07-20-2023, 10:35 AM | #45 | |
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HAARP exist, weather altering aerosols exist - its not science fiction or a conspiracy, it is taboo because "smart man in lab coat says otherwise"
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07-20-2023, 10:43 AM | #46 | |
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I never said that there is no degradation. There most certainly is. But the truth is that there is massive amount of data which shows that the dropoff is about 15% over a 5-10 year period and most of that comes in the first 10-20k miles or so and then significantly levels out. And yes, the price of used EV's does reflect battery degradation. You can pretty easily get a report if you know what to ask. As for the limitations of "using it as an actual car", believe me, they aren't nearly as bad as most people make it out to be. |
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07-20-2023, 10:45 AM | #47 |
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EV growth is a result of an aggressive media and incentive push, which includes coercion, credits and preferred rates and free press. It's not organic.
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07-20-2023, 10:46 AM | #48 | |
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07-20-2023, 10:48 AM | #49 |
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Yeah, that's the best you have.
You're getting your talking points from the media and relying on someone else to form your opinion because they are an "expert" (what does that even mean?) Are you not able to critically think for yourself or understand how and why people may disagree? 5 years ago, polar ice caps were growing in size, this is despite claims of world heating over the past 50 years. How is that possible?
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07-20-2023, 11:21 AM | #50 |
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This is a difficult milestone for many M fans.
The decision to own an M vehicle could be easily traced to a complex, yet predictable formula: style, performance, engine acoustics, exhaust acoustics, handling, "can take it to the track if I want to ...", and //M(any) other personal factors included in the formula. I recently drove Taycan Turbo S. Ignoring the price for a moment, my condensed test drive report: neck-snapping acceleration, crisp steering, respectable handling (nothing one can do about the extra weight shifting during tight turns). Would I buy now? No - as long as I can buy the current M3/4, M5 or M8. Engine and exhaust acoustics matter. The absence of real, non-digitized engine acoustics and exhaust acoustics served as a stark reminder of what's ahead. Electric cars can deliver near supercar performance. The absence of engine and exhaust acoustics is a change and everyone's willingness to accept this change will vary. If you want an M vehicle using the current formula to make the purchase decision, get one soon. |
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07-20-2023, 11:31 AM | #51 |
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I don't know what it means when someone says they don't believe in climate change. Do you mean you don't believe in the climate changing because of human activity?
The climate is changing. Full stop. Sea levels are rising. Global temps are rising. Weather is more extreme. Draughts are longer. Wildfires are stronger and burn longer. Floods are more common. We have the data on all of this. Also, as someone called it the "Dino juice", the fossil fuels... guess what... it is finite. It will run out. Maybe not for a 100 years but at some point we will just have to deal with weening ourselves off of it. And yes, a transition sucks, it can suck now or it can suck in a 100 years for a different generation, but as a human species we will have to get through it. Despite what people are saying, no one is shoving an EV transition down our throats. Similar to the advent of oil and gas usage, the development, refinement and innovation of battery tech will take a while. Solid-state batteries will be a thing. Energy density is increasing year-over-year. Weight reductions are coming. I don't understand why this new stuff is so threatening to some people. And I don't understand AT ALL why new technologies would have to have zero impact on the environment and zero impact on animals and wildlife. Like what? Since when? When humans built their first oil rig? Did we all cry foul over how many birds or fish it would kill? Give me a break. We all need to take a breath. Let the technology evolve. If you want to buy solar panels for your home and want an EV go do it. If not, fine. No one's making you. |
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07-20-2023, 11:36 AM | #52 | |
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07-20-2023, 11:38 AM | #53 |
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My bet is hybrid like the XM, and wouldn’t be surprised if they extend the ICE life cycle like they have announced for the Z4 (although that was only 5 months IIRC). Too bad they can’t shrink the car a bit to cut weight if they do go the hybrid route. This probably depends on legislation.
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07-20-2023, 11:39 AM | #54 | |
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07-20-2023, 11:39 AM | #55 |
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There are always going to be political and media pushes on government agenda. That is the world we live in no matter which "side" it is pushing. ICE do have an expiration date as sad as that is. I don't believe EV's are the answer. I actually hate EV's and I hate Tesla the most of all. The carbon footprint of these batteries and what happens to them when they are used up will be the next environmental disaster. The mines that have been built are already destroying their local areas. How many natural resources will it take to make the world EV only and what will we have to do to get them? Furthermore there is not enough electricity to power EV's on a worldwide stage. Then where is most electricity coming from...… carbon emitting power plants. If you can't see the bigger picture I don't know what to tell you. The answer is not EV's. Synthetic fuel like what Porsche is doing in Chile is a step in the right direction or fuel cell like Toyota or maybe hydrogen. Who knows. At the end of the day I personally don't look at EV's being the answer or the future. They are the present and sometime in the future EV's will be viewed upon as "dirty". Personal opinion of course.
