[Mr Tonka]

On this date 100 years ago, Woodrow Wilson signed the Revenue Act of 1913 which re-imposed an income tax following the [controversial] passage of the 16th Amendment.

It was passed under the promise that it would be a relatively low tax on only the wealthiest Americans...





"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." — Frédéric Bastiat

[Whostheboss]

interesting

[MisterSkiMask]

staggering

[Whostheboss]

Be happy you live in a country where you pay Tax.

[MisterSkiMask]

Add in state income tax (if you have it), sales tax, property tax, tax on fuel...

[F1Venom]

If you make over $250k, you pay 40% federal income tax and in my state another 12%. So over 52% goes to the govt..... That's disgusting. Govt functioned perfectly well when they were dependent on the states to give them a portion of their revenue to the fed govt. now it's the other way around and look how deep in debt we are.
Apparently the fed. govt. collected a record amount of taxes this past year too yet our debt's only risen.

[mact3333]

Can you show me any documents or laws that say we must pay tax on wages earned from labor?. The original law was also supposed to be a capitals gains tax and nowhere does it say the govt. can tax wages earned.

Talk about crime of the century.

Geez, I wonder why Woodrow Wilson is on the face on the largest denomination of money every printed(100K bill)!. Wilson the biggest sham of all time. Youtube "The Creature From Jekyl Island). He helped pass the Federal Reserve Act and Income Tax laws. Federal Reserve Act is genius because it bypasses the wants of the many with trickery. Many people dont mind supporting waste and wars because they dont feel it directly with respect to their their financial well being at that moment in time, but it does....when govt prints bonds to fund programs the Federal Reserve buys govt binds with money printed out of thin air creating inflation...so everytime the govt spends OUR money, we are all paying directly as everything we need to live on is more expensive(homes, gas, food , etc).

So we get taxed by the fed govt and states and cities on wages earned...we pay tax for items we buy...we pay taxes in licenses we must have to operate business...we pay property tax on a home we might already own, hence you truly never own your home even without a mortgage.

Funny world we live in.

But they stupify you with just enough BMW's and football games to keep you docile and enslaved...Govt is smart, they dont want to kill you off cause they need you to do their scut work, but they dont want you informed either, as this might bring on a revolution.

[RandomHero]

Hmm…..yea we should definitely go back to the 1910s. Things were much better back then.

-We didn’t have a central bank until 1913- that means if your bank went bankrupt, you were shit out of luck. There was no FDIC insurance.
-Life expectancy was less than 50 years old. That means there were fewer people to take care of because the life expectancy was 30 years shorter than it is now.
-Women couldn’t even vote at that point
-We were a year away from a World War
-Less than a decade before, the market dropped 50% in one year.
-Slavery had been abolished less than 50 years prior

I can keep going, but there’s a reason why the tax rates were so low back then.

[badazzm]

Nice info man!

[yarviinn]

Originally Posted by F1Venom

If you make over $250k, you pay 40% federal income tax and in my state another 12%. So over 52% goes to the govt..... That's disgusting. Govt functioned perfectly well when they were dependent on the states to give them a portion of their revenue to the fed govt. now it's the other way around and look how deep in debt we are.
Apparently the fed. govt. collected a record amount of taxes this past year too yet our debt's only risen.

'Murrica

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by RandomHero

Hmm…..yea we should definitely go back to the 1910s. Things were much better back then.

-We didn’t have a central bank until 1913- that means if your bank went bankrupt, you were shit out of luck. There was no FDIC insurance.
-Life expectancy was less than 50 years old. That means there were fewer people to take care of because the life expectancy was 30 years shorter than it is now.
-Women couldn’t even vote at that point
-We were a year away from a World War
-Less than a decade before, the market dropped 50% in one year.
-Slavery had been abolished less than 50 years prior

I can keep going, but there’s a reason why the tax rates were so low back then.

And the government didn't pay $400 for toilet seats and $100 for a hammer...

[F1Venom]

Originally Posted by mact3333

Can you show me any documents or laws that say we must pay tax on wages earned from labor?. The original law was also supposed to be a capitals gains tax and nowhere does it say the govt. can tax wages earned.

Talk about crime of the century.

Geez, I wonder why Woodrow Wilson is on the face on the largest denomination of money every printed(100K bill)!. Wilson the biggest sham of all time. Youtube "The Creature From Jekyl Island). He helped pass the Federal Reserve Act and Income Tax laws. Federal Reserve Act is genius because it bypasses the wants of the many with trickery. Many people dont mind supporting waste and wars because they dont feel it directly with respect to their their financial well being at that moment in time, but it does....when govt prints bonds to fund programs the Federal Reserve buys govt binds with money printed out of thin air creating inflation...so everytime the govt spends OUR money, we are all paying directly as everything we need to live on is more expensive(homes, gas, food , etc).

