[gohawks23]

Originally Posted by SW17LS

I have considered the same thing, but theres not a lot of money to be made there.

Yeah I'm 'retired' so anything made would be happy hour $! Haha

[David70]

I find the whole idea behind the question of what is best financial decision (lease or purchase) when it comes to luxury vehicles a ridiculous debate.

If anyone were actually trying to make the best financial decision they wouldn't drive a BMW, whether new/used, lease/purchase.

The "I'm leasing an $80k vehicle because I know how to make money work for me" isn't close to correct, you lease an $80k vehicle because you wanted it and don't care that it isn't the best financial decision no matter how it ends up in your garage.

[SW17LS]

Originally Posted by David70

I find the whole idea behind the question of what is best financial decision (lease or purchase) when it comes to luxury vehicles a ridiculous debate.

If anyone were actually trying to make the best financial decision they wouldn't drive a BMW, whether new/used, lease/purchase.

The "I'm leasing an $80k vehicle because I know how to make money work for me" isn't close to correct, you lease an $80k vehicle because you wanted it and don't care that it isn't the best financial decision no matter how it ends up in your garage.

None of us have denied any of that. Life is not just about doing what is the most financially responsible thing though. The decision to not pay cash for an $80,000 vehicle so as to let that $80k continue to earn returns beyond the cost of borrowing the money is a way of mitigating the financial cost of driving an $80k vehicle.

[Revan]

Originally Posted by SW17LS

None of us have denied any of that. Life is not just about doing what is the most financially responsible thing though. The decision to not pay cash for an $80,000 vehicle so as to let that $80k continue to earn returns beyond the cost of borrowing the money is a way of mitigating the financial cost of driving an $80k vehicle.

+1 Just because we could stroke a check (because we can afford the car either way) doesn't mean there aren't better i.e. higher yield options.

[AiredaleDad]

Originally Posted by David70

I find the whole idea behind the question of what is best financial decision (lease or purchase) when it comes to luxury vehicles a ridiculous debate.

If anyone were actually trying to make the best financial decision they wouldn't drive a BMW, whether new/used, lease/purchase.

The "I'm leasing an $80k vehicle because I know how to make money work for me" isn't close to correct, you lease an $80k vehicle because you wanted it and don't care that it isn't the best financial decision no matter how it ends up in your garage.

Right! I know people struggling to bring home a $15,000.00 10 year old car. But I was there once too. So I know what they are going through. Listen to us squabbling over leasing ot owning an $80K car. Straight up. Some people own because they can and want to. Some lease because they can and they want to, or their company pays for it. Other people lease because they would like to own, but are not in a financial position to do so. And that's fine. Just don't try to mask it by calling it something else, and trying to talk down to people who own. Just do you, and I'll do me.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by David70

I find the whole idea behind the question of what is best financial decision (lease or purchase) when it comes to luxury vehicles a ridiculous debate.

If anyone were actually trying to make the best financial decision they wouldn't drive a BMW, whether new/used, lease/purchase.

The "I'm leasing an $80k vehicle because I know how to make money work for me" isn't close to correct, you lease an $80k vehicle because you wanted it and don't care that it isn't the best financial decision no matter how it ends up in your garage.

This made me laugh. 🤭

[AiredaleDad]

Originally Posted by avi66

This made me laugh. 🤭

What I find laughable also is the strides some people will go to to justify their decision. If you want to drive an $80,000.00 car, find a way to get it. Either buy it, or lease it, or steal it (No, on second thought, don't do that). Whatever you do, you don't have to go all over yourself again and again to explain to us why you made the decision. It's not like anyone is going to see you in a parking lot, or gas/charging station and ask if you own it or lease it. That would just be rude. Trust me, your neighbors probably know. Or can make an educated guess. Almost nobody moves up from a 2012 Honda to an $80K 2025 BMW. If they do, they either won the lottery, saved for a lot of years, inherited money they didn't need, or changed jobs to a company who leased it. It would stand out like a sore thumb in their neighborhood, because nobody else around them in the same income bracket would have anything remotely like it.

People tend to be creatures of habit. Smart ones stay within their means. And if they are within their means, the car they drive normally reflects that. Most of the time if you drive through a neighborhood, and you see the cars in people's driveways you can figure out the average income of the families there. While there are exceptions, those are few.

