How bad are the factory Pirelli’s compared to Michelin’s

mzcp · 08-28-2021, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepdoc

Did some testing with DragTimes today. Pirellis dead hooked on launch, logging a 2.99 0-60. Definitely good with that !

Wow that's impressive. Bravo

CadHater · 08-28-2021, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepdoc

Did some testing with DragTimes today. Pirellis dead hooked on launch, logging a 2.99 0-60. Definitely good with that !

That will be interesting. Was he trying to race you in a Mclaren? Lol

All his videos seem like he has a pretty good drag prepped surface. So I'm assuming he will be posting a video soon with a G8x…

sleepdoc · 08-28-2021, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadHater

That will be interesting. Was he trying to race you in a Mclaren? Lol

All his videos seem like he has a pretty good drag prepped surface. So I'm assuming he will be posting a video soon with a G8x…

A little plaid action in there, not sure how he’s going to cut it up. Just regular street surface, but it was hot out - 1800 DA, about 90 degrees and a lot of humidity.

CadHater · 08-28-2021, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepdoc

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadHater

That will be interesting. Was he trying to race you in a Mclaren? Lol

All his videos seem like he has a pretty good drag prepped surface. So I'm assuming he will be posting a video soon with a G8x…

A little plaid action in there, not sure how he’s going to cut it up. Just regular street surface, but it was hot out - 1800 DA, about 90 degrees and a lot of humidity.

Man, he loves that Plaid. Insane how the Rimac made the Plaid look slow.

Meanie · 08-31-2021, 03:31 PM

I was unlucky to get the Pirellis with my G82 but I since have upgraded from the 826Ms to the 936Ms which came with P4S's. I can tell you there is no doubt a difference in grip and handling between the two. Call it what you want, but the P4S are far superior to the P Zeros and there is a noticeable difference. Call it the placebo effect or just my mind playing tricks on me but I can honestly say the difference is real.

I found on hard acceleration the traction light would go off all the time with the P Zeros. Same place, similar tire temps and similar air temps with the P4S's the traction light hardly - if ever goes off.

Forzanerazzurri · 09-01-2021, 01:12 AM

This thread is hilarious. The ps4s and pzero are both world class tires. There are far more capable cars that come with pzeros from the factory. There is no statistically significant difference between the performance of either tire in the most reputable tests. This narrative that there is a lottery where you win or lose based on what tire you get needs to end. If anyone wants to ship me their spare "junk" pzeros, I'll gladly pm you my address.

M3-san · 09-01-2021, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meanie

I was unlucky to get the Pirellis with my G82 but I since have upgraded from the 826Ms to the 936Ms which came with P4S's. I can tell you there is no doubt a difference in grip and handling between the two. Call it what you want, but the P4S are far superior to the P Zeros and there is a noticeable difference. Call it the placebo effect or just my mind playing tricks on me but I can honestly say the difference is real.

I found on hard acceleration the traction light would go off all the time with the P Zeros. Same place, similar tire temps and similar air temps with the P4S's the traction light hardly - if ever goes off.

Did you check tire pressure on the Pirelli's? Maybe there is a tire pressure difference that caused this experience?

I too just got my car with the Pirelli's and have experienced very little wheel spin so far. But I am still in break-in period so I have not been fully pushing the car.

Gfit · 09-01-2021, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

This thread is hilarious. The ps4s and pzero are both world class tires. There are far more capable cars that come with pzeros from the factory. There is no statistically significant difference between the performance of either tire in the most reputable tests. This narrative that there is a lottery where you win or lose based on what tire you get needs to end. If anyone wants to ship me their spare "junk" pzeros, I'll gladly pm you my address.

