will look like in 5 to 7 years. For example, what will the all-electric Cayman be like? Will it be compelling or cause us all to sadly reminisce about the good old days of ICE engines?

Gonna be interesting to see it all unfold over the next 10 years or so.

I kinda doubt Porsche will release it if it is not compelling.

[RACE M3]

Once nuclear power becomes widely adopted EV will be the answer. I have a tesla but it’s inconvenient for long trips. At 85-95mph im lucky to drive 150-175 miles. Throw a couple bikes on the hitch and there goes another 30%

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by RACE M3

Once nuclear power becomes widely adopted EV will be the answer. I have a tesla but it’s inconvenient for long trips. At 85-95mph im lucky to drive 150-175 miles. Throw a couple bikes on the hitch and there goes another 30%

The stigma around nuclear really sucks. It's an amazing energy source that is incredibly friendly to the environment as well.

[Sedan_Clan]

Mark my words, there won't be a transition to EV-for-everybody. It's just not feasible and we don't have the infrastructure to handle a 100% EV reality.


P.S. Yes, California is trying to force EV's down our throats. Make no mistake about that.

[Aalfred]

Originally Posted by FTS

There are issues with EV production, battery production and recycling, etc. without a doubt. It may not turn out to be the ultimate answer in the long run. However, considering all of the far more serious issues the oil and gas industry has caused on us, e.g. Exxon Valdez, BP's Deepwater Horizon, natural lands destroyed through oil leaking out of pipelines in the US, etc. The oil refineries emitting toxic gases to supply us the petroleum for our pleasures are far more dangerous.

I love my ICE cars, I have two V8s gas guzzlers and won't sell them, I raced for over two decades and loved every minute of it. And admittedly I crave an ///M for sure. But I have become a huge fan of my EV too. Does everything an ///M will do and better in many ways. All I am asking from myself and others, just don't ignore the warnings, take them seriously. And if you still want a 15 mpg, 3-sec performance car, go buy it. It is certainly your decision, as long as you give the due consideration to the alternatives.

I agree with you that the oil and gas industry would be fighting tooth and nail to keep things the same and the pollution component is there but we need to be cautious trying to jump into the EV band wagon before fully realizing the consequences of it. The EV networks are not close to supporting this transition. Natural gas which was promoted heavily as clean energy and powered most of Europe, with nuclear energy being sidelined, has turned out to be a big political mess and funding Russias war. That leaves us with coal power as the major player and wind and solar as the next best. Europe is talking aboutp restarting its nuclear reactors while the US is thinking of shutting down its. We still need to drill oil wells to get natural gas. The people are moving towards clean energy but the stuff with lithium mines and the ethical aspects of it, the environmental destruction in mining for lithium and the toxic waste are already been overlooked. Now imagine this is happening with 10-15% EV usage. If the masses move towards 60-70% uptake, these issues would also multiply and the benefits of going green with EV might be offset with the environmental impact. So till we are able to identify a truly sustainable tech that more environmentally safe, we should not accelerate the change artificially so as to not make things worse.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by Aalfred

I agree with you that the oil and gas industry would be fighting tooth and nail to keep things the same and the pollution component is there but we need to be cautious trying to jump into the EV band wagon before fully realizing the consequences of it. The EV networks are not close to supporting this transition. Natural gas which was promoted heavily as clean energy and powered most of Europe, with nuclear energy being sidelined, has turned out to be a big political mess and funding Russias war. That leaves us with coal power as the major player and wind and solar as the next best. Europe is talking aboutp restarting its nuclear reactors while the US is thinking of shutting down its. We still need to drill oil wells to get natural gas. The people are moving towards clean energy but the stuff with lithium mines and the ethical aspects of it, the environmental destruction in mining for lithium and the toxic waste are already been overlooked. Now imagine this is happening with 10-15% EV usage. If the masses move towards 60-70% uptake, these issues would also multiply and the benefits of going green with EV might be offset with the environmental impact. So till we are able to identify a truly sustainable tech that more environmentally safe, we should not accelerate the change artificially so as to not make things worse.

Such a reasonable statement.
The liberals will certainly call for your head on a plate.

[JessM36MT]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Mark my words, there won't be a transition to EV-for-everybody. It's just not feasible and we don't have the infrastructure to handle a 100% EV reality.


P.S. Yes, California is trying to force EV's down our throats. Make no mistake about that.

Serious question about the California bit….what would people do that live in apartments with surface lot parking? Are they expected to start or end their days sitting at a charging station? Similarly for households that don’t have garage parking but rather street or driveway parking and no ability to charge overnight.
The logistics of some of this is a legitimate curiosity to me, especially with a household with many kids that will one day all be driving age.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by JessM36MT

Serious question about the California bit….what would people do that live in apartments with surface lot parking? Are they expected to start or end their days sitting at a charging station? Similarly for households that don’t have garage parking but rather street or driveway parking and no ability to charge overnight.
The logistics of some of this is a legitimate curiosity to me, especially with a household with many kids that will one day all be driving age.

That's exactly what they do. The logistics of everybody having an EV is unrealistic. Add multiple people/kids, etc., and it really becomes problematic. The questions you posed are legitimate.

[Aalfred]

Originally Posted by DO444

Such a reasonable statement.
The liberals will certainly call for your head on a plate.

Hahah… I consider myself a sensible liberal. Not all liberals are bad ya know

[Aalfred]

Just had a conversation with my brother who works in oil and gas. They r literally burning off natural gas from their wells as it costs them money to put them in storage tanks and ship them. So it’s $0 for them but the rates of natural gas the consumers pay have gone up 200-300% in Europe and Atleast 100-150% here in the US while the procurement rate has gone down significantly. Such wastage of resources but the cost that we as consumers pay didn’t go down. It’s all about profits here.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by Aalfred

Hahah… I consider myself a sensible liberal. Not all liberals are bad ya know

Originally Posted by Aalfred

Just had a conversation with my brother who works in oil and gas. They r literally burning off natural gas from their wells as it costs them money to put them in storage tanks and ship them. So it’s $0 for them but the rates of natural gas the consumers pay have gone up 200-300% in Europe and Atleast 100-150% here in the US while the procurement rate has gone down significantly. Such wastage of resources but the cost that we as consumers pay didn’t go down. It’s all about profits here.

That’s terrible, but maybe if our governments worked with the industry instead of scolding them left and right and telling everyone on earth they are evil incarnate… maybe we could find a solution?

Clearly our world is not functioning anymore. Anyway, probably not the right forum area for politicking, sorry to hear about the waste.

If they really can’t find anything to do with it, ask the US Gov. They have shown themselves to be reliable in ahem, getting rid of unwanted gas pipelines.

[M4CompConv/X7]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

The 2035 date is not a serious target. They'll push it and push it when they realize how absurd it is. Banning all ICE engines by that date is even close to feasible.

I read that California is not allowing any ICE-engined new cars by 2035. I agree that it's not rationally feasible, but California has never cared about whether something is feasible or not.
Here in Florida, we are seeing people coming in from California, New York and Massachusetts. Problem is, they argue and vote for the failed policies from the states they ran from... Sigh.