[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Patton250

That’s exactly what I was saying. All that with a massive part shortage and a massive slow down in production. Have there been no COVID-19 and the shutting down of factories all over the world there would have been a lot more G80’s produced by now.

I’m not really crazy about two door cars in general. I never liked the mustang, Corvette, Camaro or even the charger. First off they are the ones that door ding everyone with their long ass doors. Second it’s just not as practical as four doors. I do like the look of the new G82 but I wish they had flared the rear fenders like they did for the G80.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I think his point is that that the 4-door G80 M3 is produced in significantly higher volumes than the 4-door F80 M3, despite the fact that overall G8X production volumes are lower than the F8X volumes for the same period. That tells us that either demand for the 4-door is higher for the G8X gen or that BMW shifted their strategy allocating more production slots to the 4-door.

In my personal case, I find the G82 M4 totally missed the mark esthetically, much more so than the G80 M3. Maybe others are like me, which could explain why for the first time the 4-door is produced in higher volumes than the 2-door.

Originally Posted by Patton250

That's exactly what I was saying. All that with a massive part shortage and a massive slow down in production. Have there been no COVID-19 and the shutting down of factories all over the world there would have been a lot more G80's produced by now.

I'm not really crazy about two door cars in general. I never liked the mustang, Corvette, Camaro or even the charger. First off they are the ones that door ding everyone with their long ass doors. Second it's just not as practical as four doors. I do like the look of the new G82 but I wish they had flared the rear fenders like they did for the G80.

I did a Google search in German and I have found two different reports on manufacturing delays for BMW and one specificially for the G8x

First this report from april that says the Regensburg factory had to close for two days due to the chip shortage. Same article also says that other German manufacturers have been hit far worse than BMW with having had to shut down for several weeks.
The Regensburg factory makes 1000 cars per day.

https://www.bimmertoday.de/2021/04/3...erbrechen/amp/

Then this second report from august that says all but the Munich factory has decreased production or going just one shift leading to 10000 vehicles not being made the next following days.

https://www.bimmertoday.de/2021/07/2...allen-bei-bmw/

Neither of these point to a «massive delay» in production for the G8x, but certainly a delay having found place.

Then this third, and most recent report from two weeks ago (october 19th), which is almost like a déjà vu to people familiar with previous BMW S-engines like the S54, S65, S85 … A bearing issue…
This time a main bearing issue discovered during quality checks with a suppler.
This has lead to a halt in production until the case is solved. So far only 25 vehicles have been affected and the problem was discovered before the cars where delivered to customers.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...er-mangelhaft/

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Almost certainly unrelated as explanation, but some customers like the practicality bonus:
Attachment 2737355

But why would it be the case only for the G8X and not for the previous generations that also offered 4-doors?

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Boss330

I did a Google search in German and I have found two different reports on manufacturing delays for BMW and one specificially for the G8x

First this report from april that says the Regensburg factory had to close for two days due to the chip shortage. Same article also says that other German manufacturers have been hit far worse than BMW with having had to shut down for several weeks.
The Regensburg factory makes 1000 cars per day.

https://www.bimmertoday.de/2021/04/3...erbrechen/amp/

Then this second report from august that says all but the Munich factory has decreased production or going just one shift leading to 10000 vehicles not being made the next following days.

https://www.bimmertoday.de/2021/07/2...allen-bei-bmw/

Neither of these point to a «massive delay» in production for the G8x, but certainly a delay having found place.

Then this third, and most recent report from two weeks ago (october 19th), which is almost like a déjà vu to people familiar with previous BMW S-engines like the S54, S65, S85 … A bearing issue…
This time a main bearing issue discovered during quality checks with a suppler.
This has lead to a halt in production until the case is solved. So far only 25 vehicles have been affected and the problem was discovered before the cars where delivered to customers.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...er-mangelhaft/

I don’t think they’re going to report everything but check out all the build week threads right here and find out how many times people have been pushed back. I ordered mine and it should’ve been done two months ago. So mine got delayed two months. 60 days. I’m not even close to the only one here that’s happened to. Yes this forum is only a microcosm of all sales but it’s still a pretty good indicator of what’s happening. Bing series for a second you are aware of the worldwide chip shortage right? I’m asking you this in a serious way. You are aware that BMW is not the only manufacturer with massive production delays? You are aware that every auto manufacturer is going through the exact same thing right? I mean this series of questions with respect.

