[moproblems]

Originally Posted by edwinm3

is this a must do replacement on the new G8X?

No not really.

[beden1]

Originally Posted by Sean@PSI

Attached to this URL https://csfrace.com/new-csf-high-per...eat-exchanger/ there is a great explanation of exactly how this setup upgrades the S58 Cooling process!

I did not "exactly" get any measured test results from reading this marketing piece.

[SexyRoger]

Originally Posted by Sean@PSI

CSF Cooling has officially released their High-Performance G8X M3/M4 Heat Exchanger! The S58 platform loves to run hot under extensive driving and this is the perfect fix. CSF has been testing this system for the past 9 months and we personally have had this unit on our G80 for the past 5000 miles. We have taken it through the mountains of Georgia, the heat of Florida and even the deserts of California. This unit has stood up to everything we have thrown at it even through some of the harshest of conditions. This heat exchanger fits both the 6-speed Manual and the 8-speed automatic and features two protectant shields.

The CSF Heat Exchanger features a 2-Row (vs OEM single row) Core that is 42mm thick with CSF’s Exclusive B-Tube Technology. Increasing the size of the core and end tanks adds to the overall volume of the system which helps absorb more heat. The more efficient core not only helps dissipate more heat from the system, but also provides better airflow into the radiator that sits behind the heat exchanger. For vehicles equipped with the ZF8 Automatic Transmission, the heat exchanger core specifications were design concurrently with CSF’s new Race-Spec Dual Core Transmission Oil Cooler.

For more information check out CSF's analysis! https://csfrace.com/new-csf-high-per...eat-exchanger/

• Significantly Reduces Intake Air Temperatures (IATs) for Maximum Performance (with Faster Heat Soak Recovery)
• Improves Air Flow to the Rest of the Cooling System for Lower Engine Coolant and Engine Oil Temperatures
• 2-Row, 42mm Ultra-High-Performance Core
• 6.5mm Tall Multi-Louvered Fin with CSF’s Exclusive B-Tube Technology
• CNC Machined Mounting Brackets and OEM Style “Quick Connect” Inlet/Outlet
• 100% All Aluminum TIG-Welded Construction
• Includes Black Rock Guards (upper and lower) & Transmission Cooler Mounting Kit
• Upper and Lower Rock Guards for Manual Transmission
• Upper Rock Guard and Transmission Cooler Mounting Kit for ZF8 Auto
• True Plug-and-Play “Drop-in Fit” Installation Requires Absolutely No Modifications
• 2-Year Limited Warranty
• 1-Hour “Mirror Finish” Hand Polish
• Tested and Proven by CSF’s Global Network of R&D Partners, Including Leading Time Attack Teams, Tuners, and Turbo Kit Manufacturers.
  
  Applications:
  
• 2021+ BMW G80 M3 (incl. Competition) – 6MT & ZF8 Auto
• 2021+ BMW G82/G83 M4 (incl. Competition) – 6MT & ZF8 Auto

BUY NOW - For $699.00 With FREE SHIPPING https://precision-sport.com/products...39785519448127

Not really sure how this adds anything to a car that was developed on the Nurburgring at high speeds, tested in death valley. I suppose if you're stuck in gridlock traffic and you had many stones hit your old radiator, this is a nice option. Replacing a new one does not make much sense.

What the car needs is a solution to the front grill. It is still hard to look at even with thousands spent on mods.

[M3Pilot09]

Show me track data to verify your claims. I highly doubt some small shop has more money and bodies to throw at R&D than BMW M. When there is a problem engine related, I am sure BMW will point the finger at this being the culprit. Good luck, I would never buy this to replace OEM.

[Sean@PSI]

Hey everyone, wanted to chime in with some of the information I know firsthand about the product. I want everyone to have the right and full information to make their decisions for their M3/M4. These cars are now starting to be heavily modified and this is one of the supporting mods we would recommend with upgrading the turbos, tuning the ECU and so on.