So we get taxed by the fed govt and states and cities on wages earned...we pay tax for items we buy...we pay taxes in licenses we must have to operate business...we pay property tax on a home we might already own, hence you truly never own your home even without a mortgage.

Funny world we live in.

But they stupify you with just enough BMW's and football games to keep you docile and enslaved...Govt is smart, they dont want to kill you off cause they need you to do their scut work, but they dont want you informed either, as this might bring on a revolution.

100% agree. And America's sports culture is a huge reason why everyone's so dumbed down and ignorant of what's going on.

[Chihuahua]

Woodrow Wilson is arguably the worst president this country has ever had.

[Chihuahua]

Woodrow Wilson is arguably the worst president this country has ever had.

Originally Posted by RandomHero

Hmm…..yea we should definitely go back to the 1910s. Things were much better back then.

+1

[stimpy]

Originally Posted by RandomHero

Hmm…..yea we should definitely go back to the 1910s. Things were much better back then.

-We didn’t have a central bank until 1913- that means if your bank went bankrupt, you were shit out of luck. There was no FDIC insurance.
-Life expectancy was less than 50 years old. That means there were fewer people to take care of because the life expectancy was 30 years shorter than it is now.
-Women couldn’t even vote at that point
-We were a year away from a World War
-Less than a decade before, the market dropped 50% in one year.
-Slavery had been abolished less than 50 years prior

I can keep going, but there’s a reason why the tax rates were so low back then.

SOLD! jk

Originally Posted by kscarrol

And the government didn't pay $400 for toilet seats and $100 for a hammer...

Nice ID4 reference!

Originally Posted by F1Venom

100% agree. And America's sports culture is a huge reason why everyone's so dumbed down and ignorant of what's going on.

lol wut? You're not serious are you?

[Mr Tonka]

I know there is a lot of missing data to properly compare the tax revenue per 1040 filed from then and now, but if you do you'll find that in 1913 those figures (in today's money) come out to about $46k per 1040 filed. Today, the $2.7 trilling only come out to only $19k per 1040 filed.

That data alone is less interesting when you don't also see the difference in the tax code size. The smaller tax code likely didn't allow for so many loop holes and places to shelter money from tax. With such a small percentage the people likely didn't run and try and hide their money. As someone said above, in the right state, you're giving up half your income to income taxes alone. Not to mention property taxes, sales tax, payroll tax, etc...

Again, in today's money someone making $11,600,000 was only paying $800k in taxes. Now you only have to make $1.6 million to pay that much in taxes.

It really is somewhat mind boggling when you start playing with some of the numbers. For instance, if nothing changed and the avererage amount per 1040 stayed constant from 1913, instead of $2,700,000,000,000 in revenue they would have about $6,500,000,000,000. Nearly 3 times as much.

I realize it's incredibly complex with those 73,000 pages of tax code we deal with now, but what's really the cause of such a low average dollar amount per 1040 when the lowest tax bracket is 3% higher than the highest tax bracket from 1913?

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by stimpy

S
Nice ID4 reference!

Thanks, but unfortunately that quote is based on the reality of government procurement programs.

[BayMoWe335]

Originally Posted by mact3333

Can you show me any documents or laws that say we must pay tax on wages earned from labor?. The original law was also supposed to be a capitals gains tax and nowhere does it say the govt. can tax wages earned.

Talk about crime of the century.

Geez, I wonder why Woodrow Wilson is on the face on the largest denomination of money every printed(100K bill)!. Wilson the biggest sham of all time. Youtube "The Creature From Jekyl Island). He helped pass the Federal Reserve Act and Income Tax laws. Federal Reserve Act is genius because it bypasses the wants of the many with trickery. Many people dont mind supporting waste and wars because they dont feel it directly with respect to their their financial well being at that moment in time, but it does....when govt prints bonds to fund programs the Federal Reserve buys govt binds with money printed out of thin air creating inflation...so everytime the govt spends OUR money, we are all paying directly as everything we need to live on is more expensive(homes, gas, food , etc).

So we get taxed by the fed govt and states and cities on wages earned...we pay tax for items we buy...we pay taxes in licenses we must have to operate business...we pay property tax on a home we might already own, hence you truly never own your home even without a mortgage.

Funny world we live in.

