[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

My best friend was looking to replace his wife's Range Rover with a Porsche Cayenne but the dealer didn't have the one she wanted to test drive.

In the meantime, they drove the Taycan. In his words, "it felt like my skin was being peeled off of my face", that's how fast the acceleration was apparently - not to mention the supreme build quality (but I guess I just mentioned it lol)

In my case, I just can't say no to the CSL even though it doesn't make any sense as I will never take it to the track and will probably drive it 500 miles a year. If EV invasion is more rapid than many think, then I suppose it's safe to assume it will be the last of its kind given CSLs come once every 15 or 20 years. On that basis, I'll have to have one for one last hurrah.

But, I will be looking into the EV side of things with a bit of vigour come 2024 (assuming my CSL will be here early to mid-2023)

The taycan is an engineering marvel. I’m so impressed with that car. It lacks top end but everything else is perfection. I happen to like the way that looks over the plaid.

But really nothing beats a plaid.

[jp1984]

Originally Posted by NightWriter

In 50 years, manually-driven ICE cars will likely be relegated to rural areas and race tracks... kind of like horses today.

Thank god, I should be dead by then.

(
take out the "repost" and just imagine me beating the deadhorse with a cam shaft instead.

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

No thanks. Out of warranty bmw making that much power? Lol

Not a chance. At that point I’d get a plaid and run with another plaid lol

Ahhhhhhh, that's no fun:-)

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Chicane_

I understand CSL deliveries start next summer. Hopefully we'll receive them before 2023.

I'm told, all Australia-destined CSLs will be manufactured prior to October 2022. All US cars begin production after October 2022.

Knowing my M2 CS build completed on 16 Oct 2020 and I didn't receive it here until 18 Mar 2021, it's likely I won't get the CSL till March 2023.

At least I'll be getting the 50th anniversary tri-colour roundels; nevermind the car itself

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

Ahhhhhhh, that's no fun:-)

Going fast is always fun

[Chicane_]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

I'm told, all Australia-destined CSLs will be manufactured prior to October 2022. All US cars begin production after October 2022.

Knowing my M2 CS build completed on 16 Oct 2020 and I didn't receive it here until 18 Mar 2021, it's likely I won't get the CSL till March 2023.

At least I'll be getting the 50th anniversary tri-colour roundels; nevermind the car itself

Sounds like a similar timeline with the M5 CS where US cars are prioritized in the second half of the run. I'm in Canada and my car was a June build so I expect Canadian CSL's will also arrive in the first half of the build cycle.

[SatinblkF90]

So I guess there is no talk/chance of synthetic fuel (apparently Porsche is involved in this?) being made to keep ICE around along side EV?

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by SatinblkF90

So I guess there is no talk/chance of synthetic fuel (apparently Porsche is involved in this?) being made to keep ICE around along side EV?

It probably can help but it won't save the inevitable.

A couple of factors:

-cost
-availability
-interest

How much would it be in relation to how often can you obtain it? What about the reward factor? E85 is actually "safe" for the environment yet can make BIG BIG power but most car enthusiasts refuse this route because there not readily available. Meaning one would probably have to drive 30 miles to find a gas station that even offers E85. This will be the future when the nearest gas station will be farther than usual, thus consumers switching to EV inevitably.

As far as interest, i touched on that with the above comment. If someone is really sworn to keep their ICE alive, what measures will they take to do so? Will they wait for this synthetic fuel to become readily available as easy as it is to find gas today? What about the cost? There will come to a point where the consumer will find that it will take too much effort and time to invest in that portion of the hobby that the interest will fade over time.

I am speculating but we just have to accept that this is the end. There is still time but theoretically, this is the end.

[MTM3]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Very true but only for the United States and only for now. Do you realize that we have a good percentage of our own citizens in the United States and majority of people in Europe that are all for forcing people, you know like holding them down, while someone injects a vaccine into them. So I’m prepared for anything in the future but for right now I agree with you on this point. In the United States I mean.

I want you to know the only reason why I’ve seemed a bit aggravated with you on this subject is because you are so nonchalant about it. When you and I both know the truth is the only reason why EV’s have made this much progress is because its been forced on us by government(s). I guess I’m a bit disappointed that you’re perfectly fine with that. Especially since you own and appreciate gas guzzling sports cars. Your whole attitude just confuses me. Especially since you’ve taken it past being nonchalant and are more really in the enthusiastic column. That’s all.

Very well said. Bravo 👏
Not even sure why some of the EV closets are in this forum.
It’s like having a microwave owner hanging out in BBQ grill forums and rain on peoples parade. “Fuck your Hickory smoke chips! I have 900w appliance”

Put your head in your microwave and turn it on FFS

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

It probably can help but it won't save the inevitable.

