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      12-14-2021, 07:20 PM   #155
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Right.

Which is why i said EV was thought of as commuter replacement only.

Yet the most advanced, fastest production cars every produced in automotive history, are switching to EV now. They're not even waiting until 2035 lol. That's my point.

When smaller markets like dodge, GM, ford are shifting to EV, guess where everyone else will start moving foward to?

Yup. EV.

Imagine BMW still producing an ICE M3 or ICE "x" car only for it to get rocked by a EV hellcat.
Why did you buy M3. They sell EVs everywhere already and they’re faster than M3? You’re so involved in this and almost celebrating that toaster ovens and vacuum cleaners are taking over the passion of ICE high powered cars. Why get M3
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      12-14-2021, 07:27 PM   #156
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Toyota just announced that 30% of their production in 2030 will be EV which means 70% will still be ICE. Ferrari, Porsche are small manufacturers.

Right.

Which is why i said EV was thought of as commuter replacement only.

Yet the most advanced, fastest production cars every produced in automotive history, are switching to EV now. They're not even waiting until 2035 lol. That's my point.

When smaller markets like dodge, GM, ford are shifting to EV, guess where everyone else will start moving foward to?

Yup. EV.

Imagine BMW still producing an ICE M3 or ICE "x" car only for it to get rocked by a EV hellcat.
Why are you so obsessed with straight line speed? You keep writing that ICE cars will get smoked by EV cars. Understand this: most DRIVING enthusiasts don't care that a Tesla will beat them to the next stoplight. That party trick gets old after the first day.

There's a reason why BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo are moving heaven and earth to find solutions that will prolong the existence of combustion engines in their mainstream sports cars. They know EVs will not satisfy their customers and fail to provide necessary character and brand differentiation. You can be sure that future EVs will have engineered emotion in them (artificial sound, manipulated torque curves, fake gears shifts etc). The automotive equivalent to a blow up doll.
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      12-14-2021, 07:41 PM   #157
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Why are you so obsessed with straight line speed? You keep writing that ICE cars will get smoked by EV cars. Understand this: most DRIVING enthusiasts don't care that a Tesla will beat them to the next stoplight. That party trick gets old after the first day.

There's a reason why BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo are moving heaven and earth to find solutions that will prolong the existence of combustion engines in their mainstream sports cars. They know EVs will not satisfy their customers and fail to provide necessary character and brand differentiation. You can be sure that future EVs will have engineered emotion in them (artificial sound, manipulated torque curves, fake gears shifts etc). The automotive equivalent to a blow up doll.
I think this guy is undercover Tesla pole smoker.
In every thread he’s celebrating fn Tesla POS.
If I ever need to buy EV it will not be from Starbucks hipster dem crowd who drives Tesla lol
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      12-14-2021, 07:56 PM   #158
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The article included a link to the Auto Motor und Sport interview dated from November. I think it answers many of your questions. Bottom line, BMW will be offering several different powertrain solutions and not following the same path of AMG or other competitors. I personally think BMW will stand out as the enthusiast's choice for the next decade in comparison to Audi or Mercedes. I also predict the CSL will be awesome.


https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...aendigen-m-an/

How long does an M3 generation last? 7-8MY's?

That would mean the G8x would finalize in 2028-2029? Thus his statement possibly holding true that the S58 we currently have, WILL last until the end of the decade.

The next generation will be definitely be a hybrid or EV. He didn't state it will have the 6cyl after 2030.
I don't know. My general point being that enthusiasts don't need to concede to EVs when companies like BMW still see value in offering ICEs in their performance cars for the foreseeable future. They know what their M customers truly desire and have worked hard to extend the life of their large combustion engines. We should commend BMW for taking the road less travelled rather than succumb to societal pressures.
Gas at $10-$15 a gallon or more and zero resale market will make people think twice. I don't think many will be choosing an ICE M3 in 2033 knowing there's no buyer for the vehicle when they want to get rid of it, and they can't keep it long term because the running costs are insane and gas stations are reduced. May not even be legal to drive long term in their area.
Agree they won't be choosing a 10 year old car as their daily driver in 2033. However, I do believe there will be a healthy number of enthusiasts who'll want a G80 as their weekend toy (and an autonomous driving Tesla as their commuter). $10-$15 gallon gas won't matter as much when these cars will only be used for entertainment purposes.
If buying a car for entertainment purpose it doesn't need to seat five people. I think those looking for weekend only ICE cars needing $15 gallon gas are going to be looking at true sports cars over a tuned up 3 series.
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      12-14-2021, 07:57 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by Chicane_ View Post
Why are you so obsessed with straight line speed? You keep writing that ICE cars will get smoked by EV cars. Understand this: most DRIVING enthusiasts don't care that a Tesla will beat them to the next stoplight. That party trick gets old after the first day.

