[brava09]

Originally Posted by kgelfen360

It’s not really niche man. Do u drive 300 miles every single day? Most people don’t. I don’t have an EV yet but the fact that u plug in at home and it’s ready to go everyday is pretty nice. Is it for everyone. Not yet. But it will be….

People able to plug it at home is a niche market in the crowded EU. Most of them live in crowded cities with cars parked on the street at night.

[yousefnjr]

I’m open to it, depends on how it performs. Already have much worse range anxiety with ethanol

[guy_incognito1420]

Originally Posted by Bimmer5

Sure you may not have to go get gas but you can bet the cost will eventually be the same because the politicians will not let you get away without paying for the lost gas tax.

I pay less than $100/year in a “highway tax” on my i4.

I would spend that a week on gas so you might want to double check your math.

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by a1gio2

Just like the enthusiast market disintegrated with the G8X platform and everyone suddenly prefers automatic transmissions, the same will happen with these battery operated video game cars. I won't buy one ever, no matter how good the new era people say it is, but that's OK.

LOL

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

I think we should leave sport cars out of the EV formula there is a purity and an involvement that only ICE can replicate.

I don't know about that, Mat.

They said the same thing about the advent of automatics in sports cars (the "all sports cars should be manual!" crowd), but many enthusiasts got over that, especially with the advent of the DCT.

The purity argument is always subjective.

And since we know Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, Maserati, Alfa Romeo and Tesla are all developing EV sports cars, there could be some gems out of the bunch.

And oh, what about that 1,888 bhp and 1,696 lb-ft Rimac Nevera?

The world is changing, and it's hard for us to accept.

But the advent of quick-gear-changing automatics, turbochargers, and a plethora of driver aids hav also changed the world of sports cars so...

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” - No, we're not sure if Henry Ford actually ever said this, but the point is well taken.

Maybe this is better said by Steve Jobs: “Some people say, 'Give the customers what they want.' But that's not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want before they do. People don't know what they want until you show it to them. That's why I never rely on market research. Our task is to read things that are not yet on the page.”

[JMD]

Originally Posted by harperium

Saw this:

https://7news.com.au/motoring/next-b...mer-c-11885219

“The Neue Klasse [platform] will be a lot of [halos] because it has so much newness in it, combined in a way that we never did before – from technical capabilities to design language… I call it ‘all, all-new’.”

“This will be the best year for [BMW] M, ever. What is M for BMW? M is our ability to take something that is already quite good as a product, and make it even better,” Mr Weber continued.

“What is clear with Neue Klasse, the thing of enhancing or having a lighthouse project that stands for the new capabilities of a new generation is really crucial.”

“Therefore, the next M3 will be battery electric, fully battery electric. And, the Heart of Joy (the all-new Neue Klasse control unit) was designed for four independently operating electric machines up to 1 megawatt (1MW/1000kW).”

“We want to come with something where we show Neue Klasse is already very ambitious, but this is far above what people are used to today. This will come with [the] M3 and will not be too far away from the initial launch of Neue Klasse as a product line.”

Did I read that correctly? I mean,..."(1MW/1000kW)" of Power!

Folks, the game is clearly about to be changed! I'm thinking 0-60 less than 3-secs!

Just check out vids of the Rimac Nevera,...that thing is ballistic-fast!

[sward]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

I wonder how you will add some soul to it? Do they sell that at Wal-Mart?

I’m sure bmw won’t do it if it won’t be epic

[M2Cmtl]

I just have a hard time believing the deadlines. They had to throttle down Tesla chargers last winter during super cold days. Just not enough juice in the grid and resources to make all this happen so fast...

[TurboSid]

Aren't we dealing with ev cars currently in the 100kwh range? To go to 1MW is a massive leap isn't it? Where will you charge this behemoth?

[Buketz]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I mean, it’s not hard to see how this will all play out. We are in the middle of the first wave of EV push. In some areas of the world, it will stick. Most not. There will be pushback, compromise. Deadlines will get rescinded, political promises broken. People who want EV’s (yes, there are, I would gladly take an EV Cayenne if the charging network were equal to Tesla) will continue to adopt, it will get better. Cheaper. There will be another push. The grid will improve. We will burn less fossils and more renewables. Nuclear will make a comeback. More EV adoption will occur. We will start to really build the network. And so on.

I just roll my eyes when people on both sides of the coin make grand, bold, confident and all knowing statements, as if they can predict the future better than anyone. Right now our country is so divided politically we can’t even decide what freaking books belong in school libraries. Do you really think someone will let their ICE vehicles be snatched up in 7 years? Lol, HARDLY.

Yet the automakers see the path forward. 99% of the people buying cars DGAF. If they can charge it they will buy it. Long term EV’s will cost less to build and sell, and the automakers will make more money. They can see that. But we’re not there. Yet

I agree with everything you said but I just still want to be able to go vroom vroom! Ya know?