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07-20-2023, 11:41 AM | #56 |
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Just please DONT do a damn I4 hybrid like some other companies!
If it’s a hybrid it should be a tiny electric motor that hardly adds any weight to help with low end power. To me either stick with gas or go full electric, hybrids are the all season tires of engines, not good at anything. |
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07-20-2023, 11:42 AM | #57 |
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Not saying many M drivers actually track their cars but a lot of tracks are banning electric cars because they are impossible to put out in case of crash/fire. There was some chat about Porsche Caymen going all electric and how many Caymen owners won’t upgrade because they can’t bring their new electric Caymen to the track. Maybe M division should go electric on 3/4 series M but leave M2 for gas for track duty. Unless they cut over to solid state batteries which seem to be more stable. But who knows.
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07-20-2023, 11:43 AM | #58 | |
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How much power does an ICE lose as it gets out of tune with age? Regardless, it is what it is. Yes, there is loss in capacity. If you want an EV, that's something you have to accept. I didn't re-up for another EV because I want the technology to start maturing. Tesla, BMW and to a certain extent GM are really the only manufacturers with history of mass selling EV's. And Tesla is run like a drunken Circus. I'm out for now. I'm not pushing EV's as some kind of savior. I'm very realistic about what they are and aren't. Just letting you know that those particular concerns aren't necessarily true. |
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07-20-2023, 11:48 AM | #59 | |
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So many studies showing that electric isn’t what it’s advertised at, for the majority of people it’s NOT lowering their carbon footprint, only at 80,000 miles does it’s full environmental impact overtake gas engines and will they really be driven past that? It’s battery won’t last and then you are resetting the impact again when buying a new battery. And resale will be horrible. Electric cars are like iPhones, they will eventually lose more residual per year than gas cars ever did. No one will want used electric cars. Maybe solid state batteries will change things but I am not buying a car that is only guaranteed to have 75% battery life after 3 years, what a joke. Imagine if you were told your gas car would only get 75% range and lose power after 3 years. |
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07-20-2023, 12:04 PM | #60 |
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07-20-2023, 12:10 PM | #61 | ||||||
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Name one person who was back then to observe and record this data. I'll wait. Quote:
Weather is more extreme. Draughts are longer. Wildfires are stronger and burn longer. Floods are more common. We have the data on all of this. Quote:
A lot of new oil comes from old oil fields that have been redrilled. Quote:
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https://www.shellenergy.co.uk/blog/p...ture-of-energy Quote:
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07-20-2023, 12:12 PM | #62 | |
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Own with full Akro is Bad!! The AA EQ mid helped. But I would never say it’s a good sounding car. The G series is a smidge better but again, the B58’s are way better in my opinion. Like you said, everyone enjoys different things. |
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07-20-2023, 12:19 PM | #63 | |
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A Tesla X Plaid has an enormously heavy battery and despite the horsepower to weight ratio being solid and “fast”, watch any professional race car driver take a Tesla out on the track and they all complain about the weight of the car. There is only so much power and capacity you can pack into a battery and 30 liters of fuel, is 30 liters of fuel. You get the same power with 30, as you do with 5 remaining. A dead battery weighs just as much as a full one. |
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07-20-2023, 12:26 PM | #64 |
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I went to college in Utah in the 90's. The Mormon church leaders loved to brag about their fast growth rates (I doubt rates were factually true but anyway). If those growth rates had been sustained, the entire world population would be Mormon by now. So I highly doubt today's BEV growth rate will carry on much longer.
1 EV battery weighs ~ 1000 to 2000 lbs. This requires mining and processing of 200,000 to 400,000 lbs of ore. The mining and processing of this ore has a carbon (and destructive environmental) footprint. It's hard to calculate with precision, but it is most definitely not zero. Also, the amount of mining and processing increases with time, because over the decades, all the "easy" mines are used up, and they have to dig deeper. So the cost of the rare earth elements will only increase. The Toyota argument: 1 EV battery could make 30 to 50 hybrid cars. Over the lifetime of these cars, the hybrid cars would save a LOT more carbon than 1 EV. |
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07-20-2023, 12:28 PM | #65 |
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Like the CEO said, it can be anything for us as well. We may like the direction BMW chooses, we may not. We may buy or we may lease or we may choose another brand. In the end, there are always going to be options for the buyers but a wrong decision by a CEO may sink the ship with him at the helm..
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07-20-2023, 12:29 PM | #66 |
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"Very soon the only advantage ICE vehicles will have is their soundtrack."
I totally agree; in the near future a majority of cars will be EV. But some of us still have 2 channel stereos connected to record players; just preference. ICE cars will still be here for decades. |
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