08-13-2024, 10:42 AM | #155 |
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Yeah personally, I like new cars that I know haven't been driven and abused before. Especially with BMW too the leases are so good.
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08-14-2024, 08:08 AM | #156 | |
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08-14-2024, 08:28 AM | #157 | |
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The key is what do they cost new, and what will they cost at 2 years old. In my case I was looking at the prices of a 2022 540iX and I could get a new 2024 for just a few thousand more + Tax Free while I am here + lower, if any used car tax when I ship it back to the states (Depends on the state and how old the car is when I ship it back). Plus I was looking at all the advantages of owning a new car now, and paying it off, then buying my wife a new car when we got back to the US, and it all clicked. So I ordered my new car. It was seeing how the Sales Reps treat the cars during the test drives, by not respecting the break-in periods, and hearing what Lessees say on this forum about how they treat their Leases, that made me remember some of the initial issues I had when I bought my CPO cars that are leading me to believe I am better off buying from now on. |
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08-17-2024, 09:02 PM | #158 |
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08-19-2024, 05:07 PM | #160 |
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Judging by the types of people I saw at BMW house at Monterey Car Week...
Because the overwhelming majority of BMW drivers are fake rich and leasing is the only way they'd be able to be seen behind the wheel of a higher status car.
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08-21-2024, 10:48 AM | #161 |
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08-21-2024, 10:56 AM | #162 |
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Most BMW leases these days on ICE vehicles just aren't 'good'. ICE leases now generally have high MF, low RVs and minimal incentives. Make sure you actually know how to lease and be able to put together your own target payment and DAS with a lease calc or spreadsheet...or the dealer will take advantage of you!
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08-21-2024, 10:59 AM | #163 | |
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08-21-2024, 11:15 AM | #164 |
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Numbers (MF, RV, incentives) change monthly amongst all brands/models so that statement doesn't really mean much. More importantly, when shopping people should really know how to put a lease payment/DAS together so they can do the comparisons with real data. So many people who lease have no idea how to calculate a payment/DAS and get taken for a ride.
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08-21-2024, 02:57 PM | #165 | |
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I am as experienced a leaser as you will find and can calculate everything, on anything I have shopped BMWs still lease the best. I could have had a same MSRP 760 for $400 a month less than I'm paying for my S580, for example.X7 and X5 are also considerably cheaper to lease than a comparable GLE or GLS. |
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08-21-2024, 04:05 PM | #166 |
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Well BMW leases used to be no brainers in TCO vs finance/cash and that isn't the case for awhile now. I've been writing checks for heavily discounted low mileage one year old CPOs with 4yr unlimited mileage warranties these days which makes more fiscal sense than current 'luxury' ICE leases.
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08-21-2024, 05:02 PM | #167 | |
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08-21-2024, 05:21 PM | #168 |
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It's just leasing 101 stuff that can easily be googled but people don't put time in to understand so they end up handing extra 1000s to dealers...basically how to put a lease spreadsheet together or just use a lease calculator to come up with your own target payment/DAS. Pretty simple stuff really...get base MF and term RV from Edmunds lease forums and plug into calc along with expected discount off MSRP along with any incentives and know the target payment/DAS long before even engaging with a dealer. MSDs also can provide a good ROI reducing the MF.
Leasehackr wiki is a good site to learn at. I've thought about starting up a consulting biz to help people with their leases for a fee. It is truly amazing how many people sign lease contracts without a clue how the numbers work! Leases are the best thing auto dealers ever came up with to rake profits in from the uneducated. Last edited by gohawks23; 08-21-2024 at 05:35 PM.. |
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08-21-2024, 06:22 PM | #169 | |
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Most had things the wife would never use, like towing package, roof crossbars, moonroof, etc. We ordered exactly what we wanted in the exterior and interior colors she chose. probably knocked a couple thousand off the price. Then I took 0% financing. Now that dealers are cutting the number of cars on lots, I think they are more amenable to special orders. When it comes to buying a car that has been beat on, that is always possibility. And some cars are more likely to be abused on test drives, than others. Still, the whole "break-in" thing may be a bit exaggerated. I've bought lots of new cars and never paid it any mind. Abuse is a whole other thing. Which leads me to when I bought my GT500. The SA took me to the filling station for a full tank of premium. On the way back I took a left turn from a light in a power slide and the dude looked like this:
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08-22-2024, 04:03 AM | #170 |
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I firmly believe that whether you lease or buy a car, it's important to do your homework. Research the car, the prices, go on Edmunds or KBB. Then look at what kind of financing you can get. If you walk in knowing yo have a pre-approved check in your pocket (Don't tell the SA that) and a firm price in your head that you simply WILL NOT GO OVER! you can get a good deal. But you have to be willing to walk away. Use the salesman as a tool to show you the car, test drive it, and grant you access to the FM, not a fountain of information. He wants to make that commission. It's a game. I learned the tricks of the trade, not to sell cars, but not to be taken advantage of.