[Habs]

Originally Posted by Bimmer5

When I hear people say ICE is going away or it’s inevitable it makes me cringe, we the consumers are in charge here not some group of politicians. If you refuse to buy EV’s guess what they will not make them, or at very least they will be a niche market.
If you’re a ICE enthusiast why support the EV market, the whole premise of never seeing a gas station again. Sure you may not have to go get gas but you can bet the cost will eventually be the same because the politicians will not let you get away without paying for the lost gas tax.
EV’s are a hard NO from me.

+1
Switching all ICE transportion oil demand to electric would roughly double the daily electricity consumption in the US. Considering the low capacity factors of renewable power generation that our politicians want to use to replace all fossil fuel generators, it would require 10x the amount amount of electric generation installed capacity we currently have in the grid. It’s insanity. We’ll need cold fusion or a massive reduction in miles driven. Otherwise ICE is here to stay.

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by Bimmer5

When I hear people say ICE is going away or it’s inevitable it makes me cringe, we the consumers are in charge here not some group of politicians. If you refuse to buy EV’s guess what they will not make them, or at very least they will be a niche market.
If you’re a ICE enthusiast why support the EV market, the whole premise of never seeing a gas station again. Sure you may not have to go get gas but you can bet the cost will eventually be the same because the politicians will not let you get away without paying for the lost gas tax.
EV’s are a hard NO from me.

I think you’re missing one major point. The increase cost of gasoline due to the lower demand. As more and more cars become EV on the road and demand for gasoline decreases. Recently OPEC decreased oil production because of the demand is less now. Gas is still like almost $6 dollars in California and when I was in Nevada it was like $5 bucks lol.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-doubles-down-green-energy-opec-cuts-production-prices-soar.amp

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/06/05/opec-oil-prices-pop-after-saudi-arabia-pledges-production-cuts.html

At this rate, OPEC is going to shoot them selves in the foot. Eventually, gasoline prices would be ridiculously high and people would absolutely hate it and eventually be forced into an EV. If they really wanted to keep ICE alive, OPEC should not be decreasing supply of oil which causes panic and then keeps raising gas prices. If gas prices were ridiculously low, people would just keep their ICE cars and think “why do I want to spend 40-50k on a new car when I can run my ICE car for cheaper?”.

California already enacted an extra $100 dollars or something on EV registration fees to cover the gas tax gap.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

One of the biggest problem about EVs which nobody is talking about is the chronic shortage of "appropriately trained, suitably qualified and experienced" technicians for these rather temperamental fiery bundles of joy.

When they're ok, they're ok, when they're not, the cost of repairs is astronomical.

It takes milliseconds to roast an under-trained rookie techie with 800V of pure zapping flavour.

Where is any of this substantiated?

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by guy_incognito1420

Make the plunge we all strive to make.

BMW is but a gateway drug for Porsche.

I'm sorry, but I cannot disagree with this take enough. The brands are what they are. There is little crossover. Porsche makes no product to compete with 80% or more of BMW's offering.

Where is their G80 competitor?

[Aalfred]

Well I hope they dont jack up the price too high that the M3 EV version will cost upwards of $100K. The I4 M50 is coming close to $75-80K and you can get a Tesla S Plaid now for 90K and with it the charging network. EA charging network is horrendous and with more and more EV's coming to the market from every manufacturers, soon the charging networks will be overwhelmed and the ICE cars will make a comeback...lol. Right now, the Tesla Plaid looks more appealing if you are looking for an EV Fast car with a reasonable budget !!!

If these manufacturers try to push the EV too much on us, they will soon find out when demand goes down significantly and dealers start complaining about unsold cars in their lots. Look at whats happening to Ford EV now. Hope they learn their lessons and cater their product to what the market demands and not the other way around !!!

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by JMD

Did I read that correctly? I mean,..."(1MW/1000kW)" of Power!

Folks, the game is clearly about to be changed! I'm thinking 0-60 less than 3-secs!

Just check out vids of the Rimac Nevera,...that thing is ballistic-fast!

Meh.

In 10 years, lightness will be the new power.

Originally Posted by Buketz

I agree with everything you said but I just still want to be able to go vroom vroom! Ya know?

Completely understood. People still ride horses too, and really enjoy it.

Originally Posted by TurboSid

Aren't we dealing with ev cars currently in the 100kwh range? To go to 1MW is a massive leap isn't it? Where will you charge this behemoth?

100 kWh is a unit of energy storage / potential energy.

1MW is a unit of power output. 1 MW = 1,341 HP. The article is discussing the power output of the 4 electric motors and their system, not the amount of storage in the battery.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Bimmer5

When I hear people say ICE is going away or it’s inevitable it makes me cringe, we the consumers are in charge here not some group of politicians. If you refuse to buy EV’s guess what they will not make them, or at very least they will be a niche market.
If you’re a ICE enthusiast why support the EV market, the whole premise of never seeing a gas station again. Sure you may not have to go get gas but you can bet the cost will eventually be the same because the politicians will not let you get away without paying for the lost gas tax.
EV’s are a hard NO from me.