There's a reason why BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo are moving heaven and earth to find solutions that will prolong the existence of combustion engines in their mainstream sports cars. They know EVs will not satisfy their customers and fail to provide necessary character and brand differentiation. You can be sure that future EVs will have engineered emotion in them (artificial sound, manipulated torque curves, fake gears shifts etc). The automotive equivalent to a blow up doll.
Everyone is obsessed with straight line speed.

Hence why people want x-drives, because they want to build power TO PUT the power down, in a straight line. There's very few people who buys these cars with the intention to track it. And even fewer that actually do.

I'm a fan of cars. I don't give a fuck if it's powered by shit. If it goes fast, i like it. If it looks cool, i like it. I love automotive evolution. EV is the future. And you can say yeah no shit it is, or no it isn't but even if i didn't exist on this forum, all of what i said WILL come true.

Didn't lambo said they're going to produce the last V12 in their next model? What's next after? A hybrid V10? Possibly. What are they really going to do? I know. Go EV.

You're crying like i'm preaching that the day will be tomorrow when all of this is happening. I'm posting as a reality check because it seems that people think this is all a hoax. The whole "ban", car makers going EV.

We reached the pinnacle of ICE. We saw the best. Now we approach the next phase.

Deal with it already.
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      12-14-2021, 07:58 PM   #160
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Why did you buy M3. They sell EVs everywhere already and they’re faster than M3? You’re so involved in this and almost celebrating that toaster ovens and vacuum cleaners are taking over the passion of ICE high powered cars. Why get M3
My tesla is coming in spring to fulfill my daily driving duties.

I got the M3 as an addition to my corvette. A toy that will get used a bit more often than my other toy.

It's good to have options. If i like tesla, should i just have 3 teslas then?
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      12-14-2021, 07:59 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP View Post
Everyone is obsessed with straight line speed.

Hence why people want x-drives, because they want to build power TO PUT the power down, in a straight line. There's very few people who buys these cars with the intention to track it. And even fewer that actually do.

I'm a fan of cars. I don't give a fuck if it's powered by shit. If it goes fast, i like it. If it looks cool, i like it. I love automotive evolution. EV is the future. And you can say yeah no shit it is, or no it isn't but even if i didn't exist on this forum, all of what i said WILL come true.

Didn't lambo said they're going to produce the last V12 in their next model? What's next after? A hybrid V10? Possibly. What are they really going to do? I know. Go EV.

You're crying like i'm preaching that the day will be tomorrow when all of this is happening. I'm posting as a reality check because it seems that people think this is all a hoax. The whole "ban", car makers going EV.

We reached the pinnacle of ICE. We saw the best. Now we approach the next phase.

Deal with it already.
Go join hipsterTesla.com already
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      12-14-2021, 08:04 PM   #162
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I can join all the tesla forums i could.

Fact is i still have an M3. So here i am
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      12-14-2021, 08:04 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by akkando View Post
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Originally Posted by Chicane_ View Post
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Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP View Post
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Originally Posted by Chicane_ View Post
The article included a link to the Auto Motor und Sport interview dated from November. I think it answers many of your questions. Bottom line, BMW will be offering several different powertrain solutions and not following the same path of AMG or other competitors. I personally think BMW will stand out as the enthusiast's choice for the next decade in comparison to Audi or Mercedes. I also predict the CSL will be awesome.


https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...aendigen-m-an/

How long does an M3 generation last? 7-8MY's?

That would mean the G8x would finalize in 2028-2029? Thus his statement possibly holding true that the S58 we currently have, WILL last until the end of the decade.