CSF based this design off the same specs as their high performance heat exchanger for the Gen-2 B58 (Supra / 40i, Z4, etc).
- Follow this link to see all the testing and data collection that CSF put into this exchanger w/ the data from several different companies all over the world. - https://csfrace.com/a90-91-toyota-su...eat-exchanger/
- CSF released this back in June of 2020


Here is some info directly from CSF as well that I wanted to add:
-The OEM S58 heat exchanger is almost identical to the B58 one - it’s so close, we actually were able to fit a B58 one into the car during our initial R&D when we took everything apart to analyze and compare the systems.

- The OEM core specifications on the B58 heat exchanger is exactly the same as the specs on the S58, the measurements are just slightly different and the tanks are slightly different, but besides this, it’s exactly the same thing - including being made by the same OEM manufacturer.

- We have sold 500+ heat exchangers in ~2 years for the Gen-2 B58, and ~the same amount for the Gen-1 car. We have never received one complaint that it didn’t perform as intended.

- Our B58 heat exchanger is installed on 10+ cars making over 900+hp, and a few making over 1000hp for Supras.
3) Therefore, because of our high-level of experience, we decided that since our B58 heat exchanger works very well, we’ll go right into production after refining the design and adding all the features we wanted to add throughout the R&D process (working with you on the rock guards, brackets for auto, working with a larger trans cooler, etc).

4) We’ve given 8 kits out to Beta testers:
- this includes time attack cars (Art of Attack M4, Studio RSR, and Velocity Performance out of Canada)
- A couple of guys who did roll racing at MPACT back in early August also had installed the part on the car
- We also have it on several street cars w/ bolt-ons who have done extensive road testing for us (PSI and IND)

4B) Velocity Performance installed both the heat exchanger and a pre-production Zf8 trans cooler upgrade on their G82 and was able to shave 2 seconds off their time (I’ve attached a screen shot of our conversation).
"Thank you CSF and their team for always coming out with the best cooling products in the market. Not only do we mainly offer CSF to our customers at Velocity Performance also we tested the new heat-exchanger and also the Transmission cooler from CSF on our G82 AWD M4 Time Attack Car, we immediately shaved 2 seconds effortlessly on just a practice set of tires!! Can’t wait for the drop on all the other parts.”

4C) Sumith Bepari (@g80_soom) - bought the heat exchanger as a beta tester before MPACT.
- see his testimonial which I’ve attached a screenshot.
Last year at MPACT (which was just as hot, if not hotter than this year), stock tune (w/ bolt-ons) running IAT”s of 130 degrees
- this year, his car is now tuned with the unlock and ECUTEK, making 700+ hp, and he’s running under 125 degrees the whole day, and was even doing back to back runs as he advanced through the head to head runs throughout the day.

We will be getting back to back (A/B) testing done on this part, along with our manifold asap - we wanted to get the product out to market after we felt confident that it works based on the beta tester info we got + previous experience on a very similar engine and heat exchanger. We will continue to do more testing and publish more information once it becomes available as more people get these on their car, share the feedback, etc.

********

I hope this explains/helps explain the development process of this part. Please PM or post with questions!

[tomlong]

The front mount heat exchanger plus air-to-water charge cooler both should be upgraded in order to see the benefits from cooling mods. This is from the context of what I learned from the F8x platform.

So unless BMW drastically improved the cooling for the S58 over the S55 then I'd say you'll want to upgrade both components. Where's the data? Here you go:

Data log results: EOS Charger Cooler + Awe ColdFront Heat Exchanger https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1908740

I've also added methanol injection to the above mentioned cooling mods and now see IATs 10-15F below ambient when I dropped the hammer.

In summary, it is the combination of these 3 upgrades (I've found for the S55B30) to be highly effective for cooling.

And lastly, if you run a cooler burning fuel such as E85 … I've found that my EGTs have been as low as 350-400F during WOT.

Hope this helps

[forcefed]

Originally Posted by tomlong

In summary, it is the combination of these 3 upgrades (I've found for the S55B30) to be highly effective for cooling.

How does that effective cooling translate into hp? The charge cooler is 6k for the s58, the hp per $ ratio is beyond poor. 20f cooler air doesn't translate into 50hp gains, maybe 10 tops. Why are there no dyno graphs released with these cooling mods?

