[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by akkando

Gas at $10-$15 a gallon or more and zero resale market will make people think twice. I don't think many will be choosing an ICE M3 in 2033 knowing there's no buyer for the vehicle when they want to get rid of it, and they can't keep it long term because the running costs are insane and gas stations are reduced. May not even be legal to drive long term in their area.

Since the early days of mass produced motoring, it took well over 50 years for there to be enough gas stations for cars to become an everyday proposition for every family.

In a gas station with six pumps, you can push through an average of 72ish cars per hour. The same "area" fits 6 EVs but you can only push through a maximum of 12 cars per hour.

By the time technology improves enough to reduce charging time to 5 minutes for a 75% rapid charge, hopefully the electricity grid will have built enough capacity to power all these millions of NEW EV charging stations around the world that don't yet exist.

I suspect it will be less than 50 years for this critical mass to be achieved with the EVs but don't see it happening in less than 25-30.

In the meantime, if we are real, it will take at least that long to remove millions of petroleum tanks out of the ground and rehabilitate every single gas station in the world. So if the number of gas stations start to go down by 3% per year starting 2035, it will be 2071 at the earliest for the last gas station to shut it's doors.

Therefore, I think BGM-M3COMP & Patton250 are both right, as are you to some extent akkando, EVs are a coming, ICEs are a going, but neither of them will be universally totally in or out for a good 50 or more years. As such, ICEs will retain their value as second hand pass downs for several decades yet.

EV might be inevitable, but ICEs will, in my humble view, be around for the next 50 years, it doesn't matter if they are new-ish or beaten up used ones

[jimbethesda]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Since the early days of mass produced motoring, it took well over 50 years for there to be enough gas stations for cars to become an everyday proposition for every family.

In a gas station with six pumps, you can push through an average of 72ish cars per hour. The same "area" fits 6 EVs but you can only push through a maximum of 12 cars per hour.

By the time technology improves enough to reduce charging time to 5 minutes for a 75% rapid charge, hopefully the electricity grid will have built enough capacity to power all these millions of NEW EV charging stations around the world that don't yet exist.

I suspect it will be less than 50 years for this critical mass to be achieved with the EVs but don't see it happening in less than 25-30.

In the meantime, if we are real, it will take at least that long to remove millions of petroleum tanks out of the ground and rehabilitate every single gas station in the world. So if the number of gas stations start to go down by 3% per year starting 2035, it will be 2071 at the earliest for the last gas station to shut it's doors.

Therefore, I think BGM-M3COMP & Patton250 are both right, as are you to some extent akkando, EVs are a coming, ICEs are a going, but neither of them will be universally totally in or out for a good 50 or more years. As such, ICEs will retain their value as second hand pass downs for several decades yet.

EV might be inevitable, but ICEs will, in my humble view, be around for the next 50 years, it doesn't matter if they are new-ish or beaten up used ones

Good post. One thing though. You won't need nearly as many charging stations as you needed gas stations. For most drivers, 99% of the time they will charge at home.

Suburban gas stations won't convert to charging locations, they will disappear. Highway gas stations, especially ones that have large food offerings will have a bright future.

Everyone is different, obviously, but if I only owned an EV, I would need to charge outside my house maybe 1-2 times a year.

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by jimbethesda

Good post. One thing though. You won't need nearly as many charging stations as you needed gas stations. For most drivers, 99% of the time they will charge at home.

Suburban gas stations won't convert to charging locations, they will disappear. Highway gas stations, especially ones that have large food offerings will have a bright future.

Everyone is different, obviously, but if I only owned an EV, I would need to charge outside my house maybe 1-2 times a year.

That sounds good for driving to work M-F. How many people do you think are on the roads traveling during the summer and weekends? Millions! There will be stations everywhere. I'm going to start my own charging truck biz!! Instead of towing peeps, I will come charge your shit for a fee. Lol

[jimbethesda]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

That sounds good for driving to work M-F. How many people do you think are on the roads traveling during the summer and weekends? Millions! There will be stations everywhere. I'm going to start my own charging truck biz!! Instead of towing peeps, I will come charge your shit for a fee. Lol

Now that sounds like a good business!

[WickedBMW]

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/12/10/...irst-time.html

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

That sounds good for driving to work M-F. How many people do you think are on the roads traveling during the summer and weekends? Millions! There will be stations everywhere. I'm going to start my own charging truck biz!! Instead of towing peeps, I will come charge your shit for a fee. Lol

Would you be carrying a diesel generator?

