[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by bimmerfanpk2020

Exactly. Bmw select ends up being 150-200 less than a 72 month finance. Which I do not believe is justified on a car like this. I do not intend to pay the car off (most likely trade in or sell after 3 years). Bmw select at 5.29 comes out to about $1180 vs a 3% 72 month comes out to $1300. Much more interest on the select I feel

The follow up is....


On the bmw select vs the the 72 month. At the 3yr mark which will put you near the current residual rate based upon 12or 10k per year.

Does the math work out better to lease assuming the payment maybe higher but... Tax shelter and confirmed dump price.

Again if there is a ton of value you can always cash it out. But with buying if the recession is bad and rates at that point are 10% plus how many folks will be buying luxury items that are 3yrs old.

Idk- 200x36 is 7200 of payment not paid.

Also have to think of it as the bank is going to get all there money on the front end so a larger chuck of the first few years monthly will be interest vs principal.

You can always add to either an exit sooner and it would apply to principal.

What does a lease look like?

[bimmerfanpk2020]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

The follow up is....


On the bmw select vs the the 72 month. At the 3yr mark which will put you near the current residual rate based upon 12or 10k per year.

Does the math work out better to lease assuming the payment maybe higher but... Tax shelter and confirmed dump price.

Again if there is a ton of value you can always cash it out. But with buying if the recession is bad and rates at that point are 10% plus how many folks will be buying luxury items that are 3yrs old.

Idk- 200x36 is 7200 of payment not paid.

Also have to think of it as the bank is going to get all there money on the front end so a larger chuck of the first few years monthly will be interest vs principal.

You can always add to either an exit sooner and it would apply to principal.

What does a lease look like?

This a great analysis honestly..I'll have to actually sit down and do the math. I know MF on leases is about equivalent to 5.76% so looking around $1500-$1600 on a lease

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by bimmerfanpk2020

This a great analysis honestly..I'll have to actually sit down and do the math. I know MF on leases is about equivalent to 5.76% so looking around $1500-$1600 on a lease

Plus you may get kick back from BMW FS...

With that yeah the payment is higher...but you pay less taxes and can cash out if its positive or negative. An are purely paying for lost value.

In that do you pay less interest? Idk..36 months of interest vs 72s

I'd like to see your math.

I think if you bang up a lease even if no fault of your own bmw is on the hook. Verse you owning the car and dealing with diminished value at time of sale.

Idk..lots to think about in the fine print.

[gs1403]

Originally Posted by bimmerfanpk2020

Do any of y'all recommend BMW select? Last year dec 2021 it was great at 1.9% now BMW select is 5.29%. I'd rather finance at 72 with 3% from BOA. Any good credit unions in Florida to use?

IMO select is worth it at low rates, but much less so at the higher rates we're seeing now, especially with dealer marked-up rates. 5.29% sounds marked up as I believe BMW is at 4.29. Most people don't get that interest gets charged and accrues every period on the balloon (residual) amount that never gets amortized, so the hit from a 1% rate increase is much more substantial on a select loan than traditional financing.

[John4C]

Interesting discussion. I was planning on paying cash (but would be open to finance if the rate was low enough at the time: frankly 5% is too high - I'd pay cash; something in the 3s, which I could get from BOA right now - 3.79% if you have Platinum Honor status - would be temping).

Lease is really a wild card option that could be interesting though. I like the defined out should the economy (and used car prices) tank. I plan to keep the car a bit but if there's a LCI as rumored, maybe I'll want to trade for that? Idk lease is suddenly on my radar a bit. I like the option to just give it back should my plans change.


I'm a finance person so will invariably do a detailed cost comparison when my car is closer. I'm at port now so it's a ways off. I guess it will come down to how much of a premium I'm willing to pay for lease/the right to dump it. It's an option that has value. Just gut feel I wouldn't pay more than 2-3k for that option though so I'm guessing I will end up paying cash/financing if the rate is attractive.

[catalleres]

Originally Posted by John4C

Interesting discussion. I was planning on paying cash (but would be open to finance if the rate was low enough at the time, frankly 5% is too high. I'll pay cash - something in the 3s, which I could get from BOA right now - 3.79% if you have Platinum Honor status - would be temping).

Lease is really a wild car option that could be interesting though. I like the defined out should the economy (and used car prices) tank. I plan to keep the car a bit but if there's a LCI as rumored, maybe I'll want to trade for that? Idk lease is suddenly on my radar a bit. I like the option to just give it back should my plans change.