EV’s are taxes through the extra tab cost

I pay $225 per year in fees regardless of the miles I drive the car, and that goes straight towards road maintenance

Also the money I save on fuel monthly supplements the cost of ownership of my lovely m-car

Having at least one EV is a no brainer for me and I’m currently on my 5th EV in 10 years timeframe

[NotSharocks]

I'm glad I didn't sell any of my M3s for even a G8X.

Holy shit this is the end.

What a way to go BMW, buck toothed and fat.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by besfa001

He also said a gas and electric M3 would both be available…..

Yes of course

It’s an adaptive platform

A little something for everyone

[BzsBimmer]

Originally Posted by m2for2

I totally agree with this.

The Democratic People's Republic of California (DPRC) already charges over $100 per YEAR extrato drive an EV when you renew your annual registration because "they aren't making revenue off of you from gas taxes".

My $50,000 Model 3 Performance was almost $800 per year for registration, every single year of the 4 years I owned it.

Absolutely insane.

That’s not a true depiction of why you paid so much.
Regardless of whether it’s an ICE or hybrid or EV, CA registration tax is based on vehicle price, hence the 50k = $700.
The extra $100 is a bargain compared to what you would pay in annual gas usage tax. It is an extra hundred dollars, not discounting that bite, but let’s be fair in why we pay such high registration fees.

I own two Teslas and this M3. I should be complaining more about my registration fees than you 😁

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I mean, it’s not hard to see how this will all play out. We are in the middle of the first wave of EV push. In some areas of the world, it will stick. Most not. There will be pushback, compromise. Deadlines will get rescinded, political promises broken. People who want EV’s (yes, there are, I would gladly take an EV Cayenne if the charging network were equal to Tesla) will continue to adopt, it will get better. Cheaper. There will be another push. The grid will improve. We will burn less fossils and more renewables. Nuclear will make a comeback. More EV adoption will occur. We will start to really build the network. And so on.

I just roll my eyes when people on both sides of the coin make grand, bold, confident and all knowing statements, as if they can predict the future better than anyone. Right now our country is so divided politically we can’t even decide what freaking books belong in school libraries. Do you really think someone will let their ICE vehicles be snatched up in 7 years? Lol, HARDLY.

Yet the automakers see the path forward. 99% of the people buying cars DGAF. If they can charge it they will buy it. Long term EV’s will cost less to build and sell, and the automakers will make more money. They can see that. But we’re not there. Yet

I think this is probably right. I also think the pushback you mentioned will be quite big because until the grid can handle it (until we get serious about nuclear power) it just won't work and many people won't go for low range vehicles. It may actually cause long term resentment with people who give it a try and then just say, "nope, can't do it." I can count on more than one hand ex-Tesla drivers who have that complaint. It's roughly the group I'm in. I'd happily go get an EV - especially as an SUV replacement. But for me, it's got to be 500 real miles in 5 minutes and it has to be able to tow the boat - both of which my LR Discovery Td6 does flawlessly. We're just not there yet.

This is where I think there's danger for the automotive companies. I actually think one or more may bet so heavily on EVs that they end up bankrupt at the end of the first wave and not able to make it to wave two. I have no idea which manufacturer it will be, but I think it's quite possible. We've already seen Toyota walking back EVs and focusing on hybrids near term. Ford, meanwhile, has all but acknowledged a major whoops on the F150 lightning.

As for the Neue Klasse M3, who knows and we'll see. I'm sure it'd have no problem selling, albeit to a possibly different demographic than the traditional M3 buyer. All I can say is it better be able to handle the full day Nurburgring Lapping sessions I love to attend with BMW. If not, it'll be a flop in my book.

[m2for2]

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

That’s not a true depiction of why you paid so much.
Regardless of whether it’s an ICE or hybrid or EV, CA registration tax is based on vehicle price, hence the 50k = $700.
The extra $100 is a bargain compared to what you would pay in annual gas usage tax. It is an extra hundred dollars, not discounting that bite, but let’s be fair in why we pay such high registration fees.

I own two Teslas and this M3. I should be complaining more about my registration fees than you 😁

There is no reason why we pay such high registration fees. I've lived in other states and registration is consistently <$100 per year (even for expensive cars).

California even charged me to have a veteran emblem printed on my drivers license.

The roads here are terrible and we far pay more to the DMV than any other state.

Lastly, they say they want "mass EV adoption" - even going as far to ban gasoline powered car sales. But then they add an extra 3 figure annual tax onto them every year?

Just my thoughts having lived here 25 years. Can't wait to get back outta this dump haha.