[DO444]

Originally Posted by vbb

People buy Caymans, Boxsters and 911s to park in the garage most days, but to take out for spirited drives on nice days, drive to date nights, and hard park at the local cars and coffees. And maybe to track.

People buy M3s and M4s as daily drivers (mostly) and to have fun, tech and style while doing it. And maybe to track.

I should know. I've owned a Cayman, a Boxster and a 911. I'm driving my M4 more than I did all of those cars combined. I guess it all depends on what you're looking for.

I think I did a poor job explaining myself.
The m3 is to me, it’s practically a super car level of ability. It’s unreal just how good this 4 door sedan is.

It’s a luxurious super sedan that puts so much speed down so fast and it handles beautifully.

I guess to me, sports car is a more raw feeling that’s all I meant. I was just kinda philosophizing on the category of car this is. It was a lighthearted thing.

I agree with your assessment as well.
It’s all up to the user as to what they want it to be.

The m3 is undoubtedly a more capable car than the 718 next to it in my garage, no question. I think that bothered some people.
It’s understandable.

[vmalho2]

Nawwwwww.... It's a fast luxury sports race car!

[JM322]

Originally Posted by DO444

I think I did a poor job explaining myself.
The m3 is to me, it’s practically a super car level of ability. It’s unreal just how good this 4 door sedan is.

It’s a luxurious super sedan that puts so much speed down so fast and it handles beautifully.

I guess to me, sports car is a more raw feeling that’s all I meant. I was just kinda philosophizing on the category of car this is. It was a lighthearted thing.

I agree with your assessment as well.
It’s all up to the user as to what they want it to be.

The m3 is undoubtedly a more capable car than the 718 next to it in my garage, no question. I think that bothered some people.
It’s understandable.

M3 is a sporty car but not a sports car? Does that capture it?

[BMW1983]

Here is a nice article on the term "sports car". By this writers research, even a hard top Porsche would be considered a "sports car" but instead a grand tourer.

Ultimately, I don't give a damn how my G80 is classified but how it performs and how it handles.

I think the OP will feel different once beyond break in and takes this machine up where it is meant to be appreciated.

Now that mine is a bit more broken in @ 5000 miles and I have had it up to 140mph with all settings in Sport/Sport + mode this is the most incredible machine I've owned and enjoyed.

I am beyond thrilled with this vehicle and I love the way it can serve so many roles in so many ways and in an excellent manner with each.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...ar-definition/

[Psychos1s]

First off, have you driven the car hard with all settings maxed out? I'm going to assume not being it's still in the break-in period? The car is a different beast when you compare efficient or sport vs Sport Plus and Transmission in D3 vs D1 etc.

Many people in the forums have said the same thing—you can't compare a Porsche to a BMW. Maybe the Panamera but comparing a 2-seater to a 5 seater is difficult. Right out of the gate they are apples to oranges. I have never driven a Porsche, therefore am going to rely on what I do know. The G8X is fast. Not just in a straight line like a one-trick pony Tesla. Some may say it's numb but it is precise and its track times prove it is a capable car. I can only assume it's the track times, general price range and both being German cars that have people comparing a Porsche to a BMW.

What defines a Sports Car? Wikipedia says, "A sports car is a car designed with an emphasis on dynamic performance, such as handling, acceleration, top speed, the thrill of driving and racing capability." In that case, a G8X in a lot of ways is more of a sports car than a lot of Porsches out there.

Webster Dictionary is probably the more general definition; a low small usually 2-passenger automobile designed for quick response, easy maneuverability, and high-speed driving.

In the latter case, the Porsche is definitely more of a sports car while the G8X is a Luxury Sports Coupe or Sedan in BMW's own terms. I do feel like Wikipedia's definition is probably where people try to put the M3/M4 into the sports car category.

I have a 2009 Audi R8 (v8 manual) and honestly feel my old F80 zCP and G80 are far more capable/precise/fast cars. But then again, that isn't what defines a sports car. A Mazda Miata is a "sports car" yet I'm not sure most would consider it a real sports car.

I will disagree with your point that, "...if you can only have one car - get a Porsche." The M3 is far more practical and as you mentioned yourself, more people want to ride in the M3 over the 718. Now if you have a daily and can only have one car for the weekend, I can see buying a 718 over a M3. But once again, that is really apples to oranges.

