[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by robopp

BMW should look to other EV offerings and see how they’re all discounted and still not moving. EV has its place, but it can’t replace everything. Namely a sports car where all the soul is in the motor.

I just picked up my Carrera T and my SA mentioned that they had to auction two new Taycans because no one was interested and they kept having to increase the discount well past losing money on them and still no takers.

BMW is in for a rude awakening if they think a full EV M3 will sell similar to previous offerings.

BMW knows better than you how many full EV M3 they will sell.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by harperium

there will have to be an S58 M3 for the North American market, otherwise sales would approach zero here.

There will be both love and hate that is for sure. BMW needs to start building the charging infrastructure right now!

Who doesn't want 0-60 in the 2s, 1/4 in the 10s, and M handling out of the box?

[12nine]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Yes of course

It’s an adaptive platform

A little something for everyone

It’s not an adaptive platform.

And could somebody change the title because there will be an ICE version, but most people don’t read the article.

[m2for2]

Originally Posted by guy_incognito1420

Avoid Virginia then.

We pay personal property tax on our car. Tax on my i4 this year is around $2,000 on the X3 it's like $400 or something like that.

We get lower sales tax than other states but the tax man will get their money some how.

Damn that's terrible, what is the % for the personal property tax on cars.

[BzsBimmer]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

BMW needs to start building the charging infrastructure right now!

This.
While BMW has its reasons for not joining Tesla’s charging standard and charging infrastructure, I just hope BMW doesn’t deliver a sub-par charging experience like the other companies do at the moment.

Say what you will about Tesla, their charging network is fairly dependable.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by 12nine

It’s not an adaptive platform.

And could somebody change the title because there will be an ICE version, but most people don’t read the article.

It’s that what adaptive means

[MNoob]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

There won't be many analog driver's cars built moving forward, and the ones that are will certainly cost 2 arms and a leg (out of the range for most of us). Even the BRZ/86-types will be converting to hybrid and EV tech soon, so new, affordable analog cars will soon be non-existent.

The good news is that we have plenty of current generation or later-model analog cars to choose from, in all body shapes, from a variety of manufacturers. So pick the ones you love most, and buy them, NOW.

Instead of us being grumpy about the future, we should be reveling in the present, and stockpiling our favorite cars in the next few years.

The new & older Porsches, new & older BMWs, Camaros, Blackwings and older V models, Alfa Romeo Quads, Miata, BRZs, etc. - we're going to miss them when they're gone. And they're almost gone from production.

Get 'em while you can, because it's a special experience that will be missed.

The world will move on.

Let's become those guys pulling their 50's and 60's hot rods out at Cars and Coffees across the country, because that will soon be us....remembering and treasuring the past.

I’m holding on to my Elise and hope to be buried in it. Ideally after I’m gone.

[Alpine300zhp]

Originally Posted by harperium

there will have to be an S58 M3 for the North American market, otherwise sales would approach zero here.

Precisely. As an M guy dating back to the E36/E39 generation, I can tell you that an electric M car will be the sign I need to simply keep my money in my pocket and take it elsewhere. BMW might want to be careful about their next move. I, like many others out there, have purchased millions of dollars worth of BMW’s since I started driving 30 years ago and I only do that because the cars speak to me. Electric cars do NOT speak to me so I won’t buy them. Now, if the plan is to have a ICE version and an electric version, that is perfect as each person can pick what he/she wants.

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by Bimmer5

When I hear people say ICE is going away or it’s inevitable it makes me cringe, we the consumers are in charge here not some group of politicians. If you refuse to buy EV’s guess what they will not make them, or at very least they will be a niche market.
If you’re a ICE enthusiast why support the EV market, the whole premise of never seeing a gas station again. Sure you may not have to go get gas but you can bet the cost will eventually be the same because the politicians will not let you get away without paying for the lost gas tax.
EV’s are a hard NO from me.

I was an ICE enthusiast but I support to EV market, because I'm not selfish.
No matter what you believe, I'm pretty sure putting a bunch of exhaust gas in the air everyday and creating air and noise pollution isn't the best thing to do for living things on this planet especially when you have a solid alternative.
A few decades from now, people will look back and will find it unbelievable and fascinating that we are all inhaling exhaust gas all the time and we are totally okay with it... Kinda like how we look back at times when roads were covered with horse sh*t, or when lead coming from cars' exhausts contaminated everything on the planet.

[BzsBimmer]

Originally Posted by Alpine300zhp

Precisely. As an M guy dating back to the E36/E39 generation, I can tell you that an electric M car will be the sign I need to simply keep my money in my pocket and take it elsewhere. BMW might want to be careful about their next move, I, like many others out there, have purchased millions of dollars worth of BMW’s since I started driving 30 years ago and I only so that because the cars speak to me. Electric cars do NOT speak to me so I won’t buy them.

Which is why there will be two variants. ICE and electric.
I think BMW is taking this electrification move cautiously. While they know they can’t satisfy everyone and will probably lose some of their existing audience, I’m sure their market analysis will help guide them forward.

