[stein_325i]

Found this to be a very interesting and in-depth article/survey.

Full article below, along with some highlights/quotes.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...evolution.html

"We asked 5,000 Model 3 owners about their previous cars and whether they'll ever go back to them. Some of the most common trade-ins, somewhat surprisingly, were economy cars: Honda's Accord and Civic, the Toyota Camry, and the Mazda 3. But as a percentage of a brand's total sales, no one has been hurt more by Tesla's success than BMW, the responses show."

"The following chart orders the survey's trade-in results in a different way: as a proportion of a brand's U.S. sales. It shows BMW to be the automaker with the most to lose—almost five times more vulnerable than Mercedes-Benz. One explanation is that the two brands, while both competing in the same price segments, target different definitions of "luxury." Mercedes is built for comfort and class, while BMW is defined by its driving performance. Comfort and class are hard to measure; for performance, you take the car to the track."

[mkoesel]

This jibes with past claims made by Tesla, and reinforces what we've seen anecdotally: Tesla is conquest-ing the bejeezus out of BMW. The i4 can't come soon enough. Sadly, given its RWD-only drive setup and likely unimpressive range, the iX3 probably won't do much to stop the coming offensive from the Model Y. If so, that could really start to hurt BMW's performance in North American where they are currently riding out the plunge in their passenger car sales on the backs of the X3 and X5.

[XMetal]

This definitely concurs with what I've been observing - Model 3 drivers are the new Prius drivers...left lane hoggers driving below the speed limit getting into everbody's way

The BMW one is a head scratcher. I haven't been able to talk to a single Model 3 owner that's actually a car person. The only car that they are really into is the Model 3 and are ignorant to everything else. Perhaps this is a good thing so BMW can stop chasing after the general public and get back into designing cars for the enthusiasts!

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by XMetal

I haven't been able to talk to a single Model 3 owner that's actually a car person.

I agree with this statement but Ihave met a few Tesla owners who are interested in cars, but but not true stick shift enthusiasts. There are many buyers for BMW that are badge whores and they're not enthusiasts. I would guess that those are the people who have moved to Tesla.

[tracer bullet]

I guess I'm not surprised. I sometimes consider replacing my 135i, but there's no Tesla to replace it. A few years ago I got an X3, and if I had to replace it, same thing.

If I owned a 3-series though, damned right I'd look at a Tesla, would be foolish not to. Same for owning an Infiniti, Audi, Acura, etc. sedan.

[phantomF80]

Originally Posted by thebmw

I agree with this statement but Ihave met a few Tesla owners who are interested in cars, but but not true stick shift enthusiasts. There are many buyers for BMW that are badge whores and they're not enthusiasts. I would guess that those are the people who have moved to Tesla.

I would call myself a car enthusiast, having owned and enjoyed MKVII GTI (manual), E46 ZHP (manual), 987.1 Cayman S (manual), and F80 (DCT). I still like those cars, but having owned a Model 3 for 8 months now, I have not found a reason to get back to those fun ICE cars. And compared to the new BMW offerings, I just don't see anything better. Not saying the Model 3 is the best thing out there, as it has many drawbacks, but it is a very good street car.

[secretsquirrel]

Many of the Model 3 owners I've seen appear to be car guys. The car is highly owned by car guys who are also tech guys.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by secretsquirrel

Many of the Model 3 owners I've seen appear to be car guys. The car is highly owned by car guys who are also tech guys.

Maybe it just depends where you live. In the Northwest they are exclusively techies.

I can't speak to the Model 3 but when I worked at Tesla, the Model S was indeed a nerd mobile.

[..Rush..]

Agreed with some of the members above.
Where I live, alot of Tesla Model 3 people are what I call, "the App Guys"

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Maybe it just depends where you live. In the Northwest they are exclusively techies.

I can't speak to the Model 3 but when I worked at Tesla, the Model S was indeed a nerd mobile.

There's no need to limit your perception by your geographical location. We have the internet at our disposal, and if you read discussions on this forum and forums like it you will see immediately that plenty of automotive enthusiasts drive Tesla vehicles.

Originally Posted by thebmw

There are many buyers for BMW that are... not enthusiasts.

Also very true, yes. There is a tendency among some enthusiasts to want to believe that BMW is a brand for them alone and that its financial success is owed primarily to those who love cars and who love to drive. This may have been true in decades past (or it may not have - I don't have data), but it is not necessarily the case today.

Originally Posted by XMetal

Perhaps this is a good thing so BMW can stop chasing after the general public and get back into designing cars for the enthusiasts!