I'm a finance person so will invariably do a detailed cost comparison when my car is closer. I'm at port now so it's a ways off. I guess it will come down to how much of a premium I'm willing to pay for lease/the right to dump it. It's an option that has value. Just gut feel I wouldn't pay more than 2-3k for that option though so I'm guessing I will end up paying cash/financing if the rate is attractive.

Would you mind sharing your cost comparison when complete? I was also planning to pay cash, but this thread has got me thinking about it.

[John4C]

Originally Posted by catalleres

Would you mind sharing your cost comparison with when complete? I was also planning to pay cash, but this thread has got me thinking about it.

Sure. Happy to when the time comes.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by gs1403

IMO select is worth it at low rates, but much less so at the higher rates we're seeing now, especially with dealer marked-up rates. 5.29% sounds marked up as I believe BMW is at 4.29. Most people don't get that interest gets charged and accrues every period on the balloon (residual) amount that never gets amortized, so the hit from a 1% rate increase is much more substantial on a select loan than traditional financing.

The think the key is if your going to get a car lock in the lowest rate and ensure your getting base money factor and or loan rate. Some say its maybe advantage to pay a small markup such as 2500 as it will be less long term that a marked up rate.

Plus you can roll it into a lease

[Aalfred]

It is certainly interesting looking at different angles. Ive always tried to "own" my cars and pay off the loans in 2-3 yrs but these discussions really give me second thoughts. I do plan on keeping my M3 atleast for 5 yrs but open to switching to another M3 in 3 yrs if I lease but I always thing that if I had paid 2 more years of the car payments, I would have owned that car instead of the dealership or BMWNA owning the car but with the option of selling back the leasing to the dealership, It is as if I am getting the value of "ownership" if it does appreciate. It also protects the depreciation incase someone happens. I had a deer hit on my X3 and even though its not my fault, its still an accident and my value is down. I dont plan on selling it anytime soon but its annoying that things happen that would lower the value of the car significantly.

Curious to see how long people who are planning on financing intend to keep their M3. I know the warranty expired after 4 yrs/50K, but If you are not using it as a DD, is it worth keeping it longer to get the benefit of owning one than leasing it. My next car will be a 911 GTS or GT3 in the next 6-8 yrs. I plan on keeping my M3 till then and switch to the 911 by that time. Dont know if it makes financial sense to do that. Havent really run the numbers yet

[Gfit]

Originally Posted by Aalfred

It is certainly interesting looking at different angles. Ive always tried to "own" my cars and pay off the loans in 2-3 yrs but these discussions really give me second thoughts. I do plan on keeping my M3 atleast for 5 yrs but open to switching to another M3 in 3 yrs if I lease but I always thing that if I had paid 2 more years of the car payments, I would have owned that car instead of the dealership or BMWNA owning the car but with the option of selling back the leasing to the dealership, It is as if I am getting the value of "ownership" if it does appreciate. It also protects the depreciation incase someone happens. I had a deer hit on my X3 and even though its not my fault, its still an accident and my value is down. I dont plan on selling it anytime soon but its annoying that things happen that would lower the value of the car significantly.

Curious to see how long people who are planning on financing intend to keep their M3. I know the warranty expired after 4 yrs/50K, but If you are not using it as a DD, is it worth keeping it longer to get the benefit of owning one than leasing it. My next car will be a 911 GTS or GT3 in the next 6-8 yrs. I plan on keeping my M3 till then and switch to the 911 by that time. Dont know if it makes financial sense to do that. Havent really run the numbers yet

All good points and worth analyzing for your own situation. People that say "leasing sucks" either don't really understand the potential benefits or are just annoyed the days of cheap leases are gone.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by John4C

Interesting discussion. I was planning on paying cash (but would be open to finance if the rate was low enough at the time, frankly 5% is too high. I'll pay cash - something in the 3s, which I could get from BOA right now - 3.79% if you have Platinum Honor status - would be temping).

Lease is really a wild car option that could be interesting though. I like the defined out should the economy (and used car prices) tank. I plan to keep the car a bit but if there's a LCI as rumored, maybe I'll want to trade for that? Idk lease is suddenly on my radar a bit. I like the option to just give it back should my plans change.


I'm a finance person so will invariably do a detailed cost comparison when my car is closer. I'm at port now so it's a ways off. I guess it will come down to how much of a premium I'm willing to pay for lease/the right to dump it. It's an option that has value. Just gut feel I wouldn't pay more than 2-3k for that option though so I'm guessing I will end up paying cash/financing if the rate is attractive.