BMW probably makes more off their mainstream product lines then they do with just their M lineup. Now with adding M Performance to almost all lineups, they can capitalize on the M brand and generate higher margins and attract newer, younger clientele. Just my random thoughts anyway.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

Who doesn't want 0-60 in the 2s, 1/4 in the 10s, and M handling out of the box?

Who?

The same enthusiasts who prefer slower manual transmissions.

The same enthusiasts who prefer slower RWD models to AWD models.

The same enthusiasts who prefer slower natural aspiration to turbo-charged engines.

It's not always about pure speed, sometimes it's about the experience.

But for those simply chasing the fastest 0 to 60 times, the coming EVs will certainly quench that thirst.

[Alpine300zhp]

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

Which is why there will be two variants. ICE and electric.
I think BMW is taking this electrification move cautiously. While they know they can’t satisfy everyone and will probably lose some of their existing audience, I’m sure their market analysis will help guide them forward.

BMW probably makes more off their mainstream product lines then they do with just their M lineup. Now with adding M Performance to almost all lineups, they can capitalize on the M brand and generate higher margins and attract newer, younger clientele. Just my random thoughts anyway.

Your view makes sense and FWIW I hope your prediction is accurate. I’m not against electric cars, but I don’t think they are right for me nor right for mass adoption….yet. Like all technology, access will improve and cost will decrease along with better charging infrastructure. Once all of that happens, I may feel differently about an electric car for me.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

BMW knows better than you how many full EV M3 they will sell.

Mercedes knew better too, right? V8TT -> I4TE did not go to plan.

[MarkOK]

Originally Posted by kgelfen360

It’s not really niche man. Do u drive 300 miles every single day? Most people don’t. I don’t have an EV yet but the fact that u plug in at home and it’s ready to go everyday is pretty nice. Is it for everyone. Not yet. But it will be….

I don't. But I do drive more than 300 miles about once every 2 weeks (on average) through the year. And when I do most of those trips, I am no in a leisurely sort of mood where I want to play on my phone for half an hour in the middle of some strip-mall parking lot waiting to recharge (assuming a charging station is available).

I made a trip to Kansas City a few weeks ago on an couple odd errands -- something like 800 miles total roundtrip of driving over a 48 hour period, and I had to make a quick stop at a Target in the burbs. In the back of the parking lot, there was a half dozen or so people with their EVs out in a hot asphalt parking lot waiting for their cars to charge, looking down at their phones sweating it out, in 90F+ heat and a couple more waiting nearby for one of the charging stations to open up. When I can fill up my tank in 2 minutes and get on my way and be home in time for dinner instead of waiting for 30 minutes+ in the sun every 200-300 miles (which is about the range good EVs can get you when you drive in hot weather and at high speeds), I don't regret my decision to buy an ICE.

I need a car that can serve my needs through the year, not one that 'works just fine on 90% of my trips but is a total p.i.t.a. the other 10% of the time'

(google maps image here of the exact spot)

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0495...8192?entry=ttu

[Mako]

So it’s just a Tesla plaid now…

I wouldn’t be as disappointed if they had an electric only chassis, or found a way to keep it at 4000-4200 lbs but this thing will probably be 5000 lbs

All electric cars are the same, no soul

Guess my G80 will be my last BMW (already went outside brand with family SUV and roadster), I used to be a big fanboy since my teens.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by Mako

Guess my G80 will be my last BMW (already went outside brand with family SUV and roadster), I used to be a big fanboy since my teens.

Well, at some point, all manufacturers will only have EVs and hybrids, even for their sportiest models...so you won't have a choice for a new car.

But there's always the used car market. Many will be surfing used car ads a decade from now for ICE vehicles, and the figures may be astronomical for a while.

[MarkOK]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

I am totally against a M3 pure EV but yes in the end the legislators will win. I think a lot of folks see this is with a US biais vision. There are many countries in which the push for EV is Well ahead. Let’s think about China for example and this is a growing market.

In here many EV have 2 years + waiting list since we have very cheap electricity and highly taxed fuel.

I think we should leave sport cars out of the EV formula there is a purity and an involvement that only ICE can replicate.

I still wonder why the push toward ev is not focus in area where the gain would be much greater: Trains, commercial trucks, pick up, offroaders things that use alot of fuel not replacing a diesel car that can do 4L/100kms for a Tesla.

The problems with the cases you mention is that to get decent performance metrics you need a LOT of battery weight. A "Tesla semi" for example would only be able to carry half the load weight as a regular semi to not violate weight restrictions on US highways. So, it's 'half' the logistical efficiency just on how much load you can move.

Ultimately, I think the US (especially) needs to focus on better urban planning so that over time we need fewer individual cars overall, and with cars, focus more on mileage efficiencies for ICEs and overall weights and sizes for safety reasons (most cars and trucks, especially EVS, are way too effing big), than forcing EV infrastructure to be built and letting cars grow to the size and weights of tanks.