I’ll give you some more analogies and personal antidotes that seem to be pushed aside not respected by some on this thread. Several friends of mine that have a used truck has been approached by the dealer they bought it from an offered more money to buy it back than what they paid for it originally. that’s how desperate dealerships are. When I bought my Toyota Camry hybrid 90 days ago I had to call every Toyota dealership in the state of Florida to find it. I finally found one 200 miles from my house. I wanted to buy it from my local Toyota dealership where I bought my Tacoma but they didn’t have any. They literally had 10% of the normal amount of cars on their lot then they usually have. It’s bad and it’s by far not just BMW.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Not really, the CSL had rear seats...

Rear seats isn't necessarily a requirement. BMW has a long history of taking an M car to another level. The extend is always going to be based on market conditions at the time

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I do like the look of the new G82 but I wish they had flared the rear fenders like they did for the G80.

History repeated itself. Digging up an F80/F82 post of 2014:

Originally Posted by Artemis

For a functional reason the M3 fenders are more "flared" than those of the M4:

"You might think that the BMW M3 and M4 are the same car, and for all practical intents and purposes, you would be correct. But I'll let you in on a little secret. While the underbits are basically the same, they're wearing very different dresses. See, the M4 has a wider body and some aero deficiencies compared to the M3, so it gets a special carbon fiber trunk. Woo. Hoo.
The M3 is the better looking car, and there are two simple words that will make you understand that: Fender flares. See, the sedan body [M3] is narrower than that of the M4, but the track is the same. Instead of just letting the wheels flail out there in the open, BMW covered them carefully and, dare I say, sensually.
No, it doesn't have a carbon trunk lid and instead makes do with a little add on lip spoiler, but that pock mark cannot spoil glorious fender flares. Combine that with the aggressive front end and bulging hood, and you have a real winner on your hands. I even like the Bimmerangs."
http://jalopnik.com/2015-bmw-m3-the-...iew-1635342844

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Patton250

All that with a massive part shortage and a massive slow down in production. Have there been no COVID-19 and the shutting down of factories all over the world there would have been a lot more G80’s produced by now.

I see your point, but IMHO the situation is more balanced.

Obviously, the BMW Group Quarterly Statement - Sep 30, 2021 (released on Nov 3, 2021 - see here) reported about "ongoing supply bottlenecks, especially for semiconductor components" causing "production volume shortfalls", "reduced vehicle production", "lower sales volumes", "the downturn in automobile deliveries" and "a significant reduction in vehicle inventories held by dealerships" during 2021 Q3.

But BMW seems to qualify the magnitude as considerable for 2021 Q3 (and expects adverse effects to continue in the near future), rather than "massive" throughout 2021:

"Despite the global challenges posed by semiconductor component supply bottlenecks, the BMW Group saw increasing sales volumes throughout the period under report [Jan-Sep 2021]. In total, 1,932,224 BMW, MINI and Rolls-Royce brand vehicles were delivered to customers, with nine-month sales rising sharply by 18.0 % (2020: 1,638,167 units). Growth was recorded for all Group brands across all regions worldwide. As expected, the global shortage of semiconductor components caused sales to drop significantly in the third quarter to 593,177 units, well down on the corresponding figure one year earlier (2020: 675,592; –12.2 %).
The increasing scope of electrification within the BMW Group's model range and continued strong demand for electrified vehicles meant that delivery figures almost doubled during the first nine months of the year. Between January and September 2021, 231,575 all-electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles were delivered to customers (2020: 116,400 units; +98.9 %). Sales of all-electric vehicles grew particularly dynamically, rising by 121.4 % to 59,688 units for the nine-month period."

"In the third quarter 2021, operations were increasingly impacted by supply bottlenecks for semiconductor components. Although this resulted in production volume shortfalls and lower sales volumes during the period from July to September 2021, the impact was more than offset by positive price effects for new and pre-owned vehicles.
Revenues rose to € 82,831 million (2020: € 69,508 million; +19.2 %; adjusted for currency factors: + 20.5 %) for the nine-month period and to € 27,471 million (2020: € 26,283 million; +4.5 %; adjusted for currency factors: +3.5 %) for the third quarter, in both cases higher than one year earlier.
Key factors influencing the development of revenues during the first nine months of the year were improved selling prices and higher sales volumes, driven, among other things, by higher demand for individual mobility in the wake of the pandemic and the impact of reduced global availability of vehicles due to semiconductor supply shortages. At the same time, pre-owned vehicle markets also benefited from the semiconductor shortage."