So please stop using this as a platform to justify why you leased your car instead of buying it, or Vise-Versa. Nobody cares. If you leased it and got a really good deal, share the details of it. Others may want to take advantage of the knowledge. But nobody cares if you leased because your employer paid for it, or you could not afford it otherwise, or you are really super rich, but want to use your buckets of extra disposable income to make more money. I don't care if you want to trade your lease into a new one every 2 or 3 years, or keep your purchased car for 10 years or more. Enjoy your new Luxury car because that's what you feel like driving, and you found a way to make it happen. Congratulations. But pleeeeeease quit boring us with your endless need to justify it to yourself and to everyone else. We will likely never meet. You are probably not one of my friends, and likely not in my social circle, So I just don't care.

[David70]

Originally Posted by avi66

This made me laugh. 🤭

I'm not sure why but I'm surprised you bothered to post this.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by AiredaleDad

What I find laughable also is the strides some people will go to to justify their decision. If you want to drive an $80,000.00 car, find a way to get it. Either buy it, or lease it, or steal it (No, on second thought, don't do that). Whatever you do, you don't have to go all over yourself again and again to explain to us why you made the decision. It's not like anyone is going to see you in a parking lot, or gas/charging station and ask if you own it or lease it. That would just be rude. Trust me, your neighbors probably know. Or can make an educated guess. Almost nobody moves up from a 2012 Honda to an $80K 2025 BMW. If they do, they either won the lottery, saved for a lot of years, inherited money they didn't need, or changed jobs to a company who leased it. It would stand out like a sore thumb in their neighborhood, because nobody else around them in the same income bracket would have anything remotely like it.

People tend to be creatures of habit. Smart ones stay within their means. And if they are within their means, the car they drive normally reflects that. Most of the time if you drive through a neighborhood, and you see the cars in people's driveways you can figure out the average income of the families there. While there are exceptions, those are few.

So please stop using this as a platform to justify why you leased your car instead of buying it, or Vise-Versa. Nobody cares. If you leased it and got a really good deal, share the details of it. Others may want to take advantage of the knowledge. But nobody cares if you leased because your employer paid for it, or you could not afford it otherwise, or you are really super rich, but want to use your buckets of extra disposable income to make more money. I don't care if you want to trade your lease into a new one every 2 or 3 years, or keep your purchased car for 10 years or more. Enjoy your new Luxury car because that's what you feel like driving, and you found a way to make it happen. Congratulations. But pleeeeeease quit boring us with your endless need to justify it to yourself and to everyone else. We will likely never meet. You are probably not one of my friends, and likely not in my social circle, So I just don't care.

But isn't the point of this thread to discuss why so many bMW drivers lease? Are not all the points you don't want to hear pertinent to the topic? I leased hundreds of BMWs in my over 47-years as a BMW dealer employee—but not for me! Once you decide that a BMW is the car for you, leasing is just one of the ways to consider getting it. I don't get why that discussion is so hard for you to tolerate. Someone holding a gun to your head making you participate in the thread?

[ipilcher]

Originally Posted by Revan

+1 Just because we could stroke a check (because we can afford the car either way) doesn't mean there aren't better i.e. higher yield options.

I've been resisting posting in this thread, but please share the risk-free investment options that yield more than the rate on a car loan/lease. (I know that a lease doesn't have a straightforward interest rate, but it's in there.)

Also, please point out the section of the tax code that allows one to deduct the cost of one's personal vehicle just because one owns a business. Otherwise, the investment needs to yield significantly more than the rate on the loan/lease to account for the pre-tax/post-tax difference.

[David70]

Originally Posted by ipilcher

I've been resisting posting in this thread, but please share the risk-free investment options that yield more than the rate on a car loan/lease. (I know that a lease doesn't have a straightforward interest rate, but it's in there.)

Also, please point out the section of the tax code that allows one to deduct the cost of one's personal vehicle just because one owns a business. Otherwise, the investment needs to yield significantly more than the rate on the loan/lease to account for the pre-tax/post-tax difference.

Agree on the rate of return of something else. Also add that whatever the investment brings in will be subject to taxes, reducing the net result. Guessing most will want to point out the potential return of their somewhat risky investment to the zero risk return of the avoided loan..

Next one that bothers me is when someone says the amount of the lease/loan (I had a $80k example), allows them to invest the $80k over the term of the lease/loan. This is wrong, your monthly payments for the lease/loan need to be taken out of the amount you avoided in the beginning. At the end of the lease, cash buyer spent $80k, lease buyer some percentage of this, it's not $80k vs $0.

