[recentrisk2]

I got hit with this email.... "company policy is now to max out the MF to .00151"

My deal was negotiated at the base MF rate of .0111. Has anyone been hit with this?

[gohawks23]

Well that base rate just started in Nov. You could have locked in a lower prior base rate too with credit submission. Also should have got base rate notated in writing. Looks like worse case scenario happened to you because you didn't do these. Can just walk but somebody else will pay.

[vj123]

Originally Posted by recentrisk2

I got hit with this email.... "company policy is now to max out the MF to .00151"

My deal was negotiated at the base MF rate of .0111. Has anyone been hit with this?

There are several threads where people reported dealership bumping up apr.

Was the negotiated deal written in a paper with credit approved by BMW.

[Gfit]

Complete BS by greedy dealer. Bait and switch. Whatever their "policy" is now is for new customers. Talk to GM for sure.

[BRAKE!]

Yeah it seems like ethics is a non-existent thing at a lot of dealerships (maybe it’s reflective of the type of people who go into this business?? maybe dealership have low margins??) either way, I’m sorry this is happening to you. Feels like they had a plan all along - a coy tactic to get you emotionally hooked and when you’re neck deep in it, they take advantage of it to get what they wanted all along. Quite a distasteful backhand way of negotiation.

Anyway, I guess the question you have left is whether to take the car or not. Just make your case, see if they budge, and if they don’t, try not to take it personally as they probably do this to every person leasing a desirable car.

[Barathon]

Number 1 rule about buying a car is be willing to walk away. As painful as it is with the shit that we have had to deal with when getting these cars, you still have to protect yourself.

If a greedy/slimeball dealership is going to try and change your agreed upon rates after your waiting this long then screw them. Don't even both with the GM, go straight to the top. Find out who the owner of the dealership is, get his/her e-mail and send them an e-mail explaining the situation, that both parties agreed to the MF and now after waiting for the car to arrive that they are trying to get greedy and change the deal. Let him/her know that you will only be paying for the previously agreed upon MF or you will be walking away. And if you have to walk away, you'll be sure to let all of the friends/family and other BMW enthusiasts know that their dealership cannot be trusted to honor their agreements.

When a dealership try to pull the okey doke and screw me them they have lost all of my respect and I have no issues with going nuclear in response. Owner, GM, Sales Manager.. put them all on blast, be willing to make a scene. Hell go stand outside their dealership for a few hours/days with a sign saying that they can't be trusted.

Bottom line, we as consumers cannot tolerate when dealerships try to take advantage of this messed up market. They need to know that they will suffer long term when things go back to normal and they drove off all of their business.

This isn't just a typical negotiation aspect where you go back and forth on numbers and play a little hardball, this is them agreeing to something, making you wait the months for the car to arrive and then changing the deal to screw you. Unacceptable.

[gohawks23]

Originally Posted by Gfit

Complete BS by greedy dealer. Bait and switch. Whatever their "policy" is now is for new customers. Talk to GM for sure.

Well, it is a business trying to maximize the money they can make. Most people don't have loyalty to car dealerships, at least on sales side. This is why people should really know the buying/leasing process and get everything in writing. Live and learn for the next time.

[Gfit]

Post the name of the dealership to help out others

[gohawks23]

Originally Posted by Barathon

Number 1 rule about buying a car is be willing to walk away. As painful as it is with the shit that we have had to deal with when getting these cars, you still have to protect yourself.

If a greedy/slimeball dealership is going to try and change your agreed upon rates after your waiting this long then screw them. Don't even both with the GM, go straight to the top. Find out who the owner of the dealership is, get his/her e-mail and send them an e-mail explaining the situation, that both parties agreed to the MF and now after waiting for the car to arrive that they are trying to get greedy and change the deal. Let him/her know that you will only be paying for the previously agreed upon MF or you will be walking away. And if you have to walk away, you'll be sure to let all of the friends/family and other BMW enthusiasts know that their dealership cannot be trusted to honor their agreements.

When a dealership try to pull the okey doke and screw me them they have lost all of my respect and I have no issues with going nuclear in response. Owner, GM, Sales Manager.. put them all on blast, be willing to make a scene. Hell go stand outside their dealership for a few hours/days with a sign saying that they can't be trusted.