[tomlong]

Originally Posted by forcefed

How does that effective cooling translate into hp? The charge cooler is 6k for the s58, the hp per $ ratio is beyond poor. 20f cooler air doesn't translate into 50hp gains, maybe 10 tops. Why are there no dyno graphs released with these cooling mods?

It would be too simple to think of cooling in terms of direct translation into horsepower. To make more horsepower in a force induction engine, the tuner would increase timing advance. But as you increase timing advance, you want to do so safely in order to avoid things such as detonation and knock, so cooling is one of the many factors that goes into creating acceptable operating conditions for more timing advance to occur safely.

[Slo_F80_Mike]

I wouldn't buy anything from CSF without hard data to back up their claims. Been proven they are selling nonsense that actually reduces performance over stock. Look for other brands, do your research. Don't fall for marketing.

[SexyRoger]

Originally Posted by Sean@PSI

Hey everyone, wanted to chime in with some of the information I know firsthand about the product. I want everyone to have the right and full information to make their decisions for their M3/M4. These cars are now starting to be heavily modified and this is one of the supporting mods we would recommend with upgrading the turbos, tuning the ECU and so on.

CSF based this design off the same specs as their high performance heat exchanger for the Gen-2 B58 (Supra / 40i, Z4, etc).
- Follow this link to see all the testing and data collection that CSF put into this exchanger w/ the data from several different companies all over the world. - https://csfrace.com/a90-91-toyota-su...eat-exchanger/
- CSF released this back in June of 2020


Here is some info directly from CSF as well that I wanted to add:
-The OEM S58 heat exchanger is almost identical to the B58 one - it’s so close, we actually were able to fit a B58 one into the car during our initial R&D when we took everything apart to analyze and compare the systems.

- The OEM core specifications on the B58 heat exchanger is exactly the same as the specs on the S58, the measurements are just slightly different and the tanks are slightly different, but besides this, it’s exactly the same thing - including being made by the same OEM manufacturer.

- We have sold 500+ heat exchangers in ~2 years for the Gen-2 B58, and ~the same amount for the Gen-1 car. We have never received one complaint that it didn’t perform as intended.

- Our B58 heat exchanger is installed on 10+ cars making over 900+hp, and a few making over 1000hp for Supras.
3) Therefore, because of our high-level of experience, we decided that since our B58 heat exchanger works very well, we’ll go right into production after refining the design and adding all the features we wanted to add throughout the R&D process (working with you on the rock guards, brackets for auto, working with a larger trans cooler, etc).

4) We’ve given 8 kits out to Beta testers:
- this includes time attack cars (Art of Attack M4, Studio RSR, and Velocity Performance out of Canada)
- A couple of guys who did roll racing at MPACT back in early August also had installed the part on the car
- We also have it on several street cars w/ bolt-ons who have done extensive road testing for us (PSI and IND)

4B) Velocity Performance installed both the heat exchanger and a pre-production Zf8 trans cooler upgrade on their G82 and was able to shave 2 seconds off their time (I’ve attached a screen shot of our conversation).
"Thank you CSF and their team for always coming out with the best cooling products in the market. Not only do we mainly offer CSF to our customers at Velocity Performance also we tested the new heat-exchanger and also the Transmission cooler from CSF on our G82 AWD M4 Time Attack Car, we immediately shaved 2 seconds effortlessly on just a practice set of tires!! Can’t wait for the drop on all the other parts.”

4C) Sumith Bepari (@g80_soom) - bought the heat exchanger as a beta tester before MPACT.
- see his testimonial which I’ve attached a screenshot.
Last year at MPACT (which was just as hot, if not hotter than this year), stock tune (w/ bolt-ons) running IAT”s of 130 degrees
- this year, his car is now tuned with the unlock and ECUTEK, making 700+ hp, and he’s running under 125 degrees the whole day, and was even doing back to back runs as he advanced through the head to head runs throughout the day.