Yeah but rates will only go higher...the key is finding the lowest rate and net loan cost over whatever period. Locking it in...if at port you maybe able to lock it in now as you have a vin. You may have to start payments but if you find the right loan/bank it maybe worth it.

Now...5% rate on a 100k on a decline car/asset.

You could take that 100k and buy stocks or investments that right now across the board are down 30%. It may be better to eat 5% on whatever term is fiting.

Then take that 100k and dump it in stocks. Absent a crash which is unlucky in the same 36 months your going to get your return of 5% 4-6 times over easy buying stocks at discount now. So it would cover any of the options other than paying cash.

Depending on LCI I don't expect any interior changes or serious mechanical updates. Front grills/bumper normally can be swapped.

Idk

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Aalfred

It is certainly interesting looking at different angles. Ive always tried to "own" my cars and pay off the loans in 2-3 yrs but these discussions really give me second thoughts. I do plan on keeping my M3 atleast for 5 yrs but open to switching to another M3 in 3 yrs if I lease but I always thing that if I had paid 2 more years of the car payments, I would have owned that car instead of the dealership or BMWNA owning the car but with the option of selling back the leasing to the dealership, It is as if I am getting the value of "ownership" if it does appreciate. It also protects the depreciation incase someone happens. I had a deer hit on my X3 and even though its not my fault, its still an accident and my value is down. I dont plan on selling it anytime soon but its annoying that things happen that would lower the value of the car significantly.

Curious to see how long people who are planning on financing intend to keep their M3. I know the warranty expired after 4 yrs/50K, but If you are not using it as a DD, is it worth keeping it longer to get the benefit of owning one than leasing it. My next car will be a 911 GTS or GT3 in the next 6-8 yrs. I plan on keeping my M3 till then and switch to the 911 by that time. Dont know if it makes financial sense to do that. Havent really run the numbers yet

They pushed this gen of M3/M4 out to 27-28 so I doubt bmw is going to let the product stall. So I'm expecting more variations and updates .

Actually I think some of the warranty expires after 36/36 with full going at 4/50k.

GT3 sir GT3 lol


Myself

I plan on 36months...just need the car to go into production and have a timeline of arrival so I can shop around. Need that VIN


I paid a 2500 markup , but with that I can use outside lenders and no markup on bmw FS and rates locked back when rates where sub 4.

I think with any bmw cash back that 2500 will be less... Plus CCA kickback

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Gfit

All good points and worth analyzing for your own situation. People that say "leasing sucks" either don't really understand the potential benefits or are just annoyed the days of cheap leases are gone.

Agree as car prices and loan rates everything is going up but the pros and cons of leasing vs owenships still apply.


Its like buying a house... Do you really make money when you sell it... When you paid interest /taxes over 30yrs... Vs renting lol.

[Aalfred]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

They pushed this gen of M3/M4 out to 27-28 so I doubt bmw is going to let the product stall. So I'm expecting more variations and updates .

Actually I think some of the warranty expires after 36/36 with full going at 4/50k.

GT3 sir GT3 lol


Myself

I plan on 36months...just need the car to go into production and have a timeline of arrival so I can shop around. Need that VIN


I paid a 2500 markup , but with that I can use outside lenders and no markup on bmw FS and rates locked back when rates where sub 4.

I think with any bmw cash back that 2500 will be less... Plus CCA kickback

Thanks. If you are doing 36 months, r u planning on leasing then? I had paid 5K over MSRP for an open allocation and still they jacked up the rate to 5.3% for 60 months. Was able to get 2.9% for 36 at my local CU. Initially I thought Id pay off that sooner but with the stock been battered, I would rather just eat up the 3% interest rate and put my money in stocks for now. I can do 3.35% for 60 months but with them front loading all the interests early, doesnt make sense to delay the payment too long. Im hoping to have my car delivered in Dec...but who knows what is going to happen in 2 months..lol.

As for the GT3..well, with the way the college tuitions are going, I dont know how much I need to save for the kids. Wanted to atleast pay for their undergrad before I can splurge on my toys. So when the kids are all in college, I guess its time for the GT3!!! Hopefully those ridiculous ADM might calm down by then..lol !!!

[John4C]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Yeah but rates will only go higher...the key is finding the lowest rate and net loan cost over whatever period. Locking it in...if at port you maybe able to lock it in now as you have a vin. You may have to start payments but if you find the right loan/bank it maybe worth it.