I honestly feel the M3/M4 is more like a Mustang GT350 (maybe 500 too), Camaro ZL1, Cadillac CT4/CT5-V Blackwing and of course Giulia Quad, AMG C63 S etc. It's a fast car you can also take a group of people in or pick up your kids and their friends from school.

Thanks for sharing your perspective. I do agree the cars are different and shouldn't be compared.

[JM322]

Originally Posted by DO444

Yea, again… I think that’s the focus all too often, speed. A bullet train smokes a 718 and an m3 and a 911 turbo s.

But, it doesn’t mean it’s fun and sporty to ride in.

I’ve been on the bullet train (passenger not driver) and I can confirm it’s awesome :-)

[1209582]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I think you should revisit this post after break-in.

my thoughts exactly. ive had this car less than a week and took it to the backroads and it just eats corners. it was begging to be pushed but i know better

glow up after 1200 is gonna be insane

[BMW1983]

Especially when another bullet train is passing you going the other direction also at 200mph! A brief blur and then nothing....

[user12464]

OP I think you also may be hung up a bit on the fact the M3 is a front engine sedan. Yes that puts it in the same category as most mundane appliance-type cars. But it doesn't make it any less capable or sporty. Many of the best sports cars ever made are also front engine, rear wheel drive. Sedan vs coupe is kinds of irrelevent all other things being equal.

That said, Cayman as a mid-engine platform is a totally different beast. Mid engine/RWD drives and feels inherently different than a front/rear platform. There is a reason why so many exotics including most Ferraris, Lambo, McLaren and of course C8 Corvette are mid engine. The engine sits right behind you. You sit so close to the engine you really feel like you are part of the car rather than sitting in it. And the handling balance and driving dynamics of a mid-engine is generally quicker and more direct. This may be the drama you are referring to. And if that's the case there probably isn't much of a remedy and prepare to spend lots of money on mostly impractical 2 seat cars lol.

[Malloy]

I agree the G8X is an ideal daily - I put 10k miles on my G80X in 7 months. Best in class x10.

The G8x will beat the 718 in a straight line and around a track. It will outbrake it too.

My e46 M3 is much slower than both cars noted above but it's more fun to drive than the G80 to me - so I get what you are saying.

Originally Posted by DO444

So,

I’ve had my m3 a week now.
Haven’t uploaded any pics or done the big story or anything.

But I have spent some time with it, and granted I am still within breakin period and not really pushing the car.

But based on my feeling driving this car… this is not a sports car. I’m comparing this directly to a 718 which is also in my garage. It’s weight plays a large part in that. I can feel it. I actually like the heft that the car has, but in terms of sportiness is doesn’t hit the mark to me.

The m3 (to me) is not a sports car, and that’s ok. I love it still. I really like what it is. It’s much more comfortable than the 718, it’s definitely faster, and it’s got really nice tech inside which I’d love to see in the Porsche. It seats 5 comfortably!

I love iDrive8 btw, and I think it’s amazing. It looks great and it works wonderfully. I think you’d have to be a little nuts to purposefully avoid id8. It’s fantastic.

Still, I just want to say this and I know that many, maybe most will disagree… but this is not a sports car. It’s a tight, fast, luxury vehicle.

Personally, I am totally ok with that.
Different cars for different purposes.
None of my family want to ride with me in the 718, but they all do in the m3. It’s a wonderful BMW, I’m super glad I have it…. but (and I was one of these people not too long ago) - anyone shopping this car for a sports car as a discount Porsche - just stop.

I don’t think you are going to get what you are looking for, at least not in the g80 stock. The m3 does nothin for me when I want to drive for the sake of driving. It’s a totally different feeling driving the 718 and the m3 and I imagine that stands true for the 992 vs the m3.

As has been said, the comparisons make no sense. Speed in a straight line is only one factor and while the m3 is great at that…

I’d argue anyone looking for sport car vibes is better off in a number of other vehicles, many less expensive, if they can’t find a 718 or a 911 in the budget. I think older tuned civics give more of a sport car / track vibe than the g80 does stock.

Tuned, modified g80… idk. But that weight is a real issue. Stock this car is just pure luxury to my senses. It doesn’t tingle the sporty nerves the same way the 718 does, at all.

My family loves the car though (m3) and I do too. It’s fantastic for what it is, and I’m really glad to have it in the garage. These are obviously my own feelings based on my hands, feet, and nervous system. (I don’t know why we need to make declarations like that these days but it seems we do, so I did.)