A couple of factors:

-cost
-availability
-interest

How much would it be in relation to how often can you obtain it? What about the reward factor? E85 is actually "safe" for the environment yet can make BIG BIG power but most car enthusiasts refuse this route because there not readily available. Meaning one would probably have to drive 30 miles to find a gas station that even offers E85. This will be the future when the nearest gas station will be farther than usual, thus consumers switching to EV inevitably.

As far as interest, i touched on that with the above comment. If someone is really sworn to keep their ICE alive, what measures will they take to do so? Will they wait for this synthetic fuel to become readily available as easy as it is to find gas today? What about the cost? There will come to a point where the consumer will find that it will take too much effort and time to invest in that portion of the hobby that the interest will fade over time.

I am speculating but we just have to accept that this is the end. There is still time but theoretically, this is the end.

Running E-85 is great!!! Producing it is horrible for said environment. Again, I'm in the oil industry so I'm good with all that. Just saying

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

Running E-85 is great!!! Producing it is horrible for said environment. Again, I'm in the oil industry so I'm good with all that. Just saying

My friend runs E85. It's great. Makes insane power.

Unfortunately there's not many stations with that. He's keeping the car and getting a plaid

Everyone i know are trying to get plaids now haha.

I won't lie, i inquired. But the wait time is the same as trying to get a C8Z LOL

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by MTM3

Very well said. Bravo ��
Not even sure why some of the EV closets are in this forum.
It’s like having a microwave owner hanging out in BBQ grill forums and rain on peoples parade. “Fuck your Hickory smoke chips! I have 900w appliance”

Put your head in your microwave and turn it on FFS

Hold on, wait, is there a debate regarding microwaves vs. BBQ grills that I'm unaware of??? Most of us don't have both?

And someone can't have an EV and an ICE vehicle? Can't some people just be car enthusiasts? I have a few really good friends who have a stable of cars, and they each have an EV...because they just like cars, modern and vintage. Hec, one of them has a Lucid Air arriving in the next few months, the Launch Edition. I can't wait to ride in it.

Again, I'm an ICE guy, but I do see the benefits of efficiency and speed with EVs. Hec, for anyone chasing the best 0 to 60 times, EVs deserve some serious attention. And it's just a matter of time for the battery technology to get lighter and lighter. And with less battery density, coupled with all this power, the warp speed that we all love from our turbo-charged ICE engines will be cut in half. 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds will likely be normal in the next 5 to 10 years. So then we need braking technology to catch up to all this speed.

Even though I likely will never sell my 2013 M3 with the V8 because I love it so much (but it drinks gas like an alcoholic), I'm starting to see the benefits of EVs, especially since I know engineers will soon be piping in the sounds of the best ICE engines to appease us. I'm looking forward to seeing what engineers will come up with.

Truth be told, I was never a fan of turbo charged engines for years, because I didn't like the way they sounded compared to natural aspiration. Hec, I thought small turbo-charged engines were "appliances", sacrificing emotion and feel for pure speed and efficiency (BORING!). Again, I resisted for years, but then I evolved. I leased an F82, and now have an G82. And since I'm still not terribly moved by the sound of either (especially the F82), I enjoy other elements of the car (the speed, the precision, the technology, etc.)

I believe I'll do the same with EVs, I'll evolve. And once that 2025 Nissan Leaf owner leaves your ICE M3 in its wake with so much instant torque, most will convert, eventually.

"Science and technology revolutionize our lives, but memory, tradition and myth frame our response." - Arthur Schlesinger

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

Hold on, wait, is there a debate regarding microwaves vs. BBQ grills that I'm unaware of??? Most of us don't have both?

And someone can't have an EV and an ICE vehicle? Can't some people just be car enthusiasts? I have a few really good friends who have a stable of cars, and they each have an EV...because they just like cars, modern and vintage. Hec, one of them has a Lucid Air arriving in the next few months, the Launch Edition. I can't wait to ride in it.

Again, I'm an ICE guy, but I do see the benefits of efficiency and speed with EVs. Hec, for anyone chasing the best 0 to 60 times, EVs deserve some serious attention. And it's just a matter of time for the battery technology to get lighter and lighter. And with less battery density, coupled with all this power, the warp speed that we all love from our turbo-charged ICE engines will be cut in half. 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds will likely be normal in the next 5 to 10 years. So then we need braking technology to catch up to all this speed.