Now...5% rate on a 100k on a decline car/asset.

You could take that 100k and buy stocks or investments that right now across the board are down 30%. It may be better to eat 5% on whatever term is fiting.

Then take that 100k and dump it in stocks. Absent a crash which is unlucky in the same 36 months your going to get your return of 5% 4-6 times over easy buying stocks at discount now. So it would cover any of the options other than paying cash.

Depending on LCI I don't expect any interior changes or serious mechanical updates. Front grills/bumper normally can be swapped.

Idk

No rush to lock yet.

1) The best I've seen is BOA and their rates only lock 30 days and they're tough to get them extended (I know from experience).
2) Next Fed meeting is 11/1-2 so no need to lock anything until then. Banks don't increase them proactively so any rate increase from today will be after 11/2.

On your other point about the market, I tend to agree but you need to factor taxes, horizon, and where the market is. Yes S&P 3630 seems low today but that may seem high in 2-3 months. I know it's off 30% but I'm firmly in the camp of there's more to go. We're so early in whatever this is that anyone who tells you they know what's next is full of crap. I'm leery of buying stocks today because I think there's potentially a much better investment opportunity in property 2-3 years out. I don't want to be stuck in a stagnant market if a better opportunity presents itself. To each his own, though.

It's all a big personal risk equation at the end of the day. Everyone's answer will be slightly different.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Aalfred

Thanks. If you are doing 36 months, r u planning on leasing then? I had paid 5K over MSRP for an open allocation and still they jacked up the rate to 5.3% for 60 months. Was able to get 2.9% for 36 at my local CU. Initially I thought Id pay off that sooner but with the stock been battered, I would rather just eat up the 3% interest rate and put my money in stocks for now. I can do 3.35% for 60 months but with them front loading all the interests early, doesnt make sense to delay the payment too long. Im hoping to have my car delivered in Dec...but who knows what is going to happen in 2 months..lol.

As for the GT3..well, with the way the college tuitions are going, I dont know how much I need to save for the kids. Wanted to atleast pay for their undergrad before I can splurge on my toys. So when the kids are all in college, I guess its time for the GT3!!! Hopefully those ridiculous ADM might calm down by then..lol !!!

Im doing the math... A lease I avoid 4k on taxes and bmw likely will have some rebates around the holiday season. The G80 gets built late next month so it will be an option but I have sub 4% locked as is.

However, I found a bank that has 1.99 for 60months but I need a vin and be within 30days of delivery. Its toss up if there rates will adjust in 60days. They are like they may but won't be much.

https://policefcu.com/lending/auto-loans/

Agree...could always look in 6-12 months to refy...ask the bank how they handle extra money if you add to your monthly payment. Some will do all of towards principal thus it reduces total interest as the principal gets eaten, and with that you effectively lower the compound interest if that makes sense.

Such a good parent...i don't have kids but my mom was like..nope not paying and my kids I will be like here is 30k buy a used car...go to college..spend it on booze, hookers and coke but please leave.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by John4C

No rush to lock yet.

1) The best I've seen is BOA and their rates only lock 30 days and they're tough to get them extended (I know from experience).
2) Next Fed meeting is 11/1-2 so no need to lock anything until then. Banks don't increase them proactively so any rate increase from today will be after 11/2.

On your other point about the market, I tend to agree but you need to factor taxes, horizon, and where the market is. Yes S&P 3630 seems low today but that may seem high in 2-3 months. I know it's off 30% but I'm firmly in the camp of there's more to go. We're so early in whatever this is that anyone who tells you they know what's next is full of crap. I'm leery of buying stocks today because I think there's potentially a much better investment opportunity in property 2-3 years out. I don't want to be stuck in a stagnant market if a better opportunity presents itself. To each his own, though.

It's all a big personal risk equation at the end of the day. Everyone's answer will be slightly different.

I agree fully...max out roths( backdoor) and any tax free investments or low tax sheltered accounts now especially with stocks.

Who knows what the holiday season will bring and those dreaded or very positive end of year numbers. But, I doubt it will be like the height of covid with 10% plus daily swings

In the end all about making the best in choices for a happy and long life as when we all check out... The only thing we take with us is our teeth and memories.

[catalleres]

Originally Posted by John4C

No rush to lock yet.

1) The best I've seen is BOA and their rates only lock 30 days and they're tough to get them extended (I know from experience).
2) Next Fed meeting is 11/1-2 so no need to lock anything until then. Banks don't increase them proactively so any rate increase from today will be after 11/2.