I have to agree. This morning was the first time I drove my M3Cx in the rain. Wasn't on the highway but some local roads that are made from concrete that had been worn down for 30 years. Looks shiny it's so smooth. Punch the throttle a few times and car appeared to grip as normal. No traction lights and no noticeable slip. Pirellis

Ximian · 09-01-2021, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

This thread is hilarious. The ps4s and pzero are both world class tires. There are far more capable cars that come with pzeros from the factory. There is no statistically significant difference between the performance of either tire in the most reputable tests. This narrative that there is a lottery where you win or lose based on what tire you get needs to end. If anyone wants to ship me their spare "junk" pzeros, I'll gladly pm you my address.

Both are world class tires, but the star spec PS4S is better than the P Zero. All performance claims by BMW even in the manual specifically say it's on PS4S tires. All journalist reviews on press cars are on the PS4S tires.

The PS4S is a tire most people had on other cars and the P Zero doesn't have quite the same feel. Performance when both tires are warmed up is probably mostly insignificant but you can still have a preference.

If you were given the choice of one set of tires for free between the PS4S and the P Zero, which would you choose?

Meanie · 09-01-2021, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3-san

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meanie

I was unlucky to get the Pirellis with my G82 but I since have upgraded from the 826Ms to the 936Ms which came with P4S's. I can tell you there is no doubt a difference in grip and handling between the two. Call it what you want, but the P4S are far superior to the P Zeros and there is a noticeable difference. Call it the placebo effect or just my mind playing tricks on me but I can honestly say the difference is real.

I found on hard acceleration the traction light would go off all the time with the P Zeros. Same place, similar tire temps and similar air temps with the P4S's the traction light hardly - if ever goes off.

Did you check tire pressure on the Pirelli's? Maybe there is a tire pressure difference that caused this experience?

Yup, TP was/is identical on both sets.

Forzanerazzurri · 09-01-2021, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ximian

Both are world class tires, but the star spec PS4S is better than the P Zero. All performance claims by BMW even in the manual specifically say it's on PS4S tires. All journalist reviews on press cars are on the PS4S tires.

The PS4S is a tire most people had on other cars and the P Zero doesn't have quite the same feel. Performance when both tires are warmed up is probably mostly insignificant but you can still have a preference.

If you were given the choice of one set of tires for free between the PS4S and the P Zero, which would you choose?

Do you have any proof of any of this or it just more conjecture?

I honestly wouldn't care which tire I got, and this is coming from a guy who's had michelins on his e46 m3 for a decade.

Ximian · 09-01-2021, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

Do you have any proof of any of this or it just more conjecture?

I honestly wouldn't care which tire I got, and this is coming from a guy who's had michelins on his e46 m3 for a decade.

Proof of which claim specifically? The BMW/Star spec P Zero was made around the F90 M5 and M8, but maybe even earlier. We're inheriting the same tire in the G80/82 sizes.

Go onto the M5 forums and you'll see people switching to the PS4S (probably not even Star spec) with more favorable opinions. Also mentions for "losing the lottery" by getting the P Zeros so this is nothing new.

Forzanerazzurri · 09-02-2021, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ximian

Proof of which claim specifically? The BMW/Star spec P Zero was made around the F90 M5 and M8, but maybe even earlier. We're inheriting the same tire in the G80/82 sizes.

Go onto the M5 forums and you'll see people switching to the PS4S (probably not even Star spec) with more favorable opinions. Also mentions for "losing the lottery" by getting the P Zeros so this is nothing new.

"the star spec ps4s are better than the pzeros". Citing that press cars are fitted with ps4s and some forum members anecdotal preferences is not evidence that one tire is better than the other or that anyone should care about one tire over the other in any meaningful or measurable way.

Wamion117 · 09-02-2021, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

This thread is hilarious. The ps4s and pzero are both world class tires. There are far more capable cars that come with pzeros from the factory. There is no statistically significant difference between the performance of either tire in the most reputable tests. This narrative that there is a lottery where you win or lose based on what tire you get needs to end. If anyone wants to ship me their spare "junk" pzeros, I'll gladly pm you my address.

