[m4ml]

Originally Posted by JoshuaevansF87

I’m assuming it needs to be paired with catless down pipes. I asked bmw and they wasn’t sure they also said that can void it cause it carbahn doesn’t state that catless dps need to be paired with it. can someone confirm?

On the Stage 2 page:

Emissions Legality:

Let us address the topic of removing the catalyst, commonly achieved through the utilization of downpipes. Our rigorous testing regimen involved conducting consecutive dyno runs with and without the catalyst, and the observed power gain was significantly smaller than commonly touted, typically around 11 HP. Nevertheless, it is important to acknowledge our shared responsibility towards environmental preservation, as clean air is vital to our well-being. Furthermore, obtaining the necessary emissions certifications without a catalyst is a daunting task and, from a legal standpoint, it is considered an infringement.

[JoshuaevansF87]

Originally Posted by m4ml

On the Stage 2 page:

Emissions Legality:

Let us address the topic of removing the catalyst, commonly achieved through the utilization of downpipes. Our rigorous testing regimen involved conducting consecutive dyno runs with and without the catalyst, and the observed power gain was significantly smaller than commonly touted, typically around 11 HP. Nevertheless, it is important to acknowledge our shared responsibility towards environmental preservation, as clean air is vital to our well-being. Furthermore, obtaining the necessary emissions certifications without a catalyst is a daunting task and, from a legal standpoint, it is considered an infringement.

I’m not concerned about Emissions lol my question is are catless downpipes necessary? I don’t see how they wouldn’t be, correct me if I’m wrong but wouldn’t the stock cat blow Due to all the power gains and heat?

[m4ml]

Originally Posted by JoshuaevansF87

I’m not concerned about Emissions lol my question is are catless downpipes necessary? I don’t see how they wouldn’t be, correct me if I’m wrong but wouldn’t the stock cat blow Due to all the power gains and heat?

I guess my point is, on the Stage 2 page they're literally telling you to not do catless downpipes because it's not worth it. If they're necessary, then this would be counter-intuitive. And if it affects the warranty after they're telling you that they're not worth it on the page that they sell it on, I would think that would be problematic.

But, you can always call them and ask. Every time I've called them, someone very knowledgeable has answered the phone.

[WeekendWarriorz]

Originally Posted by 50shadesofhockenheim

I think it's funny they're using Femto

How has no one, besides this one guy in the world, figured out how to do an unlock on these DMEs?

My theory: FEMTO either has inside ties to BMW or Bosch where the company themselves gave/showed him how to crack the software and I’m sure they receive a small penny from his services.

OR my other guess which is more likely: FEMTO probably knows/knew someone at BMW/Bosch who sold him some of the coding needed to unlock the ecus.

For all we know he could be a Bosch employee who does this as a side hustle or a close friend of one.

Tuned plenty of cars in the past on BMW Bosch ecu’s and other platforms and the idea that one person in the world magically has the tables/discovered it on their own is a slim chance close to 0. They would likely license it out by now and sit back/collect a paycheck if they did without inside help.

[BTC Maxi]

This is very intriguing 👀 I wonder if they will release any 1/4’s, 60-130 times etc. Seems like their dyno reads pretty high though, doubt a stock G80 is pushing 510 wheel. Has anyone had any experience making a warranty claim with one of the tuner brands?

[BenJ]

Originally Posted by BTC Maxi

This is very intriguing 👀 I wonder if they will release any 1/4’s, 60-130 times etc. Seems like their dyno reads pretty high though, doubt a stock G80 is pushing 510 wheel. Has anyone had any experience making a warranty claim with one of the tuner brands?

Thing is to just look at the delta.

[danniexi]

are people not familiar with Steve Dinan? basically, if BMW denies warranty work on the drivetrain due to the tune, Carbahn will pick up the tab.

Originally Posted by JoshuaevansF87

I’m not concerned about Emissions lol my question is are catless downpipes necessary? I don’t see how they wouldn’t be, correct me if I’m wrong but wouldn’t the stock cat blow Due to all the power gains and heat?

Steve Dinan (and therefore CarBahn) are anti catless downpipes. They'll never condone the usage of them.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by BTC Maxi

This is very intriguing 👀 I wonder if they will release any 1/4’s, 60-130 times etc. Seems like their dyno reads pretty high though, doubt a stock G80 is pushing 510 wheel. Has anyone had any experience making a warranty claim with one of the tuner brands?

This is what they should do!! F the Dyno numbers!!!!! Run the 1/4 or better yet, get the 60-130 numbers. Only way to truly tell what you got

[Draper]

I’m seriously considering this.

The BMW dealer 3 miles from my house is also a Carbahn dealer, and waiting to hear back from them with more info on the process.

Maybe a little over $5K all in with the heat exchanger? Considering the Drivers Pack alone is $2500 (which I regret not ordering) that doesn’t seem too bad.

[BvB1909]

Originally Posted by Draper

I’m seriously considering this.

The BMW dealer 3 miles from my house is also a Carbahn dealer, and waiting to hear back from them with more info on the process.

Maybe a little over $5K all in with the heat exchanger? Considering the Drivers Pack alone is $2500 (which I regret not ordering) that doesn’t seem too bad.

