[M4ord]

I am one of the “first M” car owners and have only driven a Porsche as a valet driver 30 some odd years ago. The predominant theme of those who agree that the G80 isn’t a sports car usually point to the fact that is missing something that previous M cars had and other “true sports car”[s] still possess.

As a “first M” owner I have been impressed with how easy it is to drive a car with so much torque, cornering ability and braking power. So as I read others opinions on the this platform compared to others I can’t help but wonder if the way this car feels is due to having so much of everything that it has to have all the nanny systems because if not, then 90% of the drivers in the world would wipe out at some point during ownership. This way BMW can sell an “M car” to just about any skill level. Sell more cars with that strategy at the expense of the hardcore “race car” purist who are going to go to Porsche anyway. Just a thought.

[ASAP]

i can understand the point here ultimately but it doesn't really change anything imo... the M3 is a better "performance" vehicle than most sports cars and offers unmatched DD qualities... that essentially exactly what I am looking for

[Allerum]

Originally Posted by DO444

I didn’t realize the car had such a split personality and now you’ve got me really excited!!!

That's why in my thread I posted about Hagerty's review. They drove it at 8/10, 9/10. But when they took to 10/10s that's when they found the "sports". This car lives and breathes on the edge if your not on the edge it's relaxed.

I would classify it as sports car because it's controls are precise enough to keep it on the edge.

A luxury car does not like the edge, its screams at you to stop it and slow down, it cries about G forces.

You are a feels guys, a lot of sports car drivers are a feels person. But there are some who want performance over feels. I want the best laptime, I want the highest corner speed, the latest braking zone. I could care less how it feels to get me there, but I want to get there and that is what I want in a sports car.

[Ninetres]

Originally Posted by DO444

So,

I’ve had my m3 a week now.
Haven’t uploaded any pics or done the big story or anything.

But I have spent some time with it, and granted I am still within breakin period and not really pushing the car.

But based on my feeling driving this car… this is not a sports car. I’m comparing this directly to a 718 which is also in my garage. It’s weight plays a large part in that. I can feel it. I actually like the heft that the car has, but in terms of sportiness is doesn’t hit the mark to me.

The m3 (to me) is not a sports car, and that’s ok. I love it still. I really like what it is. It’s much more comfortable than the 718, it’s definitely faster, and it’s got really nice tech inside which I’d love to see in the Porsche. It seats 5 comfortably!

I love iDrive8 btw, and I think it’s amazing. It looks great and it works wonderfully. I think you’d have to be a little nuts to purposefully avoid id8. It’s fantastic.

Still, I just want to say this and I know that many, maybe most will disagree… but this is not a sports car. It’s a tight, fast, luxury vehicle.

Personally, I am totally ok with that.
Different cars for different purposes.
None of my family want to ride with me in the 718, but they all do in the m3. It’s a wonderful BMW, I’m super glad I have it…. but (and I was one of these people not too long ago) - anyone shopping this car for a sports car as a discount Porsche - just stop.

I don’t think you are going to get what you are looking for, at least not in the g80 stock. The m3 does nothin for me when I want to drive for the sake of driving. It’s a totally different feeling driving the 718 and the m3 and I imagine that stands true for the 992 vs the m3.

As has been said, the comparisons make no sense. Speed in a straight line is only one factor and while the m3 is great at that…

I’d argue anyone looking for sport car vibes is better off in a number of other vehicles, many less expensive, if they can’t find a 718 or a 911 in the budget. I think older tuned civics give more of a sport car / track vibe than the g80 does stock.

Tuned, modified g80… idk. But that weight is a real issue. Stock this car is just pure luxury to my senses. It doesn’t tingle the sporty nerves the same way the 718 does, at all.

My family loves the car though (m3) and I do too. It’s fantastic for what it is, and I’m really glad to have it in the garage. These are obviously my own feelings based on my hands, feet, and nervous system. (I don’t know why we need to make declarations like that these days but it seems we do, so I did.)

I suppose the carbon fiber buckets might change a bit of the impression I have, but I think the entire setup of the car, the way that you sit, the driving angle, the view from the inside, the interior and of course the car itself… it just doesn’t feel like a car designed to race. It feels like a car designed to travel roads with luxury, refinement, and yes speed of course.

This is how I perceive the m3 after a week. Please don’t let these words inflame you. This is not an attack on you or the car or BMW. I love my new m3. I really do, but I was someone cross shopping a Porsche sports car (718/911) versus the m3 and I fully understand why people say it makes no sense.

