[8262S]

Hello.

My son and I just did our first track day yesterday at Road America. It was incredible!

We have a G80 with the standard sport buckets which were only barely adequate. We both had to quickly master the left leg smashed against the door panel technique, pushed the dead pedal through the firewall, and were using the steering wheel to hold ourselves in the seat. It will not stop us from tracking the car, but the sport buckets are far from ideal.

I really wanted the CF buckets yesterday…. But this is our DD so probably would not have wanted to live with the racing buckets. (If the CF buckets were available in Tartufo I think we would have given it some serious thought!)

Our instructors mentioned making smart changes to our car. One of the thing they mentioned were Schroth (and one other brand I can’t recall) 4 point harness kits.

It appears the lap belts bolt over the factory seatbelts. And the shoulder harnesses click into the rear belt points. The lap belts can be tucked away and shoulder belts removed for daily driving.

Are 4 point kits like this effective in holding your body in place on the track with the standard sport buckets?

And how well do the shoulder harnesses work when they have to come around the top of the seat? I don’t see any holes or space for the shoulder belt harnesses to fit through the seat.

As a first track experience (ever), we were super impressed with the M3. Wow, what a car. The sport buckets were our only complaint, but they weren’t designed for track use and we did not buy the option that was. We were aware of the track complaints with the sport buckets when we ordered it, so this isn’t the cars fault.

I would love to do something to mitigate or improve the sport bucket seat issues on track.

We will be returning to Road America, and also going to another area track (Blackhawk). We are addicted to the track!

[Ximian]

What was described sounds like the Schroth Quick Fit (Pro) harness which uses the rear seat belt connections for mounting to the chassis. The problem with them is that they are only able to be used by specific kinds of seats or bucket seats that allow for the shoulder straps to come across the seat and should at the correct angle. This typically means through a raised headrest which doesn't exist on the sport seats in the G8x. The E9x had seats where the quick fit harness works.

There isn't an option for quick fit-type harnesses for those of us with the carbon bucket seats. I don't think there is ever going to be one for the standard sports seats. Don't try to make these harnesses that were approved for other cars fit onto yours - it's very likely to be unsafe because it was not designed for it.

Next best thing is to work on your core muscles so you can keep your body upright and not rely too much on the steering wheel to push back. You'll know if it's too much when your wrists start hurting. Not sure if it's possible at all, but if you can tilt the front part of the seat up in any way, that certainly helps.

[FriedPiston]

I have these street-legal Schroth harnesses installed: https://www.schrothracing.com/item/p...ia-4-point-asm

[D_SheerDrivingPleasure]

Originally Posted by 8262S

Hello.

My son and I just did our first track day yesterday at Road America. It was incredible!

We have a G80 with the standard sport buckets which were only barely adequate. We both had to quickly master the left leg smashed against the door panel technique, pushed the dead pedal through the firewall, and were using the steering wheel to hold ourselves in the seat. It will not stop us from tracking the car, but the sport buckets are far from ideal.

I really wanted the CF buckets yesterday…. But this is our DD so probably would not have wanted to live with the racing buckets. (If the CF buckets were available in Tartufo I think we would have given it some serious thought!)

Our instructors mentioned making smart changes to our car. One of the thing they mentioned were Schroth (and one other brand I can’t recall) 4 point harness kits.

It appears the lap belts bolt over the factory seatbelts. And the shoulder harnesses click into the rear belt points. The lap belts can be tucked away and shoulder belts removed for daily driving.

Are 4 point kits like this effective in holding your body in place on the track with the standard sport buckets?

And how well do the shoulder harnesses work when they have to come around the top of the seat? I don’t see any holes or space for the shoulder belt harnesses to fit through the seat.

As a first track experience (ever), we were super impressed with the M3. Wow, what a car. The sport buckets were our only complaint, but they weren’t designed for track use and we did not buy the option that was. We were aware of the [...]

Consider the "jerk and lock" technique with the 3 point belts. It worked well for me before upgrading to proper fixed back seat/harness.

1. Slide the seat base far back so your feet barely touch the pedals.
2. Remove all extra slack from the belt by feeding it into the B pillar slot near your left shoulder (right if you are in the UK).
3. Quickly yank shoulder belt to trigger the tensioner lock.
4. hold the belt to maintain lock while sliding the seat base forward to your preferred driving position.
5. Tip: Commence this procedure several minutes before your driving session because it takes some trial and error to getting it just right.

If done correctly the 3 point belts will hold you in place snug on hard braking and turns.

[8262S]

If I can get the top back of the seat off there appears to be room to thread the harness under the headrest.

The bottom pic is the back seat cover where I pulled it back and it appeared to snap off a bit, but I was able to snap it back into place.

[8262S]

If I can get that back headrest cover off, I think the Schroth Quickfits will work.

I was even considering cutting a slot through the back of the headrest cover.

Anyone have any suggestions to getting it off?

[8262S]

The headrest cover is semi-permanently attached to the main back panel.

Cutting a slot is the only option.

Any tips on accomplishing this and making it looks relatively decent?

I should probably figure out how much a replacement seat back cover is before I do anything, right…?

I am surprised there isn’t a market for these seat back covers with a slot in them.

[D_SheerDrivingPleasure]

Originally Posted by 8262S

The headrest cover is semi-permanently attached to the main back panel.

Cutting a slot is the only option.

Any tips on accomplishing this and making it looks relatively decent?

I should probably figure out how much a replacement seat back cover is before I do anything, right…?

I am surprised there isn’t a market for these seat back covers with a slot in them.