BMW is under no illusion that this is a good thing. A corporate entity does not generally want to lose customers because it usually means losing money. BMW is, in fact, preparing a whole host of new EV products over the next few years precisely because they are keenly aware that if they do not, they will eventually become uncompetitive and could face elimination.

[clee1982]

if I can charge at my public garage I would definitely considering getting Model 3 P

in terms driving probably continue to reflect "to most people acceleration defines sportiness, hence we're not going to get more car with feel for the general public..."

[phantomF80]

Originally Posted by clee1982

if I can charge at my public garage I would definitely considering getting Model 3 P

in terms driving probably continue to reflect "to most people acceleration defines sportiness, hence we're not going to get more car with feel for the general public..."

I would say my Model 3 (non-performance) has better steering feel and driving dynamic than any F30 loaners I have driven, but definitely not as good as my F80. The low CG helps, and its suspension is tuned fairly well for spirited driving (still a bit too much body movement when pushed hard).

[XMetal]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

BMW is under no illusion that this is a good thing. A corporate entity does not generally want to lose customers because it usually means losing money. BMW is, in fact, preparing a whole host of new EV products over the next few years precisely because they are keenly aware that if they do not, they will eventually become uncompetitive and could face elimination.

I meant it may be a good thing for us enthusiasts as this could be a wake up call for BMW. There's nothing in the current BMW line up that appeals to me. Other than the M2, everything else in the line up is fat and bloated. To make things worst, BMW has been hit with the ugly stick as of late.

I am not an EV hater...I just don't like Tesla and their way of doing business. Just like Apple, it's a closed system - it's probably OK for a thousand dollar throwaway phone, but not OK for a multi-thousand dollar car. You have NO options to get it service outside of Tesla. If you can't modify it, what's the fun in owning it as an enthusiast car? Even for a daily driver, if I can't tinker with it, I have not much interest in owning one.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

There's no need to limit your perception by your geographical location. We have the internet at our disposal, and if you read discussions on this forum and forums like it you will see immediately that plenty of automotive enthusiasts drive Tesla vehicles.

You're judging an entire automotive community based off the internet. If that were accurate than most BMW owners would be young enthusiasts who adore stiff hydraulic steering. The reality is the polar opposite.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

You're judging an entire automotive community based off the internet.

Absolutely not, friend. The question in play is whether *any* Tesla owners are enthusiasts. My post addresses that question - the answer is objectively "yes".

How many Tesla enthusiasts are there? Hard to say, but it is definitely not zero. I'm sure it is a small percentage of the total number of owners, just like only a small portion of the German luxury car buying population are auto enthusiasts.

[Darth One]

It makes total sense. Model 3’s segment is the ~$50k, “near luxury” segment. If they weren’t stealing BMW 3-Series customers, they wouldn’t be selling too many cars

[F32Fleet]

Not surprised. BMW and Tesla fight for the same tech savvy serial leasee who lives in urban areas, drives 10k miles yr, and would rather fly than drive when traveling.

It's why I rarely if ever see any BMW's on the interstate whenever I road trip out of Atlanta. Strangely enough for me I've always enjoyed speeding along at 80+ mph for hours on end in my BMW. I really do look forward to it.

[New2Roundel]

I'm sure BMW is aware of this fact, and IMO, is part of the reason why BMW spends less time developing universally engaging cars to drive and more time chasing tech and strict numbers. I've heard many positive descriptors regarding tesla products, but "driver's car", "engaging", or "sense of theater" are not things I have heard. Sadly, they're things I prefer in my cars. I think for Joe/Jane UpperMiddleClass with ~$60k to spend on a car or SUV, any type of driving engagement just doesn't enter into the purchase decision. Tech and the feeling of acceleration can be pretty compelling for most when done well in combination.

BMW is in a tough spot IMO.

[kimarius]

Well, this survey clearly proofs, that BMW still owns, car industry

[BSquared+]

Guess it's popularity is a local/regional thing. I've never even seen one of those "tesla" thingy's in my area.

[clee1982]

Originally Posted by BSquared+

Guess it's popularity is a local/regional thing. I've never even seen one of those "tesla" thingy's in my area.

Probably more popular in Cali and suburb Northeast, NJ/CT is full of them, less so in NYC given the charger infrastructure (but I still see a lot more than I thought there would be), once you get to say westchester/Long Island then you see a lot too

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by BSquared+

Guess it's popularity is a local/regional thing. I've never even seen one of those "tesla" thingy's in my area.

They're all over the place in metro Atlanta. In fact I believe the State of GA is still ranked 2nd nationally behind California in terms of EV registrations.