We will be getting back to back (A/B) testing done on this part, along with our manifold asap - we wanted to get the product out to market after we felt confident that it works based on the beta tester info we got + previous experience on a very similar engine and heat exchanger. We will continue to do more testing and publish more information once it becomes available as more people get these on their car, share the feedback, etc.

********

I hope this explains/helps explain the development process of this part. Please PM or post with questions!

Thanks - HP, WHP etc. dyno numbers do not always translate into road use, race use. What is the difference between your core vs stock at 500 laps of the Nurburgring? I don't see the ring taxis changing radiators... just saying.

[induc916]

Originally Posted by tomlong

The front mount heat exchanger plus air-to-water charge cooler both should be upgraded in order to see the benefits from cooling mods. This is from the context of what I learned from the F8x platform.

So unless BMW drastically improved the cooling for the S58 over the S55 then I'd say you'll want to upgrade both components. Where's the data? Here you go:

Data log results: EOS Charger Cooler + Awe ColdFront Heat Exchanger https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1908740

I've also added methanol injection to the above mentioned cooling mods and now see IATs 10-15F below ambient when I dropped the hammer.

In summary, it is the combination of these 3 upgrades (I've found for the S55B30) to be highly effective for cooling.

And lastly, if you run a cooler burning fuel such as E85 … I've found that my EGTs have been as low as 350-400F during WOT.

Hope this helps

The s58 vs s55 cooling is night and day. RK Autowerks already showed it with data. https://www.rkautowerks.com/index.ph...tion-manifold/ Stop reaching and using other models as your “data.”
RK Autowerks provided data and showed how good an oem manifold is, but was still able to quantify how much better the RK manifold is. Csf is the “leader in cooling” but can’t produce a lick of data? I suppose price is technically data. Or maybe you guys need to wake up and realize csf is the leader in marketing and sales, not cooling.”

[CSF Cooling]

Originally Posted by SexyRoger

Thanks - HP, WHP etc. dyno numbers do not always translate into road use, race use. What is the difference between your core vs stock at 500 laps of the Nurburgring? I don't see the ring taxis changing radiators... just saying.

This is actually not true - we've worked with several companies who are "Ring Taxis" or rental companies to improve the cooling for many of the vehicles that run the Ring. (several BMWs, Civic F8 Type-R, Focus RS + Mclaren 720S + others)

We've done work for several years with RSRNurburg

- here is a video of an N55 M2 which we did with them - we outfitted their entire fleet of this application

Many Ring Taxis and rental companies have a big problem during the hot summer months with trying to keep their vehicles on track throughout the day as a lot of these cars do overheat and have overheating problems when being pushed hard for long distances.

[induc916]

Originally Posted by CSF Cooling

This is actually not true - we've worked with several companies who are "Ring Taxis" or rental companies to improve the cooling for many of the vehicles that run the Ring. (several BMWs, Civic F8 Type-R, Focus RS + Mclaren 720S + others)

We've done work for several years with RSRNurburg

- here is a video of an N55 M2 which we did with them - we outfitted their entire fleet of this application

Many Ring Taxis and rental companies have a big problem during the hot summer months with trying to keep their vehicles on track throughout the day as a lot of these cars do overheat and have overheating problems when being pushed hard for long distances.

Why use Pwr core if you're a radiator manufacturer.

So does this mean only expensive stuff has good cores? Cheap stuff is all Indonesian?

Why come in here talking about the ring when all the people asked for was data. Yet no Data is being presented

[jocamero]

I wish this was true, but here's my experience during a couple track days last weekend in Colorado with outside air temps reaching 95ºF. Morning sessions in < 80ºF were fine. Afternoon, and after about 8 laps, maybe ~16-20 minutes at ~80% of the car's limit I had my oil temps exceeding 275ºF and the car warning me on screen. Only a warning stating continued driving possible. I pulled the power back on the straights and oil temps dropped after a couple easy laps. Coolant remained at 210ºF but after the warning, and easy laps, the coolant temps dropped dramatically before coming back up to 210ºF.

