[LuvMyE92]

I figured this would be a good spot to ask, since many of us participating in this subforum are interested in and/or do HPDE.

I drive my G82 at HPDE 2 or maybe 3 times a year. Since it is my only car, I'm not going to modify it for those rare track excursions. I also don't push it to 10/10ths (most of the time) because I self-insure my track events and even if I was insured, I don't want to ball it up and/or hurt myself.

The old axiom "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow" comes to mind often. I started thinking, again, about something like an E90 328 with three pedals (of course) as a cheap track car that wouldn't beat the crap out of me as I drive to and from the track (I'm 80 miles from VIR) or on the occasional "drive it to work to keep everything in good shape" days. I wouldn't put in a cage or even modify the suspension beyond struts and springs and of course some decent track pads and tires. And yes, it would be slower than molasses and I'd probably fall back into the novice run group, LOL, just so that I don't hold up the advanced groups. But probably still plenty of fun.

Then I think, one of the beauties of the G8x is that I can take it, stock, to the track, enjoy it and appreciate it for what it is, and it can take it, it won't hurt it beyond some accelerated tire and brake pad wear. And there's a lot less chance of it breaking down during the expensive weekend than some 12 year-old BMW with unknown maintenance history.

Thoughts?

[Hendo741]

I think its more fun to attempt to drive a fast car fast! Personally, I could never leave my nicer, faster, more capable car at home. Cars are meant to be driven, and these machines are made to be able to be put through the wringer on course. I also pay for track day insurance when I do HPDEs, and by all means I don't want to ball it up, but if I do ill just replace it. It's just a car at the end of the day.

That being said, I generally don't own cars for long periods of time. Over the past decade I average about 10 months of ownership per vehicle purchased. Over the past 2 years I've had a Supra, G42 M240i, 8v RS3, M4CX, and X3MC. I've had the M4 for 18 months now (that's long for me) and will only replace it with an xDrive M2 if they make it.

[FTS]

It is fun to drive a slow car fast, for sure. Up to a point. Regardless of how fast you are in the corners, faster cars will blow by you on the straights and slow you down in the corners. I think spec racing is tremendously fun though, when all cars are similarly slow

There is a middle ground. You don't need 500+ hp for HPDE of course, but a car in which it allows you to actually drive is tremendously fun. I am in the opinion that the current gen cars are driving themselves a bit too much with all of the electronics. I am also in the opinion that if you want the joy and satisfaction from nailing perfect driving techniques corner after corner, especially on a track like VIR, then an older, analog car, like an E36 would be perfect. Additionally, the benefits of such a car are its mechanical simplicity, much cheaper consumables, and ability to increase safety in the car significantly.

The downside is if you go that route, the amount of money people tend to spend on all things performance and safety amounts to big numbers in the end. If you do this for 2-3 HPDEs a year only, you may regret it, but if you have aspirations for eventual club racing, I'd say "go for it."

Best of luck.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by Hendo741

Over the past decade I average about 10 months of ownership per vehicle purchased.

It's been multiple decades for me (I'm old) and I've averaged about 20 months per car over my lifetime, but I always have at least 2 at a time. As many as 6 at once, not that I'm bragging, it's a cry for help.

Originally Posted by FTS

I am also in the opinion that if you want the joy and satisfaction from nailing perfect driving techniques corner after corner, especially on a track like VIR, then an older, analog car, like an E36 would be perfect. Additionally, the benefits of such a car are its mechanical simplicity, much cheaper consumables, and ability to increase safety in the car significantly.

Thanks for the comments, however I'll suggest that a new car like the G8x with all of the nannies and helpers turned off, can feel analog too. That, and (IMHO) with the E36 chassis, aside from not being all that great (I'd rather have an E30 or an E46) the survivors are getting stupid expensive.

And no, I'm not racing. BTDT.

[beamlord]

I have similar thoughts.

Love the g80 on track. But when you start really pushing it, you realize it's not designed as a track car.
So it needs quite some mods.

Now, you can either spend money on the mods, or on a shitbox tracktool. Not quite sure yet what I wanna do.

[TopJimmy]

A cheap stripped out F80 or F82 with the MT6 would be a great track toy. The chassis is great and used track-level parts are plentiful.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Hendo741

I think its more fun to attempt to drive a fast car fast!

I agree.
I tried the slower, cheap track car theory and just wanted to mod it to make it faster

I haven't taken my M3 on track yet as it's only got 500kms on it.
But I can't see it being anywhere near as fast around a track as my second car.