When you walk in as an "UP!" and just say oooh Pretty, he has the upper hand. Don't ask him how much. Tell him what you want. Don't ask his advice, tell him your wants and don't wants. If he breaks out the 4 square sheet, tell him you already have all that figured out and have your own financing. Don't waste the paper. Test drive the car you can afford, or want. Do not let him show you a higher model just because you are curious. He will try to convince you he can make it work, or he will wow you with that fully loaded car with the 6 and when he finds out you can't afford it, he will tell you that the lesser equipped model is "Just as good, but it ONLY doesn't have xyz options you don't really need anyway." YOU need to drive the sale and stay in control. If you don't know the facts when you walk in you will get taken advantage of. Don't ask him the price. Tell him what you are willing to pay, and walk away if he says "I can't do that, let me talk to my manager, ill be right back. And if you are making a trade never give them your keys to have them check out your car and make you an offer. They will drive your car around back, hook it up to a computer for 5 minutes and know what they will pay for it, and leave it there forever until they can try to wear you down. It's another trick of the trade. When you get to the finance Dept, remember, the Finance manager makes commission on post sales add-ons. Tinted windows are NOT cheaper at the dealer. Same for Ceramic coatings, Clear Bra etc. Prices on the extended warranty and service packages are negotiable. Only accept their financing if the APR/Payments is better than the deal you already have with your bank. Do not let them run your credit until you are ready to sign. Know what your credit score is before you go. Every time they run credit on you knocks at least 3 points. Keep in mind BMW credit is good if you have Excellent credit. If you have average, or good, you will not get a prime rate. If you know what it is, you can tell them, they can get deals based on that contingent on your credit being what you say it is. Otherwise they will run several banks to see which one will fund you. And they run the ones they have Kickback deals with first. Then once you are ready to close, let them run your credit, or use your pre-approval check. |
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08-22-2024, 04:52 PM | #171 |
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08-23-2024, 03:20 AM | #172 | |
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08-23-2024, 03:23 AM | #173 |
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You are like 5 years late.
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08-23-2024, 08:17 AM | #174 |
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08-23-2024, 09:30 AM | #175 | |
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I find arguing with "Dave Ramsey" types interesting. It all goes down to most people don't have enough discipline to use financial tools to their benefit, for people like them that kind of "debt bad!" thinking works because without it they would be up to their eyeballs in debt. Using debt to free up capital to invest only works for people who will use the capital to invest, not spend. Most people can't. When they argue that debt is bad to people like us they can't get anywhere because the benefits of using debt wisely are undeniable. The key is wisely and they can't envision that any debt is wise. I've considered it for a lot longer than 5 years. How much can you realistically charge? $500? Its just not worth my time. I do it for friends and family for free. LOL, you don't have anything to teach us thanks. Last edited by SW17LS; 08-23-2024 at 09:36 AM.. |
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08-24-2024, 10:03 PM | #176 |
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I’ve been in finance my whole life and understand the leasing game…and leasing is often a far less desirable choice. Without a doubt thise who lease because they can’t otherwise afford a new vehicle are foolish.
That said there are many good reasons to lease. I leased my IX because the lease was heavily incentivized by BMW and the lease is the only way to take advantage of a large tax credit (due to a loophole in the IRA). The MF was far lower than what I earn on my investments and the lease has the additional benefit of eliminating unknown depreciation. I already suspect the residual value on my lease was overestimated which means my depreciation exposure is lower than if I had purchased outright. Another benefit, anytime you own an expensive vehicle there is huge diminished value risk if your vehicle is wrecked (not the case with a lease provided it’s repaired properly). Additionally for me, the EV experience is a bit of an unknown and I wanted the ability to walk away without obligation. I have the money to buy outright but the lease was a far better option for me financially and pragmatically. |
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