[mgokev]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

It really shined a light on how unnecessary the CCB's are for every day stopping power.

This was the biggest thing. Zero real world benefit. Unless you are content paying $8k for less dust. Then by all means have at it.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by mgokev

This was the biggest thing. Zero real world benefit. Unless you are content paying $8k for less dust. Then by all means have at it.

I think the dust issue is just ridiculous to me, but it's not my $8k. Lol!

[kjx]

Originally Posted by Onesie

NOW it's sunny there!? Lol
They'll have to do it again in the rain lol that's what AWD is for, launching and performing in inclement weather. Even bigger performance advantage in the snow/ice, as mentioned.

Exactly this. If the xDrive is this much better in perfect conditions up to more than twice the legal speed in most of the US, I expect the difference will be starker in inclement weather.

[NightWriter]

Originally Posted by mgokev

This was the biggest thing. Zero real world benefit. Unless you are content paying $8k for less dust. Then by all means have at it.

When the brakes are relatively cold and you're performing a single panic stop, then the braking distance is going to be more limited by tires (and suspension and weight) than anything else, since the brakes on both cars are pulsing to maintain maximum traction.

Where the CCB's could be more impactful is on a track, where repeated stops raises temperatures dramatically and CCBs may offer more consistent stops with less fade. They're also lighter (less unsprung mass), which may help marginally with handling and acceleration.

... but agree that, for a DD -- even with occasional spirited driving or track use -- the standard brakes are likely more than adequate.

[V-Eight]

I went for the CCB and for the AWD because I have a house on the Dolomiti Mountains here in Italy. Believe me...a great steel system it's not as consistant as a CC one. I've experienced it driving that road in my brother's M8c with CCB, 25 km of smiles. NO fadings at all, every time a consistent pedal. With my friends F80 with steel brakes, the different is huge, believe me.

I agree with you when you say that for a daily driving CCB are not necessary, but....if you live in some areas like mine, on the plain but close to mountains and hills, a CCB is a must have for spirited drives over there.

[superbrew]

I wonder how the launches would compare if they were on the same tires. Similar question for braking distance.

[OF Hero]

Were the tire pressures equal though?

[Hawkdog]

Originally Posted by superbrew

I wonder how the launches would compare if they were on the same tires. Similar question for braking distance.

Looks to me like both cars are on Michelins, though the RWDs tires look more worn. Are you seeing differently somewhere?

RWD jumped the 3rd race too…not as bad as the 2nd, but still jumped.

[Ruyseart]

For me, the video shows what I was suspecting some time ago... there is no objective reason to buy a G8X RWD, other than having it 1 year before the AWD version was released.
Not for that little price diff.

[Salespunk]

Breaking news! Physics still relevant in the real world.

Seriously though, everything here is as expected. The first race is going to be the real world experience for most drivers. Trying to balance traction with acceleration excluding launch control is going to take a lot of practice with the RWD car. For the roll races, drivetrain loss and weight make a difference.

The real reason to pick one over excluding launches is driving dynamics. The AWD car is going to be much more planted coming out of corners and makes everyone feel like a hero. The RWD is going to be a lot more playful with the ability to adjust the car via the throttle.

I say this coming from an F90 M5 to the G80 RWD. The F90 could be pushed to the limit comfortably while the G80 requires a little more respect at the edge when exiting corners on the throttle.

Either car is awesome, just different strokes for different folks.

[M3AWD]

I hope this thread stays on track and doesn't get sideways with owners saying this is better than that... I'm sure most RWD owners are happy with the performance of their cars and not everybody is looking to be a few tenths faster at a stop light

As an AWD owner I'm not surprised with the results and I like that carwow managed to get good launches from their RWD to get a good comparison. That just shows how good the RWD launch control system and traction are. In a streetlight race the difference will almost always be bigger due to different conditions such as cold tires, cold asphalt, wet road, dust etc. which is where the AWD advantage and consistency becomes even more pronounced

[adc]

Originally Posted by NightWriter

Where the CCB's could be more impactful is on a track, where repeated stops raises temperatures dramatically and CCBs may offer more consistent stops with less fade. They're also lighter (less unsprung mass), which may help marginally with handling and acceleration.

You are correct. However for track use, the downside of the CCBs is that if you are relatively quick, they will not even last 1 season of tracking. $8k is a lot to pay per season - or even more often - and this is why virtually nobody uses CCBs on track.