Except in the wet lol

Ximian · 09-03-2021, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

"the star spec ps4s are better than the pzeros". Citing that press cars are fitted with ps4s and some forum members anecdotal preferences is not evidence that one tire is better than the other or that anyone should care about one tire over the other in any meaningful or measurable way.

There aren't any tests showing the differences between the BMW spec PS4S vs the P Zero like there is for the PS4S and aftermarket PS4S. The vast majority of people prefer the PS4S for a reason.

More anecdotes -

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-test-feature/

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=223

https://www.tire-reviews.com/Article...-Tire-Test.htm

https://www.tire-reviews.com/Article...-Tire-Test.htm

Forzanerazzurri · 09-03-2021, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ximian

There aren't any tests showing the differences between the BMW spec PS4S vs the P Zero like there is for the PS4S and aftermarket PS4S. The vast majority of people prefer the PS4S for a reason.

More anecdotes -

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-test-feature/

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=223

https://www.tire-reviews.com/Article...-Tire-Test.htm

https://www.tire-reviews.com/Article...-Tire-Test.htm

If you're going to make an argument based on reviews from tire vendors you may want to at least include the most recent one...

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tests/t...b=ResultCharts

Look at that, the pzeros are better in the wet, completely contrary to what "the majority of people" seem to say.

JDR_G80 · 09-03-2021, 08:49 PM

the fun thing about getting crappy stock tires is burning through them and not feeling bad. Personally I'll take Pirelli's as long as they aren't winter tyres.

hz101 · 09-09-2021, 09:46 AM

My car came with the PZeros and they are pretty good. I had Michelins on my M2 before and they definitely had better traction in the rain. But I haven't had any issues with the Pirellis in dry conditions.

m20e3087 · 09-09-2021, 11:03 AM

In the dry they are fine, however I am having traction issues during this raining season in central FL. Few more months before I will replace them for PS4S.

CanuckM · 09-10-2021, 11:57 PM

For the record, the Pirellis P-Zeros are not as bad as most people say they are. FWIW, I too, lost the tire lottery.

My issue with the Pirelli is the way they wear down. I am on my 4th or 5th track day with them. My issue is that once they reach, 50 or 40% life they fall off pretty drastically; unlike the Michelins. The tires are good but the lack of consistent wear is the more aggravating part.

barryc365 · 09-11-2021, 06:40 AM

We need to get some of you tire experts to do some blind tire tests…I sorry but I don't believe in your butt dyno's guys!!

As for Tall Tom Cruise complaining about hydroplaning and then switching the Cup 2's? Let me know how they do in standing water!!?

Star spec P-Zero's specifically designed for this car by engineers with massive budgets…let's be real here, they're not garbage tires.

Interesting Little quote from their website talking about the history of the PZero which was specced on the Ferrari F40 back in the day… 'The most recent examples are the Lamborghini Centenario, the equally prodigious Ferrari and McLaren P1and the refined Pagani Huayra, the recipient of three types of P Zero (standard, Corsa and Trofeo) specially produced for the high performing manufacturer in San Cesario sul Panaro, Modena.'

McLaren are the most anal of manufacturers when it comes to handling and they're putting a version of them on the P1? Safe to say they're confident that Pirelli know a thing or two about tires no?