I suppose the carbon fiber buckets might change a bit of the impression I have, but I think the entire setup of the car, the way that you sit, the driving angle, the view from the inside, the interior and of course the car itself… it just doesn’t feel like a car designed to race. It feels like a car designed to travel roads with luxury, refinement, and yes speed of course.

This is how I perceive the m3 after a week. Please don’t let these words inflame you. This is not an attack on you or the car or BMW. I love my new m3. I really do, but I was someone cross shopping a Porsche sports car (718/911) versus the m3 and I fully understand why people say it makes no sense.

I don’t think one or the other is better, but they are different in ways that you can’t really make up for. To be honest, I think if you can only have one car - get the Porsche. It’s luxurious enough and it’s a car that feels like it wants to race. It makes you feel like a race car driver in it. The BMW, to my senses at least, is not that and while I’m glad to have both… if I could only have one I’d want to have the Porsche because it better scratches that itch. I don’t see myself taking the m3 out for spirited drives too often because even though it is definitely fast... it just doesn’t hit me like that.

But, I do see myself actually driving it more often than the Porsche because of it’s utility, looks, comfort, ease of speed. For one thing, it’s nice to have a real trunk again. I mean that sincerely, it’s so nice.

Awesome to have both.
Just wanted to put this out there to people who are thinking the m3 is going to be this great sports car that will make you forget about a 911 and save you some cash while you are at it.

I don’t see that being the case.
At the same time, anything can be raced and will the g80 do well, I’m sure it will. This is just the difference in how this car feels to me. If I had to put the m3 in one category, sports car or luxury vehicle, it’s going in luxury vehicle.

If you think I’m wrong, please do reply but try to remember that I am not saying any of this to hurt anyone here. I like my m3. I’m keeping it. If you think I’m wrong I’d love to hear why. I’ll listen.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by JM322

I’ve been on the bullet train (passenger not driver) and I can confirm it’s awesome :-)

I hated it!

[BimmerFix]

Umm no sir it’s a luxury sport sedan .. sorry it doesn’t fit your criteria.

Downright comical comparing an extremely lightweight 2 seater 718 to a 4 Door M3 tipping close to two tons

0 logic behind it , completeley different vehicles

And seriously a Cayman or even an S over an M3/M4 ? I’m good on the poor mans Porsche . Wouldn’t consider one in a million years unless its a GTS/GT4

[DO444]

Originally Posted by 1209582

my thoughts exactly. ive had this car less than a week and took it to the backroads and it just eats corners. it was begging to be pushed but i know better

glow up after 1200 is gonna be insane

Very excited for this possibility.
You’re probably right.

I haven’t put the car in M yet.
Maybe I am wrong, and I hope so!

[MrSmileyDC]

Drive enough rental cars and you’ll easily tell the difference. M3 is more of an all around car capable of many day to day activities, but still has the ability to hit some curvy roads on the weekend. If I had the garage space I’d get a python green 718 gt4 for the weekend. But since I don’t I’d have to park my incoming g80 in the driveway. First world problems.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by MrSmileyDC

Drive enough rental cars and you’ll easily tell the difference. M3 is more of an all around car capable of many day to day activities, but still has the ability to hit some curvy roads on the weekend. If I had the garage space I’d get a python green 718 gt4 for the weekend. But since I don’t I’d have to park my incoming g80 in the driveway. First world problems.

Totally.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by ChrisM3

I think once you finish break in and put the car in M2 mode (full sport settings with DCS off) you’ll be amazed at how it transforms the car.

I have a RWD manual ‘22 G80 M3 and before that a ‘21 G82 manual M4.

The car handles like it’s on rails, stops incredibly well and hazes the tires in third gear. It’s ridiculously capable.

Puttering around in standard mode waiting for your break-in service would definitely make it feel like a luxury car in comparison.

I didn’t realize the car had such a split personality and now you’ve got me really excited!!!