On your other point about the market, I tend to agree but you need to factor taxes, horizon, and where the market is. Yes S&P 3630 seems low today but that may seem high in 2-3 months. I know it's off 30% but I'm firmly in the camp of there's more to go. We're so early in whatever this is that anyone who tells you they know what's next is full of crap. I'm leery of buying stocks today because I think there's potentially a much better investment opportunity in property 2-3 years out. I don't want to be stuck in a stagnant market if a better opportunity presents itself. To each his own, though.

It's all a big personal risk equation at the end of the day. Everyone's answer will be slightly different.

Well put, each person will have a different risk equation. My thought is pay for the car in cash and then invest the monthly payment amount, dollar cost average it in. May regret it if things rebound quickly but personally will sleep better at night.

[Psychos1s]

I felt super unlocky to have my car arrive the month when the rates have gone up 3 TIMES!! What I decided to do was get the longest term I could to keep my upfront cost down as much as possible. My thought is the rates have to go down eventually. I'm hoping by this time next year or sooner. I will then refinance at a lower rate with a much shorter term. Obviously the issue with this will be depreciation. We'll have to see how it all works out...

[Icealicy]

Can someone guide me on this?

When I initially ordered the M3 without allocation the dealership had me fill out forms and what not. They ended up running my credit BMW Financial Services… now I have no clue what they told the dealer the rate would be… (I know I should have been smarter and been more on top of this, but with work and everything I didn’t pay much attention).

I am now in production begins status.

Question is
1. Best way to go about finding out BMWFS rate given to the dealer (I assume they did because they ran my credit - I was approved but they wouldn’t just leave it at that without given a rate???)

2. If no rate was given do I just call BMWFS and inquire? They shouldn’t have to run my credit again since they already have?

3. I’m not sure if my dealer wants me to finance through BMW or go third party? How do you all handle these kinds of situations?

[KrustyTheClown]

Originally Posted by Icealicy

Can someone guide me on this?

When I initially ordered the M3 without allocation the dealership had me fill out forms and what not. They ended up running my credit BMW Financial Services… now I have no clue what they told the dealer the rate would be… (I know I should have been smarter and been more on top of this, but with work and everything I didn’t pay much attention).

I am now in production begins status.

Question is
1. Best way to go about finding out BMWFS rate given to the dealer (I assume they did because they ran my credit - I was approved but they wouldn’t just leave it at that without given a rate???)

2. If no rate was given do I just call BMWFS and inquire? They shouldn’t have to run my credit again since they already have?

3. I’m not sure if my dealer wants me to finance through BMW or go third party? How do you all handle these kinds of situations?

The approval faxed to your dealer by BMWFS absolutely comes with the interest rate tier at which you've been approved BUT its in code so even if they show you the approval you wont be able to tell what the rate is without further research. Check out the "Official G80 M3 / G82 M4 Quotes, Pricing and Lease Rates Thread" in this forum. People have been posting BMWFS's current rates in that thread.

Word is that BMWFS intentionally stopped posting interest rates a few months ago at the behest of dealers so that dealers could mark up the rates on unsuspecting customers. Im pretty sure my dealer is marking up my rate by 1%, however, they have the leverage and I want the car so Im just going to go along with it and then refinance.

[Icealicy]

Originally Posted by KrustyTheClown

The approval faxed to your dealer by BMWFS absolutely comes with the interest rate tier at which you've been approved BUT its in code so even if they show you the approval you wont be able to tell what the rate is without further research. Check out the "Official G80 M3 / G82 M4 Quotes, Pricing and Lease Rates Thread" in this forum. People have been posting BMWFS's current rates in that thread.

Word is that BMWFS intentionally stopped posting interest rates a few months ago at the behest of dealers so that dealers could mark up the rates on unsuspecting customers. Im pretty sure my dealer is marking up my rate by 1%, however, they have the leverage and I want the car so Im just going to go along with it and then refinance.

KrustyTheClown thanks for the information!

So based on the information you gave I am unable to find out the rate did I catch that right? That just seems so odd. Because how would I know I am approved at x rate with a 1% markup??? For all we know I could be approved at 4% then marked up at 5% correctly or dealer could be shady and say sorry you’ve been approved at 7%…. Am I getting this right lol? I’ll check that thread out.

But how would I lock in a rate with BMWFS then?

Also, how long in are you able to refinance? My understanding is you have to stick with the original financing for x months before you can refinance, correct?