https://www.pirelli.com/global/en-ww...pirelli-p-zero

diavliyo · 11-04-2021, 02:52 PM

Pzero también

08-31-2021, 03:31 PM	#27
Meanie Lieutenant 547 Rep 448 Posts Drives: BMW G82 M4C Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: South Africa iTrader: (0)	I was unlucky to get the Pirellis with my G82 but I since have upgraded from the 826Ms to the 936Ms which came with P4S's. I can tell you there is no doubt a difference in grip and handling between the two. Call it what you want, but the P4S are far superior to the P Zeros and there is a noticeable difference. Call it the placebo effect or just my mind playing tricks on me but I can honestly say the difference is real. I found on hard acceleration the traction light would go off all the time with the P Zeros. Same place, similar tire temps and similar air temps with the P4S's the traction light hardly - if ever goes off. __________________ - 2021 G82 ///M4C - AW, ZF8, CF Trim - CURRENT - 2018 F87 ///M2C - HS, DCT, Blue Stitching - SOLD - 2015 F82 ///M4 - AW, CF Trim, DCT, MPE, M Perf Exterior Trims - SOLD - 2008 E92 ///M3 - AW, CF Leather Trim, 6MT - Mods: Black Grills, Black Gills, CF mirrors - SOLD
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09-01-2021, 01:12 AM	#28
Forzanerazzurri Banned 6912 Rep 3,277 Posts Drives: E46 M3 Coupe/G80 M3CX Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Alberta iTrader: (0) Garage List 2003 BMW M3 Coupe [0.50] 2022 BMW M3 Competi ... [5.12]	This thread is hilarious. The ps4s and pzero are both world class tires. There are far more capable cars that come with pzeros from the factory. There is no statistically significant difference between the performance of either tire in the most reputable tests. This narrative that there is a lottery where you win or lose based on what tire you get needs to end. If anyone wants to ship me their spare "junk" pzeros, I'll gladly pm you my address.
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09-03-2021, 08:49 PM	#39
JDR_G80 IG jerseydentrepair IG dravitgrey_g80c 212 Rep 186 Posts Drives: G80c Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: NJ iTrader: (0)	the fun thing about getting crappy stock tires is burning through them and not feeling bad. Personally I'll take Pirelli's as long as they aren't winter tyres.
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09-09-2021, 09:46 AM	#40
hz101 First Lieutenant 171 Rep 324 Posts Drives: 2021 M3C Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Baltimore, MD iTrader: (1)	My car came with the PZeros and they are pretty good. I had Michelins on my M2 before and they definitely had better traction in the rain. But I haven't had any issues with the Pirellis in dry conditions.
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09-09-2021, 11:03 AM	#41
m20e3087 Major 1144 Rep 1,407 Posts Drives: G87 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: FL iTrader: (0) Garage List 2019 BMW M2C [0.00]	In the dry they are fine, however I am having traction issues during this raining season in central FL. Few more months before I will replace them for PS4S.
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09-10-2021, 11:57 PM	#42
CanuckM First Lieutenant 666 Rep 384 Posts Drives: cars Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	For the record, the Pirellis P-Zeros are not as bad as most people say they are. FWIW, I too, lost the tire lottery. My issue with the Pirelli is the way they wear down. I am on my 4th or 5th track day with them. My issue is that once they reach, 50 or 40% life they fall off pretty drastically; unlike the Michelins. The tires are good but the lack of consistent wear is the more aggravating part.
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09-11-2021, 06:40 AM	#43
barryc365 Major 1955 Rep 1,377 Posts Drives: BMWM3 Join Date: Apr 2021 Location: NYC iTrader: (1)	We need to get some of you tire experts to do some blind tire tests…I sorry but I don't believe in your butt dyno's guys!! As for Tall Tom Cruise complaining about hydroplaning and then switching the Cup 2's? Let me know how they do in standing water!!? Star spec P-Zero's specifically designed for this car by engineers with massive budgets…let's be real here, they're not garbage tires. Interesting Little quote from their website talking about the history of the PZero which was specced on the Ferrari F40 back in the day… 'The most recent examples are the Lamborghini Centenario, the equally prodigious Ferrari and McLaren P1and the refined Pagani Huayra, the recipient of three types of P Zero (standard, Corsa and Trofeo) specially produced for the high performing manufacturer in San Cesario sul Panaro, Modena.' McLaren are the most anal of manufacturers when it comes to handling and they're putting a version of them on the P1? Safe to say they're confident that Pirelli know a thing or two about tires no? https://www.pirelli.com/global/en-ww...pirelli-p-zero
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11-04-2021, 02:52 PM	#44
diavliyo Lieutenant 89 Rep 414 Posts Drives: 128TI Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Spain iTrader: (0)	Pzero también
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