But they stupify you with just enough BMW's and football games to keep you docile and enslaved...Govt is smart, they dont want to kill you off cause they need you to do their scut work, but they dont want you informed either, as this might bring on a revolution.

You could not be more right. Society is set up in such a perfect manner as to make everyone (or most) just happy enough with their shitty life that they'll keep quiet.

Everyone is paid JUST enough to keep coming back to work but never enough to truly get ahead. We are fooled into thinking the situation is ideal or at minimum, good enough to continue.

Honestly, it depresses me more than anything because I'm part of the machine too.

[bbbbmw]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

I know there is a lot of missing data to properly compare the tax revenue per 1040 filed from then and now, but if you do you'll find that in 1913 those figures (in today's money) come out to about $46k per 1040 filed. Today, the $2.7 trilling only come out to only $19k per 1040 filed.

That data alone is less interesting when you don't also see the difference in the tax code size. The smaller tax code likely didn't allow for so many loop holes and places to shelter money from tax. With such a small percentage the people likely didn't run and try and hide their money. As someone said above, in the right state, you're giving up half your income to income taxes alone. Not to mention property taxes, sales tax, payroll tax, etc...

Again, in today's money someone making $11,600,000 was only paying $800k in taxes. Now you only have to make $1.6 million to pay that much in taxes.

It really is somewhat mind boggling when you start playing with some of the numbers. For instance, if nothing changed and the avererage amount per 1040 stayed constant from 1913, instead of $2,700,000,000,000 in revenue they would have about $6,500,000,000,000. Nearly 3 times as much.

I realize it's incredibly complex with those 73,000 pages of tax code we deal with now, but what's really the cause of such a low average dollar amount per 1040 when the lowest tax bracket is 3% higher than the highest tax bracket from 1913?

In 1913, the population of the US was just under 100 million, and there were 358,000 returns filed. The population now is just over 300 million, yet there were 140 million returns filed. And we can probably assume that doesn't include the 12-20 million illegals in the country. Also, the standard deduction for a family in 1913 was $93,000, as opposed to $12,200 today. So the issue would seem to be with the numerator, not the denominator.

[mact3333]

LOL...here is proof your FDIC argument doesnt work...many banks did go under in 2008-9 but did FDIC actually pay out any money to depositors?...didnt think so...this is capitalism, you fail you go under and someone else takes over....this is why owning ,metals is important...the whole fiat system is a facade...without buyin there is nothing...dollar bills are a fancy IOU that can never be paid back by its definition due to something called interest....there isnt enough money to pay back all our debt due to interest by definition.

Wake up bro...yeah we all play the game cause we have to survive but its better to truly understand their game.

What does women voting have to do with what were talking about?...by your argument if we raise the income tax rate to 80-90% like it was 30-40 years ago woman would get two votes?

And who caused the panic in early 1900's...JP Morgan!...well orchestrated and set up to create the Fed Reserve Act.

And slavery?..wow...great, instead of human slavery we now have economic slavery...thats right you too are a slave now but your kinda in the dark about it huh?

Originally Posted by RandomHero

Hmm…..yea we should definitely go back to the 1910s. Things were much better back then.

-We didn’t have a central bank until 1913- that means if your bank went bankrupt, you were shit out of luck. There was no FDIC insurance.
-Life expectancy was less than 50 years old. That means there were fewer people to take care of because the life expectancy was 30 years shorter than it is now.
-Women couldn’t even vote at that point
-We were a year away from a World War
-Less than a decade before, the market dropped 50% in one year.
-Slavery had been abolished less than 50 years prior

I can keep going, but there’s a reason why the tax rates were so low back then.

[mact3333]

and you think the govt wont push the top income tax rate to absurd levels?...highest tax rate was almost 90% just 30-40 years ago.

[carve]

Originally Posted by RandomHero

Hmm…..yea we should definitely go back to the 1910s. Things were much better back then.

Good-We didn’t have a central bank until 1913- that means if your bank went bankrupt, you were shit out of luck. There was no FDIC insurance.
Irrelevant to taxes-Life expectancy was less than 50 years old. That means there were fewer people to take care of because the life expectancy was 30 years shorter than it is now.
Irrelevant to taxes-Women couldn’t even vote at that point
Irrelevant to taxes-We were a year away from a World War
And it corrected quickly without government meddling-Less than a decade before, the market dropped 50% in one year.
Yeah...that's how time works-Slavery had been abolished less than 50 years prior

I can keep going, but there’s a reason why the tax rates were so low back then.

Nobody is saying everything was better in 1910; only that the tax system was better and the government observed it's constitutionally limited powers