Bottom line, we as consumers cannot tolerate when dealerships try to take advantage of this messed up market. They need to know that they will suffer long term when things go back to normal and they drove off all of their business.

This isn't just a typical negotiation aspect where you go back and forth on numbers and play a little hardball, this is them agreeing to something, making you wait the months for the car to arrive and then changing the deal to screw you. Unacceptable.

LOL, sorry, if people don't know to take care of THEMSELVES and get a signed PO indicating price/financing terms when negotiating order the blame is on THEM for 'trusting' any car dealership. Dealerships are in business to MAKE money. PS, every business these days are raising prices/rates/etc. And, oh yeah, wages are going up too.

[gohawks23]

Originally Posted by Gfit

Post the name of the dealership to help out others

That won't matter due to limited visibility of this site but what would carry more weight would be the threat of a bad experience rating on Yelp, dealer Facebook site or similar calling out salesperson name, etc.

If I had messed up and not covered my bases while ordering this is what I'd tell GM I'd be doing if they didn't make me happy.

[Barathon]

Oh to clarify that a little but not go too far off subject.

I had an issue where a dealership said they had an allocation for the next month and needed to take my current car in as an early trade in. I ended up giving them 2 cars as trades (long story) but they had lied and could not get an allocation and just kept lying for months.

I had to switch dealerships, and go with someone out of state that really had an allocation. The problem with switching is that the value of my 2 trade-ins was $91,000 which means the tax credit from those trades was ~$6,500.

Because the dealership A) Lied about having an allocation B) Lied again that they had one each month the following 2 months) C) Lied that they would work hard to trade an M5 CS allocation they did have for an M3 allocation and several other lies, I was pretty upset.

I looked at what they had priced my 2 trades and they were going to make about $8K off of them, meanwhile I was losing $6,500 in tax credit by going with someone that actually had an allocation.

I found the Owner's E-mail, explained everything in detail and give my desired outcome. I said that I wanted them to give me another $3,000 for my trade-in to split the tax credit loss because they had lied so much. I said this would still leave them with a profit after all was said and done.

I then went into the dealership to talk to said owner, he was out but ended up working with the GM instead. I got the $3,000 that I requested.

I was very polite, respectful and did not make a scene however, if they would have said no I was prepared to escalate my response by going that other route. Luckily I didn't have to.

I think that if you take that approach, you will usually get the result you want. But you do have to be willing to walk if they don't budge.

#1 Stay calm, cool and respectful, have all the facts but go to the big dog.
#2 If still getting bad answer be willing to make a scene when others are around. They don't want that drama for anything
#3 Go full stupid lol stand outside on a public curb with a sign saying stay away.

I have never had to got to #2 or beyond but I've been prepared and could articulate enough for them to know that I wasn't going to take it up the rear, nor just disappear.

[Barathon]

Originally Posted by gohawks23

LOL, sorry, if people don't know to take care of THEMSELVES and get a signed PO indicating price/financing terms when negotiating order the blame is on THEM for 'trusting' any car dealership. Dealerships are in business to MAKE money. PS, every business these days are raising prices/rates/etc. And, oh yeah, wages are going up too.

I have bought 11 brand new cars in the past 20 years plus another 3 used ones in that time.

If I text my CA and lay out all of the numbers and they say yes, then I consider that enough in writing. Having them print off a piece of paper that says the same thing doesn't hold any more weight in a legal perspective than the text route.

No dealership is going to do the full on contract and paperwork for a car until it's in the store, that's the only time when things become legally binding. And they likely can't do that. I know that for BMWs (but it's probably the same for all makes) The cars are still owned by BMW until the leave the destination VPC (Baltimore etc) at which time the dealership is charged for the car and then it switches to the dealerships insurance etc. So they can't make a legally binding contract for a car that they don't even own/posses yet.

[gohawks23]

Originally Posted by Barathon

Oh to clarify that a little but not go too far off subject.

I had an issue where a dealership said they had an allocation for the next month and needed to take my current car in as an early trade in. I ended up giving them 2 cars as trades (long story) but they had lied and could not get an allocation and just kept lying for months.