There isn't a market for this because of the extensive and costly safety testing needed to certify a harness for use with OEM or aftermarket seats.

Remember that the harnesses shoulder pass throughs in the OEM carbon bucket seats are just for show. I admire the creativity but I would be very skeptical about using the harness with the OEM bucket, let alone cutting new slots but everyone has their own risk tolerance. I don't like to praise Porsche on this forum but at least their GT cars offer an OEM fixed back bucket seat that works properly with a harness.

Also, passing tech inspection might be difficult. Worth keeping that in mind before firing up the Dremel.

If you're planning to track regularly consider buying a seat such as the Cobra nogaro which works with a 4 point QFP even though it's technically only certified for use in the E9x.

Either way, invest in a Simpsons hybrid head and neck restraint. You can use it with a 3 point or harness system. Sorry if you know all this already but just trying to lay out some considerations.

[8262S]

Thanks for the information, I am very new to this and still learning.

The instructors recommended the Schroth quick fit.

On the Schroth site they show the quick fit 4-point set up through the head rest supports exactly like I am thinking about on the G80.

Is there something inherently not safe about the Schroth Quick Fit or Rallye4 ASM 4-point belts?

Here is a screen shot from Schroth on their Quick Fit.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by 8262S

If I can get that back headrest cover off, I think the Schroth Quickfits will work.

No. The Schroth Quick Fit and Quick Fit Pro are only approved to be used with certain cars and seats. The G80/82 is not approved so the first point is that you will or rather you should fail a tech inspection.

The biggest point is that this is potentially a very unsafe thing to do. One of the concerns is the harness actually breaking the seat back into pieces where it would not support the occupant at all.

Don't waste time trying to make it work.

[8262S]

Originally Posted by Ximian

No. The Schroth Quick Fit and Quick Fit Pro are only approved to be used with certain cars and seats. The G80/82 is not approved so the first point is that you will or rather you should fail a tech inspection.

The biggest point is that this is potentially a very unsafe thing to do. One of the concerns is the harness actually breaking the seat back into pieces where it would not support the occupant at all.

Don't waste time trying to make it work.

Thanks for the info, I will abandon this attempt.

I will try the three point lock method described above.

[D_SheerDrivingPleasure]

This article might shed more light on the concern.

https://www.thedrive.com/guides-and-...ead-this-first

If/when you want harnesses I recommend you go visit a local race shop and sit in their seats to see what is comfortable. There are a few options that work well with dual duty cars without compromising the use of the 3 point belt for street use. My F80 with Cobra seats and 4pt QFP...

[8262S]

Originally Posted by D_SheerDrivingPleasure

This article might shed more light on the concern.

https://www.thedrive.com/guides-and-...ead-this-first

If/when you want harnesses I recommend you go visit a local race shop and sit in their seats to see what is comfortable. There are a few options that work well with dual duty cars without compromising the use of the 3 point belt for street use. My F80 with Cobra seats and 4pt QFP...

Thanks for linking that!

[8262S]

I just got off the phone with a Schroth technical advisor. I was calling to see if this G80 seat would ever be approved by them. He confirmed that the Rallye4 is not approved bc of the lack of testing on the downward pressure applied to the rear of the seat (exactly as people said in this thread).

But he said if the seat had a pass-through (the G80 does), the Rallye3 is approved for the G80. The Rallye3 mounts under the left rear shoulder belt retract, so it does not apply any downward pressure on the rear of the seat.

He said that with the pass through they would recommend the Rallye3 for a G80. This is exactly the type of seat the Rallye3 was rated for.

He suggested running it with the rear seat cover removed to allow the harness to not bind on anything between the headrest posts.

[LuvMyE92]

The debate over harnesses with stock seats is as old as... um, well since we all started doing HPDEs. I crashed my Corvette with a five point harness on the stock seats and they protected me just fine without spinal compression or breaking the seat... but then, I was a lot younger then and it's a totally different car than the G80 with no side airbags, etc.

To me, the greatest advantage to the harness (as noted in the OP's original post) is that it keeps you in place. The last time I did one in a stock car, I also wore the OE 3-point, you know, just in case. If you really want to protect yourself in an accident, then you need a real race seat with a five point system. Or six. And HANS.

Road America is a blast, but it's a very fast track with some very dangerous corners where there is no runoff, so the equation does change. My home track is VIR, which is also fast but has much safer runoff options in nearly every turn.

Are those wheels OE or aftermarket? I love 'em!

[8262S]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

The debate over harnesses with stock seats is as old as... um, well since we all started doing HPDEs. I crashed my Corvette with a five point harness on the stock seats and they protected me just fine without spinal compression or breaking the seat... but then, I was a lot younger then and it's a totally different car than the G80 with no side airbags, etc.

To me, the greatest advantage to the harness (as noted in the OP's original post) is that it keeps you in place. The last time I did one in a stock car, I also wore the OE 3-point, you know, just in case. If you really want to protect yourself in an accident, then you need a real race seat with a five point system. Or six. And HANS.

Road America is a blast, but it's a very fast track with some very dangerous corners where there is no runoff, so the equation does change. My home track is VIR, which is also fast but has much safer runoff options in nearly every turn.

Are those wheels OE or aftermarket? I love 'em!

The wheels are forged replicas of the 359M made to OEM G80 specs (same sizes and offset as the 826M’s).

Lots of people asked about them at the track day. Wish I would have gotten a picture of it next to an E46 with 359’s.

I was looking for a wheel that drew on the M3’s legacy.

Thanks for the info.