"The benefits of higher selling prices and improved residual values described above were sufficient to compensate for the mounting production volume shortfalls caused by semiconductor supply bottlenecks and the related impact on unit sales in the third quarter."

"The dealership financing line of business was affected by a significant reduction in vehicle inventories held by dealerships at the end of the third quarter 2021. This development resulted from the impact of reduced vehicle production, particularly in the third quarter, as a consequence of the semiconductor supply bottleneck on the one hand as well as strong demand for new and pre-owned vehicles on the other. As a consequence, total volume of dealership financing fell by 22.9 % to € 12,524 million (31 December 2020: € 16,241 million)."

"The supply bottlenecks currently occurring on international semiconductor markets do not yet show any signs of easing. Ongoing high demand in combination with limited capacities along the supply chain mean that semiconductor supplies are likely to remain tense. This situation has implications for the BMW Group, as the risk of bottlenecks in the supply of semiconductor components could result in further production volume shortfalls. [...] Due to high demand on international semiconductor markets, temporary bottlenecks in the supply of electronic components have also meanwhile arisen for the BMW Group. Further adjustments to the production schedule could arise during the remainder of the year due to the ongoing supply issues. The BMW Group is monitoring the situation very closely, assessing developments on a continual basis and ensuring that supply chains and production plants are working together as smoothly as possible. Despite these efforts, temporary bottlenecks cannot be entirely ruled out."

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Artemis

I see your point, but IMHO the situation is more balanced.

Obviously, the BMW Group Quarterly Statement - Sep 30, 2021 (released on Nov 3, 2021 - see here) reported about "ongoing supply bottlenecks, especially for semiconductor components" causing "production volume shortfalls", "reduced vehicle production", "lower sales volumes", "the downturn in automobile deliveries" and "a significant reduction in vehicle inventories held by dealerships" during 2021 Q3.

But BMW seems to qualify the magnitude as considerable for 2021 Q3 (and expects adverse effects to continue in the near future), rather than "massive" throughout 2021:

"Despite the global challenges posed by semiconductor component supply bottlenecks, the BMW Group saw increasing sales volumes throughout the period under report [Jan-Sep 2021]. In total, 1,932,224 BMW, MINI and Rolls-Royce brand vehicles were delivered to customers, with nine-month sales rising sharply by 18.0 % (2020: 1,638,167 units). Growth was recorded for all Group brands across all regions worldwide. As expected, the global shortage of semiconductor components caused sales to drop significantly in the third quarter to 593,177 units, well down on the corresponding figure one year earlier (2020: 675,592; –12.2 %).
The increasing scope of electrification within the BMW Group's model range and continued strong demand for electrified vehicles meant that delivery figures almost doubled during the first nine months of the year. Between January and September 2021, 231,575 all-electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles were delivered to customers (2020: 116,400 units; +98.9 %). Sales of all-electric vehicles grew particularly dynamically, rising by 121.4 % to 59,688 units for the nine-month period."

"In the third quarter 2021, operations were increasingly impacted by supply bottlenecks for semiconductor components. Although this resulted in production volume shortfalls and lower sales volumes during the period from July to September 2021, the impact was more than offset by positive price effects for new and pre-owned vehicles.
Revenues rose to € 82,831 million (2020: € 69,508 million; +19.2 %; adjusted for currency factors: + 20.5 %) for the nine-month period and to € 27,471 million (2020: € 26,283 million; +4.5 %; adjusted for currency factors: +3.5 %) for the third quarter, in both cases higher than one year earlier.
Key factors influencing the development of revenues during the first nine months of the year were improved selling prices and higher sales volumes, driven, among other things, by higher demand for individual mobility in the wake of the pandemic and the impact of reduced global availability of vehicles due to semiconductor supply shortages. At the same time, pre-owned vehicle markets also benefited from the semiconductor shortage."

"The benefits of higher selling prices and improved residual values described above were sufficient to compensate for the mounting production volume shortfalls caused by semiconductor supply bottlenecks and the related impact on unit sales in the third quarter."