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by WickedBMW

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/12/10/...irst-time.html

Trouble maker

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Would you be carrying a diesel generator?

Lol. Hydrogen/nuclear battery charger:-)

[KevinGS]

As a longtime ICE fan, as we all are, I'm starting to come around on EVs.

I've owned a few V8s, and I still own an S65, which I adore. I just love the sound and fury of the experience. But EVs have already proven to be incredibly fast, and can be quite efficient. Hec, my G82 is pretty damn fast, and compared to my E93, super efficient.

Do I miss the sound of my S65 when I'm driving my G82? Occasionally, but not as often as I thought. I'm actually OK with speed without a raucous ICE soundtrack to match. Hec, half the time I'm in my G82, I just turn off the exhaust altogether, and I enjoy the serenity of having all that power without the soundtrack (and sometimes I turn the exhaust off so my phone call is unencumbered).

Thus, for me, I'm ready for an EV that will give me immense power, but with little to no sound. And we all know what's coming: Car companies are going to be able to pipe whatever sound you want right into the cabin of your EV. You like the S65 engine note? Well, here you go...and as the revs climb in the EV, you'll hear an S65 induction/exhaust note. Sure, it may take them a few tries to get the sound perfect, but they will. And then you'll be able to pump in various soundtracks into the cabin, even the sound of an F1 car. So you'll have speed and simulated sound, and honestly, I could get used to that. And I like the idea of being able to turn it off, just like I do now in my G82. Yes, it will be video-gamish, but hec, cars are becoming video-gamish anyway with all the electronic aids for braking, steering, throttle mapping, and plenty more.

My other biggest problem with EVs have been the weight of the batteries, making even the sportiest EVs feel like fast barges. The cars are just too heavy to be considered agile and lithe. But they're already working on that too, and as battery technology advances, the materials will be lighter and lighter...so then the weight penalty will become less and less.

So, for me, I'm pretty close to being ready for an EV. I'm no longer as concerned about the loss of the ICE sound, because we know sound engineers will figure that out, and will give us enthusiasts a variety of sounds options we want (Ferrari may be able to make a mint selling their naturally-aspirated V8 soundtrack to other car companies, along with Lambo and their V12, and even Chevy and their LS or LT engines). And if they can keep the weight in check, I think I'll easily be able to migrate to an EV. We also may miss the pure vibrational energy pumping through an ICE car, which is seemingly irreplaceable. But they could make the seat and steering wheel rumble a bit, for you diehard enthusiasts. Engineers will work their magic.

Having said that, I'm holding on to my S65 until that thing dies.

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

As a longtime ICE fan, as we all are, I'm starting to come around on EVs.

I've owned a few V8s, and I still own an S65, which I adore. I just love the sound and fury of the experience. But EVs have already proven to be incredibly fast, and can be quite efficient. Hec, my G82 is pretty damn fast, and compared to my E93, super efficient.

Do I miss the sound of my S65 when I'm driving my G82? Occasionally, but not as often as I thought. I'm actually OK with speed without a raucous ICE soundtrack to match. Hec, half the time I'm in my G82, I just turn off the exhaust altogether, and I enjoy the serenity of having all that power without the soundtrack (and sometimes I turn the exhaust off so my phone call is unencumbered).

Thus, for me, I'm ready for an EV that will give me immense power, but with little to no sound. And we all know what's coming: Car companies are going to be able to pipe whatever sound you want right into the cabin of your EV. You like the S65 engine note? Well, here you go...and as the revs climb in the EV, you'll hear an S65 induction/exhaust note. Sure, it may take them a few tries to get the sound perfect, but they will. And then you'll be able to pump in various soundtracks into the cabin, even the sound of an F1 car. So you'll have speed and simulated sound, and honestly, I could get used to that. And I like the idea of being able to turn it off, just like I do now in my G82. Yes, it will be video-gamish, but hec, cars are becoming video-gamish anyway with all the electronic aids for braking, steering, throttle mapping, and plenty more.

My other biggest problem with EVs have been the weight of the batteries, making even the sportiest EVs feel like fast barges. The cars are just too heavy to be considered agile and lithe. But they're already working on that too, and as battery technology advances, the materials will be lighter and lighter...so then the weight penalty will become less and less.