Even though I likely will never sell my 2013 M3 with the V8 because I love it so much (but it drinks gas like an alcoholic), I'm starting to see the benefits of EVs, especially since I know engineers will soon be piping in the sounds of the best ICE engines to appease us. I'm looking forward to seeing what engineers will come up with.

Truth be told, I was never a fan of turbo charged engines for years, because I didn't like the way they sounded compared to natural aspiration. Hec, I thought small turbo-charged engines were "appliances", sacrificing emotion and feel for pure speed and efficiency (BORING!). Again, I resisted for years, but then I evolved. I leased an F82, and now have an G82. And since I'm still not terribly moved by the sound of either (especially the F82), I enjoy other elements of the car (the speed, the precision, the technology, etc.)

I believe I'll do the same with EVs, I'll evolve. And once that 2025 Nissan Leaf owner leaves your ICE M3 in its wake with so much instant torque, most will convert, eventually.

"Science and technology revolutionize our lives, but memory, tradition and myth frame our response." - Arthur Schlesinger

I wish i can give you all my rep points to you.

Finally someone with a clear mind on the future.

We can certainly be CAR ENTHUSIASTS by having an EV and ICE.

[MTM3]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

Hold on, wait, is there a debate regarding microwaves vs. BBQ grills that I'm unaware of??? Most of us don't have both?

And someone can't have an EV and an ICE vehicle? Can't some people just be car enthusiasts? I have a few really good friends who have a stable of cars, and they each have an EV...because they just like cars, modern and vintage. Hec, one of them has a Lucid Air arriving in the next few months, the Launch Edition. I can't wait to ride in it.

Again, I'm an ICE guy, but I do see the benefits of efficiency and speed with EVs. Hec, for anyone chasing the best 0 to 60 times, EVs deserve some serious attention. And it's just a matter of time for the battery technology to get lighter and lighter. And with less battery density, coupled with all this power, the warp speed that we all love from our turbo-charged ICE engines will be cut in half. 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds will likely be normal in the next 5 to 10 years. So then we need braking technology to catch up to all this speed.

Even though I likely will never sell my 2013 M3 with the V8 because I love it so much (but it drinks gas like an alcoholic), I'm starting to see the benefits of EVs, especially since I know engineers will soon be piping in the sounds of the best ICE engines to appease us. I'm looking forward to seeing what engineers will come up with.

Truth be told, I was never a fan of turbo charged engines for years, because I didn't like the way they sounded compared to natural aspiration. Hec, I thought small turbo-charged engines were "appliances", sacrificing emotion and feel for pure speed and efficiency (BORING!). Again, I resisted for years, but then I evolved. I leased an F82, and now have an G82. And since I'm still not terribly moved by the sound of either (especially the F82), I enjoy other elements of the car (the speed, the precision, the technology, etc.)

I believe I'll do the same with EVs, I'll evolve. And once that 2025 Nissan Leaf owner leaves your ICE M3 in its wake with so much instant torque, most will convert, eventually.

"Science and technology revolutionize our lives, but memory, tradition and myth frame our response." - Arthur Schlesinger

I don’t see microwave owners coming to BBQ grill forums and telling them how grills are over and no matter what you do it’s faster to cook in a microwave.
ICE M3 is passion hobby emotion. EV is an appliance. If you don’t get it that’s fine

[BMWRacer523]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

And someone can't have an EV and an ICE vehicle? Can't some people just be car enthusiasts? I have a few really good friends who have a stable of cars, and they each have an EV...because they just like cars, modern and vintage. Hec, one of them has a Lucid Air arriving in the next few months, the Launch Edition. I can't wait to ride in it.

Again, I'm an ICE guy, but I do see the benefits of efficiency and speed with EVs. Hec, for anyone chasing the best 0 to 60 times, EVs deserve some serious attention. And it's just a matter of time for the battery technology to get lighter and lighter. And with less battery density, coupled with all this power, the warp speed that we all love from our turbo-charged ICE engines will be cut in half. 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds will likely be normal in the next 5 to 10 years. So then we need braking technology to catch up to all this speed.

[/COLOR]

Agree. I love ICE, but I also could like an EV that gives me the same driving pleasure. I do not like the Tesla design at all but Taycan or e-tron GT yes pls. This whole debate of ICE vs EV is not only moot (EV is coming whether we like it or not) but also just silly. Enjoy both while you can. I'm with you @bgm-m3comp next car I am buying will be an EV. Probably not a Tesla though. I put a deposit down on a Lucid but not 100% convinced I really like it yet. Would like to drive one.