I don’t think one or the other is better, but they are different in ways that you can’t really make up for. To be honest, I think if you can only have one car - get the Porsche. It’s luxurious enough and it’s a car that feels like it wants to race. It makes you feel like a race car driver in it. The BMW, to my senses at least, is not that and while I’m glad to have both… if I could only have one I’d want to have the Porsche because it better scratches that itch. I don’t see myself taking the m3 out for spirited drives too often because even though it is definitely fast... it just doesn’t hit me like that.

But, I do see myself actually driving it more often than the Porsche because of it’s utility, looks, comfort, ease of speed. For one thing, it’s nice to have a real trunk again. I mean that sincerely, it’s so nice.

Awesome to have both.
Just wanted to put this out there to people who are thinking the m3 is going to be this great sports car that will make you forget about a 911 and save you some cash while you are at it.

I don’t see that being the case.
At the same time, anything can be raced and will the g80 do well, I’m sure it will. This is just the difference in how this car feels to me. If I had to put the m3 in one category, sports car or luxury vehicle, it’s going in luxury vehicle.

If you think I’m wrong, please do reply but try to remember that I am not saying any of this to hurt anyone here. I like my m3. I’m keeping it. If you think I’m wrong I’d love to hear why. I’ll listen.

I largely agree and that's exactly what I was looking for when I made the purchase. My only contention would be that a 718 comparison at any level is asinine. COMPLETLY different cars. The g80 in my garage replaced a 2019 Audi A5 Sportback (great car) and the g80 is exponentially sportier than the Audi. But overall yes, big, comfortable, luxury 5 seater car that can out-accelerate, and out-corner nearly everything [everything?] in its actual class--Sedans.

Disclaimer--Only read the 1st post.

[JM322]

Originally Posted by DO444

Very excited for this possibility.
You’re probably right.

I haven’t put the car in M yet.
Maybe I am wrong, and I hope so!

At the risk of stating the obvious the m1 and m2 are just memory settings for however they’re configured

But driving in comfort/efficient the car is like a regular 3 series. Totally different in sport/sport plus everything with or without MDM/traction. Feels and sounds completely different.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i can understand the point here ultimately but it doesn't really change anything imo... the M3 is a better "performance" vehicle than most sports cars and offers unmatched DD qualities... that essentially exactly what I am looking for

I get what you are saying too, and I agree.
It absolutely is a performer. No doubt. It’s a very nice cabin to be in and the performance is beyond anything else in my garage, by far. A great DD for sure.

I think in the case of the m3 the way it goes about moving at normal speeds is… maybe less visceral than I was anticipating, very comfortable though. A continent crusher rather than a mountainous twisty backroad friend. It’s ultra composed, quite comfortable, ultra fast. A very, very good car. The stereo is actually very good. So much better than the Porsche. The g80 is way more comfortable, faster, a better built car all around imo. It’s just not quite as fun to drive at more pedestrian speeds, as I see it.

It’s supercar like competent, to me at least (having never been in a supercar).

I think I might think of this car as a baby m5. I guess I should drive a new 2 series someday as I have heard countless times the 2 series is the new 3 series. Someone else had said something to the effect that the g80 is more like the m5, and I think that sounds about right to me. I never thought of the m5 as a sports car either, but it has blistering performance and is a wonderful place to be.

I like the g80, but in a different way than I expected. I feel quite… protected (from everything) in the m3 lol. Probably one of the best DD on the planet. It feels a bit big, but I don’t mind it and I wanted the extra seats. I don’t think this car belongs in the sports car category, which is not a knock on the car at all. It’s very, very good at what it is and does.

People say it has a dual character and in M mode it comes alive, so I’m excited to feel that once out of break in. It’s a little hard to imagine this car as being what you want to toss into corners… speed is definitely not the issue here. It has speed in spades.

It could also be that this car’s limits are so high that I don’t reach them and wouldn’t feel comfortable testing them. The 718 is only 300hp, but going around a corner at 60mph is thrilling and at 80 it can be mildly terrifying. It feels like you’re in a cockpit of sorts and it’s fun. Going 100 in the 718 is a bit scary. It’s not scary at all, not at all in the g80. It’s actually nothing really. It’s so competent it doesn’t even register as an event.

I’ve heard multiple times that it feels lighter at speed, that it wakes up where other cars are at the limit. I might not have the constitution to really push this car on a road. Maybe I misspoke and it is more of a race car at speed and needs a track. I can almost see that and almost feel how that would be so, just because of how quickly it accelerates. Not sure I have the constitution for that level of performance. I would def want to have a helmet on. It’s very, very quick.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by Allerum

That's why in my thread I posted about Hagerty's review. They drove it at 8/10, 9/10. But when they took to 10/10s that's when they found the "sports". This car lives and breathes on the edge if your not on the edge it's relaxed.