So, for me, I'm pretty close to being ready for an EV. I'm no longer as concerned about the loss of the ICE sound, because we know sound engineers will figure that out, and will give us enthusiasts a variety of sounds options what we want (hec, Ferrari may be able to make a mint selling their naturally-aspirated V8 soundtrack to other car companies). And if they can keep the weight in check, I think I'll easily be able to migrate to an EV. We also may miss the pure vibrational energy pumping through an ICE car, which is seemingly irreplaceable. But they could make the seat and steering wheel rumble a bit for you diehard enthusiasts. Engineers will work their magic.

Having said that, I'm holding on to my S65 until that thing dies.

Anyone have land to sell the government for all these batteries that will be piling up in the years to come? Or maybe we can chuck them in the ocean or send to space? I'm totally not a free hugger, just wondering the plan for all that toxic shit!!

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

As a longtime ICE fan, as we all are, I'm starting to come around on EVs.

I've owned a few V8s, and I still own an S65, which I adore. I just love the sound and fury of the experience. But EVs have already proven to be incredibly fast, and can be quite efficient. Hec, my G82 is pretty damn fast, and compared to my E93, super efficient.

Do I miss the sound of my S65 when I'm driving my G82? Occasionally, but not as often as I thought. I'm actually OK with speed without a raucous ICE soundtrack to match. Hec, half the time I'm in my G82, I just turn off the exhaust altogether, and I enjoy the serenity of having all that power without the soundtrack (and sometimes I turn the exhaust off so my phone call is unencumbered).

Thus, for me, I'm ready for an EV that will give me immense power, but with little to no sound. And we all know what's coming: Car companies are going to be able to pipe whatever sound you want right into the cabin of your EV. You like the S65 engine note? Well, here you go...and as the revs climb in the EV, you'll hear an S65 induction/exhaust note. Sure, it may take them a few tries to get the sound perfect, but they will. And then you'll be able to pump in various soundtracks into the cabin, even the sound of an F1 car. So you'll have speed and simulated sound, and honestly, I could get used to that. And I like the idea of being able to turn it off, just like I do now in my G82. Yes, it will be video-gamish, but hec, cars are becoming video-gamish anyway with all the electronic aids for braking, steering, throttle mapping, and plenty more.

My other biggest problem with EVs have been the weight of the batteries, making even the sportiest EVs feel like fast barges. The cars are just too heavy to be considered agile and lithe. But they're already working on that too, and as battery technology advances, the materials will be lighter and lighter...so then the weight penalty will become less and less.

So, for me, I'm pretty close to being ready for an EV. I'm no longer as concerned about the loss of the ICE sound, because we know sound engineers will figure that out, and will give us enthusiasts a variety of sounds options what we want (Ferrari may be able to make a mint selling their naturally-aspirated V8 soundtrack to other car companies, along with Lambo and their V12, and even Chevy and their LS or LT engines). And if they can keep the weight in check, I think I'll easily be able to migrate to an EV. We also may miss the pure vibrational energy pumping through an ICE car, which is seemingly irreplaceable. But they could make the seat and steering wheel rumble a bit for you diehard enthusiasts. Engineers will work their magic.

Having said that, I'm holding on to my S65 until that thing dies.

C8 development was actually made with EV in mind lol.

The c9 will absolutely be ev. It’ll be a plaid for corvette lovers. Now THAT I’m excited for. As a plaid is unbeatable. A Chiron barely beat it and the plaid didn’t even have the 200mph software updated to it yet.

I love the future!!!

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by jimbethesda

Good post. One thing though. You won't need nearly as many charging stations as you needed gas stations. For most drivers, 99% of the time they will charge at home.

Suburban gas stations won't convert to charging locations, they will disappear. Highway gas stations, especially ones that have large food offerings will have a bright future.

Everyone is different, obviously, but if I only owned an EV, I would need to charge outside my house maybe 1-2 times a year.

Bingo bango!!!

It’ll be the sad truth unfolding sooner than we think lol

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

Anyone have land to sell the government for all these batteries that will be piling up in the years to come? Or maybe we can chuck them in the ocean or send to space? I'm totally not a free hugger, just wondering the plan for all that toxic shit!!

We'll send all those batteries to some third-world country we don't care about and contract with them to dispose of them. Or maybe we'll send all the non-recyclable parts into space.

But let's face it, we don't do a good job of disposing all the trash we make in the world now, and we don't seem to care. Will that change in the future? We'll see. Capitalism and progress often wins out over pollution and toxic waste concerns.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

C8 development was actually made with EV in mind lol.

The c9 will absolutely be ev. It’ll be a plaid for corvette lovers. Now THAT I’m excited for. As a plaid is unbeatable. A Chiron barely beat it and the plaid didn’t even have the 200mph software updated to it yet.