I had to switch dealerships, and go with someone out of state that really had an allocation. The problem with switching is that the value of my 2 trade-ins was $91,000 which means the tax credit from those trades was ~$6,500.

Because the dealership A) Lied about having an allocation B) Lied again that they had one each month the following 2 months) C) Lied that they would work hard to trade an M5 CS allocation they did have for an M3 allocation and several other lies, I was pretty upset.

I looked at what they had priced my 2 trades and they were going to make about $8K off of them, meanwhile I was losing $6,500 in tax credit by going with someone that actually had an allocation.

I found the Owner's E-mail, explained everything in detail and give my desired outcome. I said that I wanted them to give me another $3,000 for my trade-in to split the tax credit loss because they had lied so much. I said this would still leave them with a profit after all was said and done.

I then went into the dealership to talk to said owner, he was out but ended up working with the GM instead. I got the $3,000 that I requested.

I was very polite, respectful and did not make a scene however, if they would have said no I was prepared to escalate my response by going that other route. Luckily I didn't have to.

I think that if you take that approach, you will usually get the result you want. But you do have to be willing to walk if they don't budge.

#1 Stay calm, cool and respectful, have all the facts but go to the big dog.
#2 If still getting bad answer be willing to make a scene when others are around. They don't want that drama for anything
#3 Go full stupid lol stand outside on a public curb with a sign saying stay away.

I have never had to got to #2 or beyond but I've been prepared and could articulate enough for them to know that I wasn't going to take it up the rear, nor just disappear.

Or, be smart and make sure dealer has a real allocation upfront and the next 10 paragraphs don't need to be written.

Buyer self education is KING!

[gohawks23]

Originally Posted by Barathon

I have bought 11 brand new cars in the past 20 years plus another 3 used ones in that time.

If I text my CA and lay out all of the numbers and they say yes, then I consider that enough in writing. Having them print off a piece of paper that says the same thing doesn't hold any more weight in a legal perspective than the text route.

No dealership is going to do the full on contract and paperwork for a car until it's in the store, that's the only time when things become legally binding. And they likely can't do that. I know that for BMWs (but it's probably the same for all makes) The cars are still owned by BMW until the leave the destination VPC (Baltimore etc) at which time the dealership is charged for the car and then it switches to the dealerships insurance etc. So they can't make a legally binding contract for a car that they don't even own/posses yet.

Dude, wrong, just wrong. I write price and terms on piece of paper and have GM sign along with me and that is legally binding.

[Barathon]

Originally Posted by gohawks23

Or, be smart and make sure dealer has a real allocation upfront and the next 10 paragraphs don't need to be written.

Buyer self education is KING!

Yes, you're right I got screwed. I knew how the process worked before had and still took a gamble based off of my assessment at the time of how trustworthy the CA/Asst Manager seemed. Bad on me, at that point in time it didn't seem like the situation was bad enough to warrant going way out of the local area.

But you're missing the point. A purchase order for a custom build agreeing to rates is not legally binding and they can still be POS greedy bastards and try to change it up on you the the car arrives.

Originally Posted by gohawks23

Dude, wrong, just wrong. I write price and terms on piece of paper and have GM sign along with me and that is legally binding.

I'd love to see you try to win that in court.

[gohawks23]

Originally Posted by Barathon

Yes, you're right I got screwed. I knew how the process worked before had and still took a gamble based off of my assessment at the time of how trustworthy the CA/Asst Manager seemed. Bad on me, at that point in time it didn't seem like the situation was bad enough to warrant going way out of the local area.

But you're missing the point. A purchase order for a custom build agreeing to rates is not legally binding and they can still be POS greedy bastards and try to change it up on you the the car arrives.



I'd love to see you try to win that in court.

I'm not missing the point...a written and binding contract can be constructed on a piece of paper with signatures. This is LAW 101.

It can be as simple as detailing the custom order (color, options, etc.) and specifying the agreed upon price and indicating locked base MF will be used with no markup when leasing or locked base interest if financing. I also indicate there will be no additional fees added outside of doc and govt fees.

[Barathon]

Originally Posted by gohawks23

Dude, wrong, just wrong. I write price and terms on piece of paper and have GM sign along with me and that is legally binding.