All the people I know with GT3s, GT3RS, M3 etc with CCB are switching to an iron disc conversion, with the corresponding pads. An anecdote: A few years ago at VIR I was admiring Ralf Giles' Viper ACR and noticed it had the steel rotor conversion. He smiled and said they call those "journalist brakes", they make an impression on drivers doing 1 or 2 quick laps and therefore get good press, but none of the fast people use them. His was in a line of 3 such Vipers, all with the steel rotor conversion.

There are better steel brake systems out there for CCB money, from Brembo, Alcon and AP Racing which perform just as well or better on track, are lighter than the OEM steel setup, and are far more durable and therefore more economical over 2-3 years of ownership.


I would argue that in fact the OEM setup is adequate with the right pads and fluid even on track, unless you are extremely fast and running slicks. That is not hearsay, I have the times to prove it.

[Gfit]

Originally Posted by Salespunk

Breaking news! Physics still relevant in the real world.

Seriously though, everything here is as expected. The first race is going to be the real world experience for most drivers. Trying to balance traction with acceleration excluding launch control is going to take a lot of practice with the RWD car. For the roll races, drivetrain loss and weight make a difference.

The real reason to pick one over excluding launches is driving dynamics. The AWD car is going to be much more planted coming out of corners and makes everyone feel like a hero. The RWD is going to be a lot more playful with the ability to adjust the car via the throttle.

I say this coming from an F90 M5 to the G80 RWD. The F90 could be pushed to the limit comfortably while the G80 requires a little more respect at the edge when exiting corners on the throttle.

Either car is awesome, just different strokes for different folks.

100% agreed but aren't you able to put the awd in RWD mode when you want to do that?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by MSpain

For me, the video shows what I was suspecting some time ago... there is no objective reason to buy a G8X RWD, other than having it 1 year before the AWD version was released.
Not for that little price diff.

Your final statement IS an objective reason to choose the RWD platform over the AWD platform.

[Salespunk]

Originally Posted by Gfit

100% agreed but aren't you able to put the awd in RWD mode when you want to do that?

Yes, but I never once did it with my F90. I think most drivers will see it as a novelty, do it once for a burnout and then never go RWD again.

BMW's AWD system is amazing. It feels very natural with near zero push in corners. I would have been happy with either, but found a RWD in stock on a build that I liked. Definitely having fun with it and getting more comfortable with sliding the car around more now.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by Salespunk

Yes, but I never once did it with my F90. I think most drivers will see it as a novelty, do it once for a burnout and then never go RWD again.

BMW's AWD system is amazing. It feels very natural with near zero push in corners. I would have been happy with either, but found a RWD in stock on a build that I liked. Definitely having fun with it and getting more comfortable with sliding the car around more now.

I never used the RWD option on my F90 or currently with my F93 but--- I have used the RWD option on the X drive G80 because I have the traction adjustment button (I use 5). Does the X drive feel like the RWD G80? Hard to say but there is definitely slip vs the X Drive or AWD Sport or 4WD setting.

Outside of a draggy with empirical data I can only still guess that the RWD car would ever so slightly pull the X drive do to weight and drivetrain parasitics up top. Of course these races we watch are on closed courses relatively set up fairly vs a street romp where driver, conditions, settings, etc clearly are meaningful. As we have all seen in many rolling runs even in pre meditated conditions, jumps are very material.

In the real world the X drive will clearly beat the RWD from a dig as its not so easy to just line up, set up, and then go with LC.

[kjx]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Your final statement IS an objective reason to choose the RWD platform over the AWD platform.

You are repeating what he said. Other than that one objective reason (which applied at that time), there are no other objective reasons.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by kjx

You are repeating what he said. Other than that one objective reason (which applied at that time), there are no other objective reasons.

I guess it was just the way he worded it. There are other objective reasons as well (…as mentioned by another poster).

[modat]

Queue the awd owners praising how much better it is and queue the rwd justifying why it's not.

[vetteflier]

Good test, as expected. The difference is negligible. AWD a bit faster in 1/4; RWD will run it down at higher speeds. Very similar to running a 911S or C8 (at low altitudes.) Hard to go wrong with either as far as I'm concerned. If you want a year round car in the snow belt...there it is.

[________]

Originally Posted by kjx

You are repeating what he said. Other than that one objective reason (which applied at that time), there are no other objective reasons.

No he didn't. He said the price different is so small as to not make a difference.

[kjx]

Originally Posted by Onesie

No he didn't. He said the price different is so small as to not make a difference.

Okay that's fair. If I were pedantic, I'd day the price difference to value created balance is subjective (since it varies from personal situation to personal situation). Objectively the AWD performs better in most situations. Subjectively, whether that is worth $4k more is down to the individual.