I would classify it as sports car because it's controls are precise enough to keep it on the edge.

A luxury car does not like the edge, its screams at you to stop it and slow down, it cries about G forces.

You are a feels guys, a lot of sports car drivers are a feels person. But there are some who want performance over feels. I want the best laptime, I want the highest corner speed, the latest braking zone. I could care less how it feels to get me there, but I want to get there and that is what I want in a sports car.

Yea, I think this is exactly right.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by JM322

At the risk of stating the obvious the m1 and m2 are just memory settings for however they’re configured

But driving in comfort/efficient the car is like a regular 3 series. Totally different in sport/sport plus everything with or without MDM/traction. Feels and sounds completely different.

Ah, no I have not put the car in anything other than drive, well except for that one time I put in manual mode by accident and dinged the limiter in 1st.


Still getting to know the vehicle. Thank you for informing me.

[Allerum]

Originally Posted by DO444

Yea, I think this is exactly right.

So that is why the M3 is a better sports car than the 718 for me, because its faster.

But the 718 is better for you because it feels better to get around the track. But I want a lower time and don't care how it feels. I want precision and speed over feel.

Both camps are valid, but tons of people mistake how it feels for "sports", when precision and speed is also a valid category.

[Gandalf The White]

To me the M3 is the best "one car garage" you can have, it does everything extremely well.

I traded in my 987 Cayman that I had used as my daily for 7 years when getting my M3 and from a pure driving dynamic and looks perspective I would take the 987 any day, but until I have another garage space the M3 scratches the itch of a sports car that I can take on track and do a fun Saturday drive but also allows me to have my kid in the back, drive collogues and business connections to lunch/dinner and take my family to the zoo or to the airport. Most of that was not really working as well in the Cayman.

To me the M3 is like a steel sports Rolex, you can find a more suited watch for most situations, but if you can "only" have one, then it works great while wearing either a t-shirt or a tux.

[M4ord]

Originally Posted by DO444

Maybe I misspoke and it is more of a race car at speed and needs a track.

I felt this way also. So much so that I went to Spartenburg and took thier G80 and G82s around to find the limit of the car. You most certainly will not find the limits of these cars on the street. I suspect 718 limits cant be found on the street either.

[twistedspoon]

Originally Posted by BMW1983

Now that mine is a bit more broken in @ 5000 miles and I have had it up to 140mph with all settings in Sport/Sport + mode this is the most incredible machine I've owned and enjoyed. [/URL]

on a track?

[Jackie Chiles]

Originally Posted by twistedspoon

on a track?

You know, Granny, that some of us might not always obey speed limits, right?

[twistedspoon]

Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles

You know, Granny, that some of us might not always obey speed limits, right?

just curious

[Jackie Chiles]

We know that no vehicle with four doors is a sports car, but can a sports car have four seats?

Asking for a friend.

[yousefnjr]

Merriam Webster definition of a sports car:

sports car
noun

a low small usually 2-passenger automobile designed for quick response, easy maneuverability, and high-speed driving

WikiPedia is a little more loose with the definition:

A sports car is a car designed with an emphasis on dynamic performance, such as handling, acceleration, top speed, the thrill of driving and racing capability. Sports cars originated in Europe in the early 1900s and are currently produced by many manufacturers around the world.

Definition
Definitions of sports cars often relate to how the car design is optimised for dynamic-performance, without any specific minimum requirements; both a Triumph Spitfire and Ferrari 488 Pista can be considered sports cars, despite vastly different levels of performance. Broader definitions of sports cars include cars "in which performance takes precedence over carrying capacity", or that emphasise the "thrill of driving" or are marketed "using the excitement of speed and the glamour of the (race)track" However, other people have more specific definitions, such as "must be a two-seater or a 2+2 seater" or a car with two seats only.

In the United Kingdom, early recorded usage of the "sports car" was in The Times newspaper in 1919. The first known use of the term in the United States was in 1928. Sports cars started to become popular during the 1920s. The term was originally used for two-seat roadsters (cars without a fixed roof), however, since the 1970s the term has also been used for cars with a fixed roof (which were previously considered grand tourers).

Attributing the definition of 'sports car' to any particular model can be controversial or the subject of debate among enthusiasts. Authors and experts have often contributed their own ideas to capture a definition. Insurance companies have also attempted to use mathematical formulae to categorise sports cars, often charging more for insurance due to the inherent risk of performance driving.

There is no fixed distinction between sports cars and other categories of performance cars, such as muscle cars and grand tourers, with some cars being members of several categories.