[ToMorNotToM]

No thanks. Good time to save money.

[cfm56d7b]

Every technology evolution cycle will produce a health debate.

The quad motor M3 will finally bring proper torque vectoring to the platform. There is no doubt that torque vectoring is one of the topics M engineers explored before selected a quad motor configuration.

As the vehicle turns into a corner, the inside wheel and the outside wheel are rotating at the same rate. With torque vectoring, the outside wheel can get more power, pushing the car into a sharper, tighter turn.

Torque vectoring in the current ICE and non-quad motor platforms is a compromise.

Compromise 1: an approach using brakes, where the rotation of the inside wheel is slightly reduced by applying the brakes to one side of the vehicle but not the other. While effective in shifting torque to the outside wheel, this approach reduces power.

Compromise 2: a more effective approach using a torque vectoring differential. It reduces torque to the inside wheel while increasing torque to the outside wheel. No power is wasted.

No compromises: With a quad motor EV platform, there are more possibilities to improve power delivery and more responsive torque vectoring. Since each motor at each wheel is electronically controlled, the torque adjustments can be made faster and also provide an extra layer of safety when the vehicle loses traction.

Quad motor M3 (with synthetically generated, licensed Akrapovic acoustics inside) may very well establish a new Nürburgring record.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

Interesting article, thanks.

A blurb/linkie at the end of the page states that 35% of worldwide electricity is generated by coal. We have to remember that an awful lot of the world is not North America or Europe. Gasoline is very portable, energy dense and easy to use. It's no big deal to have an EV in a major metropolitan area, it is a huge deal if you live in the middle of South Dakota or perhaps Wyoming, where the population density is much lower, and so is the infrastructure to support other-than-ICE technology (think most of the African continent, for example).

So sure, we may all have little EV "city cars" but there will still be a need for ICE F150s, Range Rovers, Hilux, etc.

100% of the resources burned in an ICE are fossil fuels, so even if 35% of electricity is coal generated, it's still favorable. When and if electricity goes down to 10% coal generated, the ICE will still be at 100% fossil fuel dependent.

The portability of gas isn't completely advantageous over electricity. Once the initial cost of constructing electric infrastructure are hurtled, the cost of sending electricity via lines is faster and cheaper than trucking and shipping fuel. Also the environmental impact of oil pipelines are arguably higher risk than power lines. Solar, wind, hydro, and nuclear power can also make energy supply less geographically dependent as areas that depend on oil imports have an alternative local resource for energy.

While I agree that gas is super convenient outside the city, that's because we have spent the last century and a half getting better and better at making refined fossil fuels work for us. Compared to the pace of establishing a network of fueling stations, charging stations are doing quite well in their expansion.

I can't imagine we won't be able to quick charge a stranded vehicle with a portable battery pack enough to get them to the next fueling station, the electrical equivalent of the red gas can. Alternatively, instead of charging the on-board battery, my idea is a industry standard auxiliary input, perhaps in the trunk or frunk. A service/rescue vehicle would bring a suitcase sized charged solid state battery with its own safety fail safes that plugs into a port and lets you drive 100 miles or so. Then, much like we do with a butane tank, you leave it at the fueling station for them to charge for the next customer.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by MarkOK

The problemE with the cases you mention is that to get decent performance metrics you need a LOT of battery weight. A "Tesla semi" for example would only be able to carry half the load weight as a regular semi to not violate weight restrictions on US highways. So, it's 'half' the logistical efficiency just on how much load you can move.

Ultimately, I think the US (especially) needs to focus on better urban planning so that over time we need fewer individual cars overall, and with cars, focus more on mileage efficiencies for ICEs and overall weights and sizes for safety reasons (most cars and trucks, especially EVS, are way too effing big), than forcing EV infrastructure to be built and letting cars grow to the size and weights of tanks.

Battery technology will improve and will become lighter. They're already working on that, and even other storage ideas for power.

Yes, all these early EVs are heavy as hell, but imagine once you can create all this electric power and the batteries way half as much as they do now? Or 1/4 as much as weight? It's coming. EVs and battery technology are in their infancy as a mass market idea. Way more R&D is being spent to figure this out, so expect rapid advancements over the next decade...so by the 3rd and 4th gen EVs, the numbers will be astonishing - 0 to 60 in 1.5 seconds, with a 500-mile range, and rapid charging from Empty to Full in 30 minutes!...with a lateral g of 1.3. Oh, and it seats 5 people comfortably

Then people buying those cars will laugh at our old ICE vehicles, which will have less performance and will be less efficient (and will have antiquated interior technology)...just like we wonder why those old guys in their '67 Cadillacs still like their antiquated tanks that get 11 mpg with an originally-sourced AM radio in the dash.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Fugly M3

We've already seen Toyota walking back EVs and focusing on hybrids near term.

To Toyota's credit, they have resisted EV's from the jump. They started the hybrid thing and are embracing it full stop. And they have publicly stated their dislike for EV's. Their EV is a total compliance car too.

So kudos for them to sticking to their guns.