[MJBO]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

The old axiom "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow"

Sounds like the axiom of someone that only owns a slow car

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

A cheap stripped out F80 or F82 with the MT6 would be a great track toy. The chassis is great and used track-level parts are plentiful.

I'm not sure there is such a thing as a "cheap" F8x car, not yet. I was shopping those before I bought the second G82, and prices are still up there... which is why I spent just a little bit more money and bought a much better car.

Scope creep strikes again!

However, you make another excellent point, which is used performance parts. I did that with a brief foray into a certain domestic car that is really not adequate for track work... I was able to buy used/leftover tires, wheels, brakes, etc. for a huge discount and then when I realized that this was not the car for me, I got rid of all of those (after a few track weekends) for a very high percentage of what I paid for them. I think I actually broke even on the wheels/tires.

I only took a bath on the stuff that I had bought new (harness bar, belts, etc.).

[arulm3cx]

I do track my G80 M3 CX and VIR is my home track. I have M perf HAS and Uniball camber plates. Tires GYSC3R. it's so much fun. Car is ready to go as it is from factory if you are not pushing 10/10th and just having fun. Very tail happy though

[D_SheerDrivingPleasure]

You don't want a Miata if VIR is your local track. High HP cars will knock your compression socks off.

[BMWRacer523]

This is always a slippery slope in my experience. I've run the gamut from driving street car to track to buying track car and modding then needing to trailer to full on race cars and back. For now I am enjoying driving the G80 to the track, fill gas, torque wheels, check tire pressures and that's pretty much it. keeping it simple. Of course there are tradeoffs, yes its heavy and expensive on consumables but i do 5-6 weekends a year and i'm not trying to set lap records in the g80. Just having fun, it's pretty capable with a few mods and manage the brakes and tires, it's not too bad.

[Ed_P]

Originally Posted by BMWRacer523

This is always a slippery slope in my experience. I've run the gamut from driving street car to track to buying track car and modding then needing to trailer to full on race cars and back. For now I am enjoying driving the G80 to the track, fill gas, torque wheels, check tire pressures and that's pretty much it. keeping it simple. Of course there are tradeoffs, yes its heavy and expensive on consumables but i do 5-6 weekends a year and i'm not trying to set lap records in the g80. Just having fun, it's pretty capable with a few mods and manage the brakes and tires, it's not too bad.

I traveled the same circle, but have only tracked the G80 once and for whatever reason my addiction seems to have run its course. I am not sure why.

Anyway, I would strongly recommend an E46 to the OP and anyone looking step-up the next rung on the ladder. There is strong aftermarket support and interest in the platform thanks to the success of SpecE46 race class. Start by removing some weight and making some of the modifications allowable under the class rules. You can keep the car streetable to the extent needed. If you decide to sell, you should recoup a greater percentage of your investment given the strong demand for donor cars.

The one time I tracked my G80, I happened to get passed by my former SpecE46 race car, which had also gone out in the instructor group. This was at Lime Rock. I could have put up more of a fight, and on a longer track, I'd probably have an advantage. I didn't want to push it. But my point is: the E46 is a very capable, reliable, and relatively inexpensive choice for a track day car.

[8262S]

Originally Posted by Ed_P

I traveled the same circle, but have only tracked the G80 once and for whatever reason my addiction seems to have run its course. I am not sure why.

Anyway, I would strongly recommend an E46 to the OP and anyone looking step-up the next rung on the ladder. There is strong aftermarket support and interest in the platform thanks to the success of SpecE46 race class. Start by removing some weight and making some of the modifications allowable under the class rules. You can keep the car streetable to the extent needed. If you decide to sell, you should recoup a greater percentage of your investment given the strong demand for donor cars.

The one time I tracked my G80, I happened to get passed by my former SpecE46 race car, which had also gone out in the instructor group. This was at Lime Rock. I could have put up more of a fight, and on a longer track, I'd probably have an advantage. I didn't want to push it. But my point is: the E46 is a very capable, reliable, and relatively inexpensive choice for a track day car.

How much should one expect to spend on the E46 to start an E46 Spec project? And how much on the mods to get it into Spec shape.

I know the sky is the limit on race cars, just looking for a ballpark.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by 8262S

How much should one expect to spend on the E46 to start an E46 Spec project? And how much on the mods to get it into Spec shape.

I know the sky is the limit on race cars, just looking for a ballpark.

You may want to reach out to Turner Motorsport. They build turn-key spec cars, including the car. The best part is they'll find you a worthwhile chassis and engine, and build it to spec. And frankly, I do not believe the cost would break the bank for most.

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-T...kly_Article_72

[BMWRacer523]

Originally Posted by Ed_P

I traveled the same circle, but have only tracked the G80 once and for whatever reason my addiction seems to have run its course. I am not sure why.