Got quoted $6500 (pre tax) from my dealer who is a Carbahn dealer as well.

[Draper]

Originally Posted by BvB1909

Got quoted $6500 (pre tax) from my dealer who is a Carbahn dealer as well.

Good to know.

Did they give you any sort of breakdown?

Were they charging labor for the tune, or just the heat exchanger install?

[Badmoonrising]

Looks like they dropped in the Stage 1 manual flash. They're claiming basically 100whp/wtq gain for stage 1. Can the stock clutch handle an additional 100wtq?

https://carbahn.com/product/cbs58-03...nual-rwd-2021/

[Rux]

Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz

My theory: FEMTO either has inside ties to BMW or Bosch where the company themselves gave/showed him how to crack the software and I’m sure they receive a small penny from his services.

OR my other guess which is more likely: FEMTO probably knows/knew someone at BMW/Bosch who sold him some of the coding needed to unlock the ecus.

For all we know he could be a Bosch employee who does this as a side hustle or a close friend of one.

Tuned plenty of cars in the past on BMW Bosch ecu’s and other platforms and the idea that one person in the world magically has the tables/discovered it on their own is a slim chance close to 0. They would likely license it out by now and sit back/collect a paycheck if they did without inside help.

Bosch is on a maintenance contract with BMW to plug these found back doors and side channels for 5 years. So what you are saying makes sense. No one has or can break the encryption so it has to be from the inside.


When I saw Carguys video on the process i was in disbelief. Regardless of who they use I had thought the Dinan dealer installed tune days were over.

So with this , some other bolt ons, I can have a monster for under 100k that I can 4 season daily? GOD DAMN it’s a good time to be alive with money to burn on virtual penis extending toys!!


https://youtu.be/nC7wUomz0vA

[GrannyShiftG80]

Originally Posted by Badmoonrising

Looks like they dropped in the Stage 1 manual flash. They're claiming basically 100whp/wtq gain for stage 1. Can the stock clutch handle an additional 100wtq?

https://carbahn.com/product/cbs58-03...nual-rwd-2021/

Yes

[BvB1909]

Originally Posted by Draper

Good to know.

Did they give you any sort of breakdown?

Were they charging labor for the tune, or just the heat exchanger install?

Heat exchanger with install (with current sale price) is $2,370.
Tune is $2,730 installed.
$1,475 to unlock for the dme with remote start.

So $6,575 for everything installed including warranty (dinan factory warranty match).

My only hesitation is not being able to do any future software updates without losing the tune.

[Draper]

Originally Posted by BvB1909

My only hesitation is not being able to do any future software updates without losing the tune.

I wonder how they would handle this. Are we certain an OTA update would overwrite a tune? I believe it removes coding, but not sure what else.

[BvB1909]

Originally Posted by Draper

I wonder how they would handle this. Are we certain an OTA update would overwrite a tune? I believe it removes coding, but not sure what else.

Yeah the parts/performance guy specifically said that I’d have to turn off the automatic OTA updates because they would wipe the tune and I’d have basically redo the tune until dealers are allowed to unlock the DME themselves.

[Zanardi43]

Originally Posted by BvB1909

Yeah the parts/performance guy specifically said that I’d have to turn off the automatic OTA updates because they would wipe the tune and I’d have basically redo the tune until dealers are allowed to unlock the DME themselves.

My Service Mgr actually said the opposite when I asked…OTA updates will not override the Carbahn tune…but that any dealer installed updates that involve the OBD port are to be avoided, as they would require a tune reflash.

[BvB1909]

Originally Posted by Zanardi43

My Service Mgr actually said the opposite when I asked…OTA updates will not override the Carbahn tune…but that any dealer installed updates that involve the OBD port are to be avoided, as they would require a tune reflash.

Hmm I’ll have to follow up with my guy and see if maybe he was mistaken. I’m new to the M3 world, how frequent are dealer installed updates? I don’t want to lose out on any important future updates but have no idea if those really come out much.

[femtoevo]

Originally Posted by Zanardi43

My Service Mgr actually said the opposite when I asked…OTA updates will not override the Carbahn tune…but that any dealer installed updates that involve the OBD port are to be avoided, as they would require a tune reflash.

It looks like your service mgr needs to re-read the technical training documents, because an OTA update can update ANY ECU in the car, including the engine's one.

[GP_with_the_M3]

This is impressive stuff. Carbanh is smart for offering a warranty at additional cost. They probably know how strong the S58 is, and realize it won’t have many failures.

I wonder how much, if any, additional power is on the table with this stage 2 setup, when paired with some front mount intakes & free flowing downpipes.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by GP_with_the_M3

This is impressive stuff. Carbanh is brilliant for offering a warranty at additional cost. They probably know how strong the S58 is, and realize it won’t have many failures.

I wonder how much, if any, additional power is on the table with this stage 2 setup, when paired with some front mount intakes & free flowing downpipes.

Dinan has followed this policy for a long time. It's an excellent marketing strategy and offers reassurance to customers with major concerns.

It is a niche market, but undoubtedly, a very profitable one.