So it comes down to semantics it seems. My original reply was going to be a short "your mom is a sports car" which was a funny thought to me since there seems to be no agreed upon definition and we all stretch it how we want (giggity), but I thought it better to explain it this way. I might be growing up unfortunately. Apologies.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I think you should revisit this post after break-in.

Originally Posted by DO444

I think I did a poor job explaining myself.

Yeah, it's tough. I think I understand the point you were trying to make though, but I'll suggest that your point was based on an incorrect hypothesis.

Originally Posted by Psychos1s

A Mazda Miata is a "sports car" yet I'm not sure most would consider it a real sports car.

Actually, if I had to come up with a single car that met the (in my mind) definition of a sports car, that would be it.

Now, me personally, I find the Miata to be too small, too low, too underpowered with an abysmal lack of quality in the interior plastics and very uncomfortable, so I won't own one. BUT, I grew up with convertible British sports cars with partly unsynchronized transmissions and a reluctance to start in wet, damp, nearly wet or sunshiny weather, and so that's kind of my threshold for what is a real sports car.

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

... we all stretch it how we want (giggity), but I thought it better to explain it this way. I might be growing up unfortunately. Apologies.

LOL. Thanks for the amusement.

Anywho...

I've owned multiple Porsches, including a 981 Boxster S. No puny 4 cylinder for me. The Cayman is just a Boxster with a roof, and they are tremendous cars. No doubt. For the ultimate in a responsive, great performing car that communicates everything it does to the driver with no filter, there really is nothing better. That is a sports car. The M3/M4 is a GT car.

Truly, the M3/4 is an awesome car, when I bought my second one I drove it from Northern Ohio home to NC in 11 hours, one trip, stopping only to pee, get gas and a burger somewhere in WV. It's an awesome cruiser, but yet it doesn't shine until you take it to the track and get closer to that magical 9/10ths. At that point it becomes a mind-blowing track-capable GT.

The term "sports car" is so overused, it's lost most of its meaning. My wife used to refer to her V6 Camaro as a sports car.

Sorry, no.

My archaic yet perfectly valid definition of a sports car is:
- fun to drive
- responsive, razor-sharp handling
- relatively lightweight
- manual transmission
- convertible top preferred
- typically noisy and uncomfortable

You're welcome.

[Indo Rider]

Can't believe I read 4 pages of this. "Youre mom's a sports car" was the best part, so thanks for that.

[nearwater4me]

I guess it all depends on what defines a 'sports car'.
Is the 718 'sportier' than a G8x? Definitely.

But I get what OP is trying to say.
I got the same vibe as soon as a I drove my G82.
It definitely feels more like a grand tourer than a hardcore sports car.
The added sound insulation, plush leather seats and all the tech stuff adds to that.

It's not until you redline the engine and start pushing it into corners that it feels like a true sports car. God I love the dual personality.
If I wanted a hardcore sports car, I would've gotten a Lotus.
I would dare say that 99% of the owners here weren't looking for one when they were shopping for a G8x.

[Gfit]

I know people get offended easy these days, but getting triggered because someone says the M3 isn’t a sports car has made my day.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by M4ord

I felt this way also. So much so that I went to Spartenburg and took thier G80 and G82s around to find the limit of the car. You most certainly will not find the limits of these cars on the street. I suspect 718 limits cant be found on the street either.

No probably not, but it just feels like you are ha ha.

I’m sure you are correct though.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

LOL. Thanks for the amusement.

Anywho...

I've owned multiple Porsches, including a 981 Boxster S. No puny 4 cylinder for me. The Cayman is just a Boxster with a roof, and they are tremendous cars. No doubt. For the ultimate in a responsive, great performing car that communicates everything it does to the driver with no filter, there really is nothing better. That is a sports car. The M3/M4 is a GT car.

Truly, the M3/4 is an awesome car, when I bought my second one I drove it from Northern Ohio home to NC in 11 hours, one trip, stopping only to pee, get gas and a burger somewhere in WV. It's an awesome cruiser, but yet it doesn't shine until you take it to the track and get closer to that magical 9/10ths. At that point it becomes a mind-blowing track-capable GT.

The term "sports car" is so overused, it's lost most of its meaning. My wife used to refer to her V6 Camaro as a sports car.

Sorry, no.

My archaic yet perfectly valid definition of a sports car is:
- fun to drive
- responsive, razor-sharp handling
- relatively lightweight
- manual transmission
- convertible top preferred
- typically noisy and uncomfortable

You're welcome.

I think we have the same definition and thus the different standard. GT car it is!