[AiredaleDad]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

But isn't the point of this thread to discuss why so many bMW drivers lease? Are not all the points you don't want to hear pertinent to the topic? I leased hundreds of BMWs in my over 47-years as a BMW dealer employee—but not for me! Once you decide that a BMW is the car for you, leasing is just one of the ways to consider getting it. I don't get why that discussion is so hard for you to tolerate. Someone holding a gun to your head making you participate in the thread?

Agreed. But what I don't like is how buyers try to put down lessees, and lessees try to put down buyers. By now everyone knows why Lessees, lease, and why Buyers, buy. And that's fine, but just because someone doesn't acquire their new BMW the same way you do, doesn't make it right for you to try justifying your reasons by putting down someone else's.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by David70

I'm not sure why but I'm surprised you bothered to post this.

Just as pointless as your post in a thread about why people leasing BMW’s.

[David70]

Originally Posted by avi66

Just as pointless as your post in a thread about why people leasing BMW’s.

Feel free to point out anything that I said that isn't correct.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by David70

Feel free to point out anything that I said that isn't correct.

This thread isn’t about what’s the best use of $80k for financial investment. It’s about why do BMW drivers lease, hence, no one is debating if spending $80k on a BMW is a good use of cash, or buying a new BMW is financially better than keeping an old BMW. So what was the point of your post ?

It cost me less to use BMW PCP for my discretionary spend on a new BMW, compared to paying cash upfront. If I choose to keep the car after the term ends, it still cost me £k’s less than if I’d paid in full upfront. So, for me that was the best use of my cash for this car.

Hence, your statement that the cost is the same at the end is incorrect in my case. The fixed BMW PCP % rate is much lower than the zero risk FSCS protected saving % on the cash saved over the term.

I choose to spend on a new BMW, which I can afford, plus I don’t want an old BMW. It’s personal choice, based on personal circumstances and priorities.

YMMV.

[SW17LS]

Originally Posted by Revan

+1 Just because we could stroke a check (because we can afford the car either way) doesn't mean there aren't better i.e. higher yield options.

Exactly. Its a way to manage the aquisition of the car in the most cost friendly way possible,

Originally Posted by AiredaleDad

Just don't try to mask it by calling it something else, and trying to talk down to people who own. Just do you, and I'll do me.

Issue is people who drive old cars love to tout that they are financially more savvy than those of us who are happy to spend on new expensive cars we enjoy. IMO they are compensating because they really would prefer to have a new car but either can't or can't get past their financial hangups to get what they want. You never see people with new cars posting "why do people buy old cars?" its the other way around.

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

But isn't the point of this thread to discuss why so many bMW drivers lease? Are not all the points you don't want to hear pertinent to the topic? I leased hundreds of BMWs in my over 47-years as a BMW dealer employee—but not for me! Once you decide that a BMW is the car for you, leasing is just one of the ways to consider getting it. I don't get why that discussion is so hard for you to tolerate. Someone holding a gun to your head making you participate in the thread?

Exactly, its just an interesting discussion. I for one am not trying to justify anything, just explaining why I make the choices I make as an example.

Originally Posted by ipilcher

I've been resisting posting in this thread, but please share the risk-free investment options that yield more than the rate on a car loan/lease. (I know that a lease doesn't have a straightforward interest rate, but it's in there.)

Also, please point out the section of the tax code that allows one to deduct the cost of one's personal vehicle just because one owns a business. Otherwise, the investment needs to yield significantly more than the rate on the loan/lease to account for the pre-tax/post-tax difference.

There is no such thing as a risk free investment, but there are investments that are very low risk. Its pretty simple though, if you return on ANY investment and the cost to liquidate that investment is higher than the interest cost to borrow the money then its more cost effective to borrow the money. If the interest cost is higher than that return then it may not be. Thats a value judgement you have to look at your own finances to make for yourself.

As for deducting a vehicle. When you own a business you have the opportunity to deduct many costs you would also have if you did not own a business...I am able to deduct vehicles, cell phone service, utilities, health insurance costs, a portion of my home used as an office, meals...the list goes on and on. If you own a vehicle and you use that vehicle in the course of your business then you can write a portion of the cost of operating that vehicle off. What percentage depends on your use and your tolerance for risk. I write 100% of my personal car (the S580) off as a business expense, I own other vehicles that I can substantiate that I use for personal use. That means all the costs associated with that vehicle are tax deductible, lease payments, fuel, insurance, carwashes, repairs, maintenance, tires, modifications, accessories, parking costs...on and on.