The next generation will be definitely be a hybrid or EV. He didn't state it will have the 6cyl after 2030.
I don't know. My general point being that enthusiasts don't need to concede to EVs when companies like BMW still see value in offering ICEs in their performance cars for the foreseeable future. They know what their M customers truly desire and have worked hard to extend the life of their large combustion engines. We should commend BMW for taking the road less travelled rather than succumb to societal pressures.
Gas at $10-$15 a gallon or more and zero resale market will make people think twice. I don't think many will be choosing an ICE M3 in 2033 knowing there's no buyer for the vehicle when they want to get rid of it, and they can't keep it long term because the running costs are insane and gas stations are reduced. May not even be legal to drive long term in their area.
Agree they won't be choosing a 10 year old car as their daily driver in 2033. However, I do believe there will be a healthy number of enthusiasts who'll want a G80 as their weekend toy (and an autonomous driving Tesla as their commuter). $10-$15 gallon gas won't matter as much when these cars will only be used for entertainment purposes.
If buying a car for entertainment purpose it doesn't need to seat five people. I think those looking for weekend only ICE cars needing $15 gallon gas are going to be looking at true sports cars over a tuned up 3 series.
Fair point. I suppose I'm assuming there will still be a following for 'classic' sport saloons.
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      12-14-2021, 08:18 PM   #164
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This back and forth of who's right who's wrong...who cares. Unless you have a crystal ball, no one knows what the future holds. For all you know tomorrow might be your last day. I wouldn't worry about what I'll be driving in 10, 20, or 30 years. I'm sure it'll be something great (hopefully). Let's enjoy the cars of today and make the best of it before they are gone.
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      12-14-2021, 08:21 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP View Post
Everyone is obsessed with straight line speed.

Hence why people want x-drives, because they want to build power TO PUT the power down, in a straight line. There's very few people who buys these cars with the intention to track it. And even fewer that actually do.

I'm a fan of cars. I don't give a fuck if it's powered by shit. If it goes fast, i like it. If it looks cool, i like it. I love automotive evolution. EV is the future. And you can say yeah no shit it is, or no it isn't but even if i didn't exist on this forum, all of what i said WILL come true.

Didn't lambo said they're going to produce the last V12 in their next model? What's next after? A hybrid V10? Possibly. What are they really going to do? I know. Go EV.

You're crying like i'm preaching that the day will be tomorrow when all of this is happening. I'm posting as a reality check because it seems that people think this is all a hoax. The whole "ban", car makers going EV.

We reached the pinnacle of ICE. We saw the best. Now we approach the next phase.

Deal with it already.
You sound like a 21 yr old Jalopnik writer with a degree in gender studies.

Don't you have a protest to be at?
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      12-14-2021, 08:28 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by iviegatron View Post
This back and forth of who's right who's wrong...who cares. Unless you have a crystal ball, no one knows what the future holds. For all you know tomorrow might be your last day. I wouldn't worry about what I'll be driving in 10, 20, or 30 years. I'm sure it'll be something great (hopefully). Let's enjoy the cars of today and make the best of it before they are gone.
Agreed. I'm not posting about being right. I don't care who's right or who's wrong. The point of this thread is to give an outlook of what WILL happen.
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      12-14-2021, 08:29 PM   #167
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You sound like a 21 yr old Jalopnik writer with a degree in gender studies.

Don't you have a protest to be at?
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      12-14-2021, 08:37 PM   #168
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We have had our disagreements in the past but you are spot on here. EV is the future (unfortunately) and I don't see a path to ICE.
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      12-14-2021, 08:54 PM   #169
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We have had our disagreements in the past but you are spot on here. EV is the future (unfortunately) and I don't see a path to ICE.
Hydrogen.
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      12-14-2021, 09:00 PM   #170
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Agreed. I'm not posting about being right. I don't care who's right or who's wrong. The point of this thread is to give an outlook of what WILL happen.
Not pointing fingers at you, just saying in general. What will happen in the future are just predictions based on what we know today. That can all change if something better than EV came out. Again, who knows. I'm just glad I have a G80 M3 sitting in my garage and I get to enjoy driving it.
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      12-14-2021, 09:03 PM   #171
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Hydrogen.
This in 20 years. Bookmark this post! You heard it here first.
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      12-15-2021, 04:29 AM   #172
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Not pointing fingers at you, just saying in general. What will happen in the future are just predictions based on what we know today. That can all change if something better than EV came out. Again, who knows. I'm just glad I have a G80 M3 sitting in my garage and I get to enjoy driving it.
It's only predictions in terms of actual dates.

The actual outcome is going to happen, no matter what any of us will say. We can think of every excuse or reasoning on why it shouldn't happen, whether we involve politics or not. It's going to happen. That's the biggest hole in anyones' argument towards this EV subject.

I'm not an EV nut. This is real talk.