[Chicane_]

Originally Posted by MTM3

I don’t see microwave owners coming to BBQ grill forums and telling them how grills are over and no matter what you do it’s faster to cook in a microwave.
ICE M3 is passion hobby emotion. EV is an appliance. If you don’t get it that’s fine

I think what's happening is that definition of car enthusiast is changing. The traditional qualities of driver engagement, sound and smell are going away and being replaced with a level of acceleration that simply dominates the overall driving experience. Young people will be fine with it, especially if they look like space ships and have an advanced user interface. Old timers like myself (I'm 49) are generally not embracing EVs as enthusiastically because the main attributes we love about cars and driving are being taken away by forces that are not market driven.

[BMWRacer523]

Originally Posted by Chicane_

I think what's happening is that definition of car enthusiast is changing. The traditional qualities of driver engagement, sound and smell are going away and being replaced with a level of acceleration that simply dominates the overall driving experience. Young people will be fine with it, especially if they look like space ships and have an advanced user interface. Old timers like myself (I'm 49) are generally not embracing EVs as enthusiastically because the main attributes we love about cars and driving are being taken away by forces that are not market driven.

yeah well manufacturers will cater to the next market. Not Gen-X (I am one as well). we have to accept reality.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by BMWRacer523

Agree. I love ICE, but I also could like an EV that gives me the same driving pleasure. I do not like the Tesla design at all but Taycan or e-tron GT yes pls. This whole debate of ICE vs EV is not only moot (EV is coming whether we like it or not) but also just silly. Enjoy both while you can. I'm with you @bgm-m3comp next car I am buying will be an EV. Probably not a Tesla though. I put a deposit down on a Lucid but not 100% convinced I really like it yet. Would like to drive one.

A car enthusiast is someone who loves and cherishes CARS.

It's really mind boggling how some people here want to butcher the definition of it just because it doesn't meet with their interests and likes. So now all of a sudden we're not car enthusiasts anymore LOL.

Jay leno, probably one of the BIGGEST car nut there is, even said he loves his EV's, he has a couple of his own. And he even parroted what i said in one of the threads here. He said in order to keep or prolong your ICE car, get an EV. I forgot the exact words but he said something along those lines. He said introducing EV's into the world will actually help keep the ICE cars on the road. I think it was the tesla plaid video where he talks about that.

I happen to like tesla. 3 of my friends have model 3's. All of the same year except 1. One of them have issues with panel gaps, rattles and screen glitches. The other has paint issues, some minor brake issues. The other has ZERO issues. Solid. Tight. No rattles. No glitches. And it's quick as fuck. Can literally take almost any car he encounters from 0-90ish.

[Chicane_]

Originally Posted by BMWRacer523

yeah well manufacturers will cater to the next market. Not Gen-X (I am one as well). we have to accept reality.

Of course they will. Nobody honestly believes it isn't happening - that's very obvious to everyone. The speed at which EVs will take over all segments and all markets is an open question which nobody can answer conclusively.

[Chicane_]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

A car enthusiast is someone who loves and cherishes CARS.

It's really mind boggling how some people here want to butcher the definition of it just because it doesn't meet with their interests and likes. So now all of a sudden we're not car enthusiasts anymore LOL.

Jay leno, probably one of the BIGGEST car nut there is, even said he loves his EV's, he has a couple of his own. And he even parroted what i said in one of the threads here. He said in order to keep or prolong your ICE car, get an EV. I forgot the exact words but he said something along those lines. He said introducing EV's into the world will actually help keep the ICE cars on the road. I think it was the tesla plaid video where he talks about that.

I happen to like tesla. 3 of my friends have model 3's. All of the same year except 1. One of them have issues with panel gaps, rattles and screen glitches. The other has paint issues, some minor brake issues. The other has ZERO issues. Solid. Tight. No rattles. No glitches. And it's quick as fuck. Can literally take almost any car he encounters from 0-90ish.

We can agree to disagree agreeably

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Chicane_

I think what's happening is that definition of car enthusiast is changing. The traditional qualities of driver engagement, sound and smell are going away and being replaced with a level of acceleration that simply dominates the overall driving experience. Young people will be fine with it, especially if they look like space ships and have an advanced user interface. Old timers like myself (I'm 49) are generally not embracing EVs as enthusiastically because the main attributes we love about cars and driving are being taken away by forces that are not market driven.

Does this mean "PetrolHead" becomes "ElectroHead" with the transition from ICE to EV?

[Chicane_]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Does this mean "PetrolHead" becomes "ElectroHead" with the transition from ICE to EV?

Haha something like that. I think EVs are far enough removed from traditional vehicles that their enthusiasts deserve their own group name.

Go team petrolhead!