When you get really advanced your business can lease or purchase the car on its own and write those costs off before you are ever even paid any personal income.

[David70]

Originally Posted by avi66

This thread isn’t about what’s the best use of $80k for financial investment. It’s about why do BMW drivers lease, hence, no one is debating if spending $80k on a BMW is a good use of cash. So what was the point of your post ?

It cost me less to use BMW PCP for my discretionary spend on a new BMW, compared to paying cash upfront. If I choose to keep the car after the term, it still cost me £k’s less if I’d paid in full upfront. So, for me that was the best use of my cash for this car.

Hence, your statement that the cost is the same at the end is incorrect in my case.

There are a number of posts pointing out the "value" in leasing a BMW, it lends itself to discussing value however I want. You pointing out that you believe in your case leasing a BMW makes more sense than purchasing a BMW doesn't change it.

Hence, your statement that the cost is the same at the end is incorrect in my case.

The one thing you tried to point out that I have wrong and it isn't something I said.

IF you want a new BMW AND you are going to replace it every 3-4 years either way I agree leasing it might be the best way to do it. That is a large part of the reason people lease BMW's. They also like forever having a car that doesn't need much maintenance and no repair, mostly concerned with the monthly payment and don't care about the overall long term cost.

Why I will never do it - I like to keep my cars longer and I don't want contracts and hassles that come with a lease telling me what I can and can't do. I buy a car and drive off, I can sell it a year from now or 7 years from now, I don't have any concern about the contractual date it ends, miles allowed, return inspection, monthly payments, residual, money factor, down payment or other.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by David70

There are a number of posts pointing out the "value" in leasing a BMW, it lends itself to discussing value however I want. You pointing out that you believe in your case leasing a BMW makes more sense than purchasing a BMW doesn't change it.

The one thing you tried to point out that I have wrong and it isn't something I said.

Granted it just saved me £k’s and I get to enjoy a nice new BMW.

Horses for courses, I wouldn’t want a modern BMW out of warranty, hence change regularly.

I have other cars purchased outright, but these cost much less when things go wrong over many years of ownership.

[SW17LS]

Originally Posted by David70

IF you want a new BMW AND you are going to replace it every 3-4 years either way I agree leasing it might be the best way to do it. That is a large part of the reason people lease BMW's. They also like forever having a car that doesn't need much maintenance and no repair, mostly concerned with the monthly payment and don't care about the overall long term cost.

Thats literally what we have all said verbatim...

[David70]

Originally Posted by SW17LS

Thats literally what we have all said verbatim...

That's great, I didn't bother to read 9 pages of posts but glad you agree with me.

Strange how much what i have posted seems to bother some when most of what I have posted is exactly what others already said!

[Rob_G77]

Originally Posted by AiredaleDad

Right! I know people struggling to bring home a $15,000.00 10 year old car. But I was there once too. So I know what they are going through. Listen to us squabbling over leasing ot owning an $80K car. Straight up. Some people own because they can and want to. Some lease because they can and they want to, or their company pays for it. Other people lease because they would like to own, but are not in a financial position to do so. And that's fine. Just don't try to mask it by calling it something else, and trying to talk down to people who own. Just do you, and I'll do me.

There's very little incentive to lease a BMW in Canada. The lower rates are very misleading because BMW is still significantly padding their bottom line with low residual values. 4 year leases have been the the standard here for a long time now. Nobody leases 3 years because the payments are usually significantly higher. If a person just wants to get the car with cheapest payment, financing is the choice, but it will leave you suffocating under a mountain of negative equity.

It costs about 50% more to lease now than it did 4 years ago too. That $1000/month payment is now over $1500/month for same model (X3 M40i). Used sales are hot, new sales are dead.

Rob

[SW17LS]

Originally Posted by David70

That's great, I didn't bother to read 9 pages of posts but glad you agree with me.

Strange how much what i have posted seems to bother some when most of what I have posted is exactly what others already said!

The issue is when people can't see past their own values and their own situation and preferences. People just automatically go to the idea that any decision that isn't the decision they would have made is wrong.