We can be car enthusiasts and speak the truth too you know.

https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/automaker-ev-plans/

For some on that list, it's happening sooner. So plans do change.

People really think this is a hoax and they're going to change their mind, eliminate the EV plan and go back to ICE lol.
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      12-15-2021, 05:00 AM   #173
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It's only predictions in terms of actual dates.

The actual outcome is going to happen, no matter what any of us will say. We can think of every excuse or reasoning on why it shouldn't happen, whether we involve politics or not. It's going to happen. That's the biggest hole in anyones' argument towards this EV subject.

I'm not an EV nut. This is real talk.

We can be car enthusiasts and speak the truth too you know.

https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/automaker-ev-plans/

For some on that list, it's happening sooner. So plans do change.

People really think this is a hoax and they're going to change their mind, eliminate the EV plan and go back to ICE lol.
I’ll give you one thing brother you sure are filled with confidence. I’ve never heard anyone on any subject be so positive that they are right about something that’s going to happen in the future. Even politicians. The funny part is you have a percentage possibility of being right so two years from now you might be able to come back and give us a partial “see I told you so.”

So here’s my own, overbearing and full of myself prediction. I don’t believe EV will make it past 50% for the next 60 years. We have a massive oil industry here that will fight it and they have very powerful connections. Also the EV fan boy side had better hit the books when it comes to technology because what they have now sucks. How is EV going to power tractor trailers? Jet planes? Winnebagos? Farm tractors? Just to name a few. And I don’t care what anyone has said I have not read anywhere where they are even close to increasing charging times which is going to throw a massive wrench in your predictions. I travel 4000 miles a month for my work. I love having an efficient vehicle for that. In fact I drive a Toyota Camry hybrid. 40 miles to the gallon baby. I love it. I am not going to drive from Tampa to Atlanta and stop at some freaking charging station for an hour to get 50%. So until they have charging stations with very big parking lots everywhere they have gas stations and they can charge these cars to 90% in under 10 minutes your prediction is nothing more than that. A prediction. And I still don’t see how they’ll ever produce an electric motor that out does a diesel engine as far as pulling power for tractor trailers. I’m not saying they won’t invent one someday but I haven’t seen anything yet.

Now having said all this please understand one thing and that is I think electric vehicles are pretty cool. I always have. I think Tesla makes ugly cars but other manufacturers like Mercedes-Benz and BMW will make cool looking ones. I think the idea of them going extremely fast is very cool also. I like the idea that the consumer has the option. However I will fight tooth and nail to make sure that our government doesn’t force this technology on the people like they have in Europe and simple free market principles and capitalism allow it to take its natural course. It should not be the religion of global warming that calls the shots on this.
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      12-15-2021, 06:19 AM   #174
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Brother try reading what I wrote. I'm absolutely not afraid of change so long as the free market and capitalism dictate it and not some religious government officials.

Auto manufacturers can say anything they want. Let's see what happens. I'm banking that you are wrong on almost all your predictions.
Lol I must be in the twilight zone.

How am I wrong when it's happening?

Exotic super cars? Turning ev

Regular cars like the hellcat? Turning ev

The freaking corvette for the c9 generation? Turning ev

Everyone is going ev dude can't you see? This isn't 2010 when Tesla was out and people were wondering if others will follow.

They're doing it NOW.

What are you talking about? I'm not saying ice will be dead tomorrow. I said the transition is Happening now and according to THEIR plan.
Toyota just announced that 30% of their production in 2030 will be EV which means 70% will still be ICE. Ferrari, Porsche are small manufacturers.
Not necessarily, there could be one of two percent hydrogen fuel cells cars lol
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      12-15-2021, 06:38 AM   #175
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Toyota just announced that 30% of their production in 2030 will be EV which means 70% will still be ICE. Ferrari, Porsche are small manufacturers.
Actually, President Toyoda made clear that, while Toyota will be investing $70B in non-gasoline technologies (which is obviously a lot of money), they are hedging their bets by also developing fuel-cell (hydrogen) and plug-in hybrid platforms:

Quote:
We are living in a diversified world and in an era in which it is hard to predict the future. Therefore, it is difficult to make everyone happy with a one-size-fits-all option.

That is why Toyota wants to prepare as many options as possible for our customers around the world.
I think that sums it up well.
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      12-15-2021, 06:52 AM   #176
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How is EV going to power tractor trailers? Jet planes? Winnebagos? Farm tractors? Just to name a few.
One word, Hamsters.
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