[wasya152]

I agree with the post. I think it's about perspective. A lot of people either don't have it and just don't know what a fun car could feel like, don't drive hard enough to know, or just get butt hurt and defensive about the g80 right away. From the fun factor, the g80 is definitely missing some of the edge and excitement. That special ///M'ness that existed before. Part of it is the zf too. Anyone that says it's as good as dct or pdk or that they can't tell the lag are either too inexperienced, don't drive hard enough, or just in denial. Yeah, the car is an amazing daily, but what it made up in daily confort and driving, it kinda lost in driving pressure. A lot of current g80 m3 owners are young and/or first time m buyers with first time buying an m3. If you have driven e46, e90, and in my case f80cs, or even the e39 and e60 m5, then you know what I'm talking about. Something was lost. Is it all bad, absolutely not. Still a great car, but is it an exciting to drive, not as much. My brother has a g80 so I've spent enough time borrowing it and driving it to know. It's super fast and capable for sure, but it doesn't tickle my balls like it should, pardon my french. 😁

But who knows. When my g80 CS arrives, I might eat my words and think it's the greatest thing ever. At least that's what I'm hoping since I walked away from the g80 the first time after having it for 24 hours.

[DisonKlaud]

Originally Posted by wasya152

I agree with the post. I think it's about perspective. A lot of people either don't have it and just don't know what a fun car could feel like, don't drive hard enough to know, or just get butt hurt and defensive about the g80 right away. From the fun factor, the g80 is definitely missing some of the edge and excitement. That special ///M'ness that existed before. Part of it is the zf too. Anyone that says it's as good as dct or pdk or that they can't tell the lag are either too inexperienced, don't drive hard enough, or just in denial. Yeah, the car is an amazing daily, but what it made up in daily confort and driving, it kinda lost in driving pressure. A lot of current g80 m3 owners are young and/or first time m buyers with first time buying an m3. If you have driven e46, e90, and in my case f80cs, or even the e39 and e60 m5, then you know what I'm talking about. Something was lost. Is it all bad, absolutely not. Still a great car, but is it an exciting to drive, not as much. My brother has a g80 so I've spent enough time borrowing it and driving it to know. It's super fast and capable for sure, but it doesn't tickle my balls like it should, pardon my french. 😁

I was a F82zcp owner, and now the G82 is waiting for shipment in a German port. I tested the G82 for less than 10 minutes before deciding to replace the F82 because of the G82's better power reserve, sound performance, front axle grip, and outrageous looks. In fact, in the past 5 years of driving F82, I don't think it is more fun than my e90 325. On the contrary, it is more of a struggle between man and car rather than the integration of man and car. But on the G82, I found this feeling again, yes, the feeling of being one with the car.

[2legit]

Agree with everything you said. I have done both the Porche and BMW performance track day and was craving the 992 carrera. However, the price is too steep. I currently own an F80 M3 (7 yrs) and recently got a G80 M3 1 month ago. I drive my F80 more than my G80 because the F80 feels sportier. G80 is a luxurious fast car and not sporty. Its a good car but i dont enjoy driving it nor its big size. I feel like I force myself to drive the G80 due to the financial commitment I have made. It's a very good car but it feels like an M5 to me.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by 2legit

Agree with everything you said. I have done both the Porche and BMW performance track day and was craving the 992 carrera. However, the price is too steep. I currently own an F80 M3 (7 yrs) and recently got a G80 M3 1 month ago. I drive my F80 more than my G80 because the F80 feels sportier. G80 is a luxurious fast car and not sporty. Its a good car but i dont enjoy driving it nor its big size. I feel like I force myself to drive the G80 due to the financial commitment I have made. It's a very good car but it feels like an M5 to me.

Thanks for saying that.
I am going to wait for the break in to be over, and give it another go… but I think that was my impression so far.

[MichaelB1969]

I just drove the M4 on track at the 2-day M School and I was super impressed. It really comes alive. Felt a lot lighter than it is. Tons and tons of grip. Precise steering. Very predictable at the limit. Brakes were very strong. It was a blast. None of the students drove M3s, although we did hot laps with the instructors in M3s.

Also drove the M2 and M5, and preferred the M4 by a WIDE margin, although the M2 was fun on the tighter autocross sessions. On the track at the Thermal Club though, the M4 was my favorite by far.

Out of curiosity, I asked 3 of the instructors what they preferred and they all said the M3.

Note that my last car was a 2019 Carrera T.

Now, I will say the Porsche was more engaging and simply “felt” better when driven hard. However, the G8X is still an absolute hoot to drive, and is by far the better all-around car in terms of comfort, utility, space, etc.

[Stockholmarn]

I'll make sure to inform my wife, she was sure this was a sports car.

She will probably be relieved to be quite honest.