Originally Posted by gohawks23

I'm not missing the point...a written and binding contract can be constructed on a piece of paper with signatures. This is LAW 101.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

A purchase order and purchase agreement are different items. If you signed the full on purchase agreement with all of the contractual language etc on it then yes, that is legally binding.

But as I stated earlier, you don't do that until you are doing the final paperwork. That's why despite the fact that you have done purchase orders when you order a car you have to complete the actual contract when it arrives.

I'm not a lawyer but I'd bet money that any lawyer would say that a PO that just contained the agreed upon prices/rates for a car that does not exist yet is not legally binding.

[gohawks23]

Originally Posted by Barathon

We will just have to agree to disagree.

A purchase order and purchase agreement are different items. If you signed the full on purchase agreement with all of the contractual language etc on it then yes, that is legally binding.

But as I stated earlier, you don't do that until you are doing the final paperwork. That's why despite the fact that you have done purchase orders when you order a car you have to complete the actual contract when it arrives.

I'm not a lawyer but I'd bet money that any lawyer would say that a PO that just contained the agreed upon prices/rates for a car that does not exist yet is not legally binding.

Sorry, you are dead 100% wrong. Ask any real lawyer as I have.

PS, have never had to go to court as I have always had this signed piece of paper in regards to any car orders I have made (10+) and always take into finance with me. Never have had an issue but have seen some disappointed finance people. Makes things truly stress free. It will also protect in terms of your order having everything you specified on it.

[psylovibe]

This just happened to me also. Damn

[edofloat]

Originally Posted by recentrisk2

I got hit with this email.... "company policy is now to max out the MF to .00151"

My deal was negotiated at the base MF rate of .0111. Has anyone been hit with this?

Looks like the dealer is charging 40 basis points markup, I suspect they were doing the same thing at the previous rate. Money factors do change and if you locked the rate you would be good unless it expired. Doubt BMWFS would honor the old rate for you without a lock.

The rate they are wanting to charge versus buy rate is about $60 a month depending on the MSRP of the car, more if you are paying above MSRP. So that is a little over $2k. More than one way to get things done...if you were planning to buy in finance items like maintenance or or additional warranty perhaps you can get some discounts on those items to offset. If you don't ask you don't get.

[merlin3008]

Originally Posted by gohawks23

I'm not missing the point...a written and binding contract can be constructed on a piece of paper with signatures. This is LAW 101.

It can be as simple as detailing the custom order (color, options, etc.) and specifying the agreed upon price and indicating locked base MF will be used with no markup when leasing or locked base interest if financing. I also indicate there will be no additional fees added outside of doc and govt fees.

I agree with you 100%. A contract doesn't have to be a formal purchase agreement. There has to be an offer, acceptance, and consideration. It can be via text, email, or any form of verification. It can even be verbal, although difficult to verify. As long as the poster has the deal in writing, and gave a deposit which was accepted as consideration, there is a legal agreement/contract in place. The dealer is obligated under what is called "specific performance" to sell him the agreed upon car at the agreed upon price.

If I were the original poster, I would get a lawyer letter to the dealership Monday morning. Once the car is sold to someone else, they can no longer perform according to the contract. Then the question becomes - absent performance of the contract, what are the damages. That becomes really speculative.

[gohawks23]

Originally Posted by merlin3008

I agree with you 100%. A contract doesn't have to be a formal purchase agreement. There has to be an offer, acceptance, and consideration. It can be via text, email, or any form of verification. It can even be verbal, although difficult to verify. As long as the poster has the deal in writing, and gave a deposit which was accepted as consideration, there is a legal agreement/contract in place. The dealer is obligated under what is called "specific performance" to sell him the agreed upon car at the agreed upon price.

If I were the original poster, I would get a lawyer letter to the dealership Monday morning. Once the car is sold to someone else, they can no longer perform according to the contract. Then the question becomes - absent performance of the contract, what are the damages. That becomes really speculative.

Yep...very interesting point on the damages! I'm going to specify something in the next order pre-purchase agreement I do and see if they still sign...heck probably no dealer signing anything pre purchase these days...

PS, also amazing how many people will put an order $ deposit down and not put a contract into place. Ugh.