"The dealership financing line of business was affected by a significant reduction in vehicle inventories held by dealerships at the end of the third quarter 2021. This development resulted from the impact of reduced vehicle production, particularly in the third quarter, as a consequence of the semiconductor supply bottleneck on the one hand as well as strong demand for new and pre-owned vehicles on the other. As a consequence, total volume of dealership financing fell by 22.9 % to € 12,524 million (31 December 2020: € 16,241 million)."

"The supply bottlenecks currently occurring on international semiconductor markets do not yet show any signs of easing. Ongoing high demand in combination with limited capacities along the supply chain mean that semiconductor supplies are likely to remain tense. This situation has implications for the BMW Group, as the risk of bottlenecks in the supply of semiconductor components could result in further production volume shortfalls. [...] Due to high demand on international semiconductor markets, temporary bottlenecks in the supply of electronic components have also meanwhile arisen for the BMW Group. Further adjustments to the production schedule could arise during the remainder of the year due to the ongoing supply issues. The BMW Group is monitoring the situation very closely, assessing developments on a continual basis and ensuring that supply chains and production plants are working together as smoothly as possible. Despite these efforts, temporary bottlenecks cannot be entirely ruled out."

They tried to sugarcoat it but everything they said pretty much goes along with what I’ve been saying. Actually it looks worse than what I’ve been saying. It’s not looking good at all. I imagine most auto manufacturers are going through the same things. Hopefully 2023 things will get back to normal.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Patton250

They tried to sugarcoat it but everything they said pretty much goes along with what I've been saying. Actually it looks worse than what I've been saying. It's not looking good at all. I imagine most auto manufacturers are going through the same things. Hopefully 2023 things will get back to normal.

BMW just stated that Jan-sept 2021 production/sales rose by 18% from 2020… All BMW groups have reported increased sales in that period.
It's in the 3rd and 4th quarter that production has been/will be aversely affected. With sales down 12,2% for the 3rd quarter (but still up by 18% in total for the 1st-3rd quarter).

How is that even worse than what you have said with regards to massive production delays?

And in my previous posts the sources I linked to said that other German manufacturers had been much harder hit than BMW by the chip shortage.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Boss330

BMW just stated that Jan-sept 2021 production/sales rose by 18% from 2020… All BMW groups have reported increased sales in that period.
It's in the 3rd and 4th quarter that production has been/will be aversely affected. With sales down 12,2% for the 3rd quarter (but still up by 18% in total for the 1st-3rd quarter).

How is that even worse than what you have said with regards to massive production delays?

And in my previous posts the sources I linked to said that other German manufacturers had been much harder hit than BMW by the chip shortage.

Brother I am obviously doing a poor job of communicating so I will make this last post here and respectfully bow out. You can post all the reports from BMW want but it doesn’t change the fact that every single BMW dealer I’ve spoken to and gone to doesn’t have any cars to sell. There is thread after thread after thread on this very forum of people complaining about not getting their M3 when they were promised and being delayed by MONTHS!!! Including me. If that sounds normal and good to you then I don’t know what else to say. So thank you and like I said I’ll back out.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Brother I am obviously doing a poor job of communicating so I will make this last post here and respectfully bow out. You can post all the reports from BMW want but it doesn’t change the fact that every single BMW dealer I’ve spoken to and gone to doesn’t have any cars to sell. There is thread after thread after thread on this very forum of people complaining about not getting their M3 when they were promised and being delayed by MONTHS!!! Including me. If that sounds normal and good to you then I don’t know what else to say. So thank you and like I said I’ll back out.

I don't say that people doesn't experience delays etc. Heck, that's even what BMW says…

But regardless, production has increased from 2020 (which was a year that was 7,2% down from 2019 btw).

BMW reported a sales increase of 19,2% in the Jan-Sept period of 2021 (despite the -12,2% decrease in July-Sept 3rd quarter).
See page 9 of BMW 3rd quarter report.

BMW also predicted a «solid increase» on deliveres for the automotive division for 2021 and did not adjust that prediction in their 3rd quarter report.
See page 26 of BMW 3rd quarter report.

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...54853EN/505215

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Let me ask you this. Why would the sales person give a crap either way? Especially one that you are friends with? I mean it is what it is. Either the ceramic bezel Daytona sells more than the non-ceramic version or not. This is very simple. So when I ask my Rolex buddy who’s been doing it for a couple of decades, which version had more enthusiasm and more demand Sales he just answers the question. This isn’t rocket science. I understand you don’t like the answer with the M3 but it doesn’t change it from being true.