Anyway, I would strongly recommend an E46 to the OP and anyone looking step-up the next rung on the ladder. There is strong aftermarket support and interest in the platform thanks to the success of SpecE46 race class. Start by removing some weight and making some of the modifications allowable under the class rules. You can keep the car streetable to the extent needed. If you decide to sell, you should recoup a greater percentage of your investment given the strong demand for donor cars.

The one time I tracked my G80, I happened to get passed by my former SpecE46 race car, which had also gone out in the instructor group. This was at Lime Rock. I could have put up more of a fight, and on a longer track, I'd probably have an advantage. I didn't want to push it. But my point is: the E46 is a very capable, reliable, and relatively inexpensive choice for a track day car.

I hear you on the running the course. I took took a pause from the sport for about 5 years and came back albeit at a slower pace. Racing, towing etc tends to cause burnout after a while. This is why I enjoy the low hassle of driving the g80 now. I agree that e46 is a good choice. I would probably go that route if I was to get a more dedicated track car but that likely won't happen anytime soon.

[BMWRacer523]

Originally Posted by 8262S

How much should one expect to spend on the E46 to start an E46 Spec project? And how much on the mods to get it into Spec shape.

I know the sky is the limit on race cars, just looking for a ballpark.

http://spece46.com/resources/ is a good starting point.

[8262S]

Thanks everyone, I suspect that a $25-50K race car is outside of my reach right now.

I'd like to find an E36 or E46 as a project car, and can wait on the full race build.

[Ed_P]

Originally Posted by 8262S

How much should one expect to spend on the E46 to start an E46 Spec project? And how much on the mods to get it into Spec shape.

I know the sky is the limit on race cars, just looking for a ballpark.

In around 2016, we bought a 2-door coupe, in white (the fastest color), for $3,400. It was a little rough, but since any track car donor is going to need a full refresh anyway, that works to your advantage on the buy. From there, I'd approach in stages:

1. Replace/upgrade all fluids, cooling system components, baffle the oil pan, add track pads with new rotors, lines, rebuilt calipers. Dedicated set of track wheels/tires, studs, new control arms. Replace other wear items if needed (wheel hubs, bearings, etc.). Remove weight. Do a few track days. (budget ~3-4k)

2. Add full MCS suspension, chassis reinforcements, fuel starvation kit. Remove more weight. (budget ~ $7k)

3. Add SE46 exhaust, race diff, roll/harness bar, 6-point harness and race seat. By now, the car is has most of the major SE46 components. Along the way, you've probably added a few other upgrades (shifter, steering wheel, etc.). I could be a little off, but I think you could reach this point with about $16-17k in modifications, all of which will retain value better than if you just throw a bunch of random go fast parts at your car of choice.

[BMWRacer523]

Originally Posted by Ed_P

In around 2016, we bought a 2-door coupe, in white (the fastest color), for $3,400. It was a little rough, but since any track car donor is going to need a full refresh anyway, that works to your advantage on the buy. From there, I'd approach in stages:

1. Replace/upgrade all fluids, cooling system components, baffle the oil pan, add track pads with new rotors, lines, rebuilt calipers. Dedicated set of track wheels/tires, studs, new control arms. Replace other wear items if needed (wheel hubs, bearings, etc.). Remove weight. Do a few track days. (budget ~3-4k)

2. Add full MCS suspension, chassis reinforcements, fuel starvation kit. Remove more weight. (budget ~ $7k)

3. Add SE46 exhaust, race diff, roll/harness bar, 6-point harness and race seat. By now, the car is has most of the major SE46 components. Along the way, you've probably added a few other upgrades (shifter, steering wheel, etc.). I could be a little off, but I think you could reach this point with about $16-17k in modifications, all of which will retain value better than if you just throw a bunch of random go fast parts at your car of choice.

Is SE46 exhaust street legal? Once you add towing to the equation that kinda takes it to a different level IMO. I did drive a mostly race prepped e30 to and from tracks for 2-3 years but that was also 10-12 years ago.

[Ed_P]

Originally Posted by BMWRacer523

Is SE46 exhaust street legal? Once you add towing to the equation that kinda takes it to a different level IMO. I did drive a mostly race prepped e30 to and from tracks for 2-3 years but that was also 10-12 years ago.

No, there's no cat. Unless you have a workaround, that's why I'd suggest adding it later, if/when the car evolves into more of a track rat, or not at all, if you need to keep it more civilized for street driving. The full exhaust swap drops a lot of weight, but the suspension + diff are the most transformative in terms of lap times.