Originally Posted by Tall Tom Cruise

Exactly. My understand is the g80's (and f80's) cooling system is nothing short of absolutely stellar. You can take a stock one to the track in August, beat the absolute piss out of it for hours on hours, and you won't run into ANY heat soak issues/timing being pulled issues whatsoever.

I was reading the text about these products from CSF and it was something along the lines of "One of the weak points in the new G8X chassis is the cooling system". At that point I was like holy shit this is a money grab. Con artist vibes.

Maybe if you big turbo the car then I could see how this might be needed. But stock form/up to stage 2+ this is totally worthless... especially if there is ZERO data provided.

[Tall Tom Cruise]

Originally Posted by jocamero

I wish this was true, but here's my experience during a couple track days last weekend in Colorado with outside air temps reaching 95ºF. Morning sessions in < 80ºF were fine. Afternoon, and after about 8 laps, maybe ~16-20 minutes at ~80% of the car's limit I had my oil temps exceeding 275ºF and the car warning me on screen. Only a warning stating continued driving possible. I pulled the power back on the straights and oil temps dropped after a couple easy laps. Coolant remained at 210ºF but after the warning, and easy laps, the coolant temps dropped dramatically before coming back up to 210ºF.

Interesting. This must be due to the significantly thinner air in CO.

[jocamero]

Totally agree. Track sits at around 5,000' MSL. I'm sure the turbos are working harder.

Originally Posted by Tall Tom Cruise

Interesting. This must be due to the significantly thinner air in CO.

[forcefed]

Originally Posted by jocamero

I wish this was true, but here's my experience during a couple track days last weekend in Colorado with outside air temps reaching 95ºF. Morning sessions in < 80ºF were fine. Afternoon, and after about 8 laps, maybe ~16-20 minutes at ~80% of the car's limit I had my oil temps exceeding 275ºF and the car warning me on screen. Only a warning stating continued driving possible. I pulled the power back on the straights and oil temps dropped after a couple easy laps. Coolant remained at 210ºF but after the warning, and easy laps, the coolant temps dropped dramatically before coming back up to 210ºF.

Don't worry i'm sure an oil cooler upgrade is coming soon lol, now in this case it actually seems necessary when racing.

[JOEYBMWBLUE]

When I had my Supra, I had all the cooling parts from CSF and still experienced high heat levels. It made no difference and especially with that expensive manifold. That thing traps heat. With no data, I'm sorry to say it's all it's all fluff.

[CSF Cooling]

Originally Posted by JOEYBMWBLUE

When I had my Supra, I had all the cooling parts from CSF and still experienced high heat levels. It made no difference and especially with that expensive manifold. That thing traps heat. With no data, I'm sorry to say it's all it's all fluff.

This in unequivocally false - we have published data on every component of our B58 kit, including 3rd party validation by motoiq.com on the manifold performance which is published online - Our 5-piece kits are installed on 2 Toyota factory backed racing Supras in the USA - trolling

[McLaren720s]

Apex Taxi at Nurburgring just made a video the other day where they said the G80 taxi hard laps with their pro drivers in very hot weather over the summer and they experienced zero heat problems.

[CSF Cooling]

Originally Posted by McLaren720s

Apex Taxi at Nurburgring just made a video the other day where they said the G80 taxi hard laps with their pro drivers in very hot weather over the summer and they experienced zero heat problems.

This is on a car that is stock power / no bolt-ons / no-tune

You're not comparing apples to apples

[JOEYBMWBLUE]

Originally Posted by CSF Cooling

This in unequivocally false - we have published data on every component of our B58 kit, including 3rd party validation by motoiq.com on the manifold performance which is published online - Our 5-piece kits are installed on 2 Toyota factory backed racing Supras in the USA - trolling

Interesting, where is this DATA? As far as I know, we've been asking for it on FB for while. Why do you think I'm trolling? is it because I think CSF makes a trashy manifold? I think I'm allowed not to think your product is great w/o being a troll. Here's a screenshot of my turner telling me my manifold doesn't work, I also had your entire cooling package. Also, a friend of mine blew his motor and he was at 190 degrees with your manifold. Should I upload the logs for that as well?