Only followed this discussion a bit in the margin, but why is it this important that we can compare #? The entire context has changed since F and G, the competitive field has shifted dramatically, so what do we think to proof over here?

I drove the G and it was significantly better than the F. But when you ask my opinion, the F looks better and it was at least as much fun. So what is driving sales? I dunno But does it matter? When I see the pricing on the G really near the one of the F, the G delivers better value for money. It's the superior car, everybody agrees no?

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by Patton250

driving has gotten so bad in Florida. We’ve been invaded as people from freedom hating states are all having a mass exodus to our freedom loving state of Florida. I’ve never seen so many traffic accidents in my life. I 95 and I 75 always at a standstill. In fact I caught an accident on my rear dash cam while we were at a standstill for an accident in front of us. check this out. This is on I 75 south on a Friday afternoon I believe. I was just coming to it where traffic was at a standstill because of an accident a couple miles ahead. That’s why I was going so slow. The dude in the truck must have in looking at his phone or something and then looked up and saw traffic in front of him stopped and it was too late. The result is what you see.

People from freedom hating states don't drive large trucks. Much more likely that was your fellow florida-man.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

People from freedom hating states don't drive large trucks. Much more likely that was your fellow florida-man.

Nope. It was Michigan.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by Patton250

driving has gotten so bad in Florida. We've been invaded as people from freedom hating states are all having a mass exodus to our freedom loving state of Florida. I've never seen so many traffic accidents in my life. I 95 and I 75 always at a standstill. In fact I caught an accident on my rear dash cam while we were at a standstill for an accident in front of us. check this out. This is on I 75 south on a Friday afternoon I believe. I was just coming to it where traffic was at a standstill because of an accident a couple miles ahead. That's why I was going so slow. The dude in the truck must have in looking at his phone or something and then looked up and saw traffic in front of him stopped and it was too late. The result is what you see.

fkg idiots on roads everywhere … thank the oil cartel

[Darth One]

8. You said three years back that a unique M-car would not necessarly had to be a sportscar. Based on our info wrt the PHEV, we would bet on a crossover. Is this also the first unique M car since the M1? (strange question isn't it?)

To be clear, there will be a unique M car.

9. When possible a sportscar? (what, previous question he was convinced it was a crossover??)

We stand for sports and high performance on the public road. We also want to endulge customers that are seeking for luxury. With the M8 we partially succeeded in this mission. Nevertheless there is still one segment we're not represented in! I can't reveal more than what I just said.

Would someone with knowledge, or who can read the original German to understand nuances of speech, care to enlighten us on what he’s saying. A unique M-car like the M1, but not in the sports car segment? All those red herrings about crossovers and M8’s totally confused me

[RichP]

Originally Posted by cwhands

Couldn't get the touring approved for the US though.

Damnit Markus!

One would think the popularity of the Audi RS6 Avant right now would be all the more reason BMW would bring the touring here..

[kyrix1st]

More like "we want to spend the least $$ on R&D as possible and it has to be a cash cow so gotta be an SUV, we don't care about historic icons other than for marketing, oh and no special engine or transmission, just a makeover."

Originally Posted by Darth One

Would someone with knowledge, or who can read the original German to understand nuances of speech, care to enlighten us on what he’s saying. A unique M-car like the M1, but not in the sports car segment? All those red herrings about crossovers and M8’s totally confused me

[couchflyer]

That reporter really did ask any hard questions, ie nothing about the recent poor designs moves, grill and the new 2 series.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by couchflyer

That reporter really did ask any hard questions, ie nothing about the recent poor designs moves, grill and the new 2 series.

All the questions get vetted prior to the interview. Any questions that he wouldn't have wanted to answer would have been removed - I'm not suggesting this was the case here for sure, but it could have something to do with it

[jp1984]

Originally Posted by Darth One

Would someone with knowledge, or who can read the original German to understand nuances of speech, care to enlighten us on what he’s saying. A unique M-car like the M1, but not in the sports car segment? All those red herrings about crossovers and M8’s totally confused me

A BMW ///M El Camino Truck. Finally. They teased us too many times.

[Darth One]

Originally Posted by jp1984

A BMW ///M El Camino Truck. Finally. They teased us too many times.

El Ca///Mino?