I love the future!!!

Exactly. An electric 911 or Boxster sounds pretty sweet to me, just pipe me in some sound, that I can turn on and off, and I'm good.

And for that matter, an EV M3 sounds OK...and just give me the option to pipe in some S65 induction & exhaust notes.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

We'll send all those batteries to some third-world country we don't care about and contract with them to dispose of them. Or maybe we'll send all the non-recyclable parts into space.

But let's face it, we don't do a good job of disposing all the trash we make in the world now, and we don't seem to care. Will that change in the future? We'll see. Capitalism and progress often wins out over pollution and toxic waste concerns.

It is exactly that kind of behaviour and mentality that got us into this shit in the first place, otherwise, what was the point of having EVs to begin with?

This Far Side image explains it best

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

It is exactly that kind of behaviour and mentality that got us into this shit in the first place, otherwise, what was the point of having EVs to begin with?

This Far Side image explains it best

LOL indeed

But as a country, we really don't care about preservation, or we would live differently.

Producing billions of batteries and not being able to dispose of them is no different than the other billions and billions of items we've produced around the globe over the years with no real plan to dispose of them (medical waste, plastic, silica gel, fluorescent light bulbs, glass thermometers, electronics, just to name a few). It's what we do. We don't care about the "unintended consequences", even when those consequences are staring at us right in the face.

It's all about Instant Gratification.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

Exactly. An electric 911 or Boxster sounds pretty sweet to me, just pipe me in some sound, that I can turn on and off, and I'm good.

And for that matter, an EV M3 sounds OK...and just give me the option to pipe in some S65 induction & exhaust notes.

Yes sir!!! That would be awesome!

[Cliff Bear]

Let's also not forget the severely diminished range in cold weather. I just watched a video on CNBC by owner of a Mach-e who went from 300 miles to 200 miles range in cold weather in NY.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

LOL indeed

But as a country, we really don't care about preservation, or we would live differently.

Producing billions of batteries and not being able to dispose of them is no different than the other billions and billions of items we've produced around the globe over the years with no real plan to dispose of them (medical waste, plastic, silica gel, fluorescent light bulbs, glass thermometers, electronics, just to name a few). It's what we do. We don't care about the "unintended consequences", even when those consequences are staring at us right in the face.

It's all about Instant Gratification.

I know how to determine whether I can take you or anyone else seriously when they make a statement like that by the way they live. So unless you have solar panels on your house and are off the grid, drive EV already, recycle absolutely everything you have, have energy efficient lightbulbs in your house, grow a garden and basically consume nothing you don’t create yourself then a statement like you made is nothing more than virtue signaling. So if you really feel that way there’s absolutely no way you own an M3. If you did your statement would be worse than virtue singling it would be hypocritical.

[jimbethesda]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I know how to determine whether I can take you or anyone else seriously when they make a statement like that by the way they live. So unless you have solar panels on your house and are off the grid, drive EV already, recycle absolutely everything you have, have energy efficient lightbulbs in your house, grow a garden and basically consume nothing you don’t create yourself then a statement like you made is nothing more than virtue signaling. So if you really feel that way there’s absolutely no way you own an M3. If you did your statement would be worse than virtue singling it would be hypocritical.

Or maybe he's just self aware.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by jimbethesda

Or maybe he's just self aware.

Brother if I step out in a street and an 18 wheeler is coming my way I do a hell of a lot more than just become self aware I get the hell out of the way. So if you really do belong to the church of global warming and are dead serious and have total faith in it then I suspect you would be doing something about it personally otherwise it’s just paying lip service. That’s my opinion.

[jimbethesda]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Brother if I step out in a street and an 18 wheeler is coming my way I do a hell of a lot more than just become self aware I get the hell out of the way. So if you really do belong to the church of global warming and are dead serious and have total faith in it then I suspect you would be doing something about it personally otherwise it's just paying lip service. That's my opinion.

This analogy is as bad as your heart disease - COVID analogy.

If I don't step out of the way, I die. If I, one individual, does nothing to lower my carbon footprint, the effect on Earth is essentially 0. Now if the world as a whole enacts policies to lower carbon output, there is a big positive effect on earth.

So, I fully support governments lowering carbon emissions. As I said, bans and mandates are a really dumb way to accomplish this. My strong preference is with a carbon tax and let the free market figure out the best way. This is fully consistent with capitalism, and in fact, a required part of it.

So, you can still embrace carbon lowering policies and drive an gas guzzler.

It's always a bad idea to assume what others think.