[kgelfen360]

Originally Posted by nu2M

I always get a good chuckle when people post their earnings on a public forum. Having said that, a $100K+ vehicle is pretty common these days if you live any where in or near an affluent neighborhood. What defines "affluent"? Top 8% earners? 5%? 3%? I can't tell you. Or spend money that you don't have and just go into debt. Isn't that the modern day 'merican dream?!

Yea it’s good point you bring up. It’s not even that expensive of a car. Higher end truck or an Escalade is same price or more. $90k for MSRP for a car is not that crazy these days. It’s on the high end for sedan but lots of cars are up there now. I actually think it’s pretty decent deal considering the performance you get and still daily use car, just not an SUV.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by kgelfen360

Yea it’s good point you bring up. It’s not even that expensive of a car. Higher end truck or an Escalade is same price or more. $90k for MSRP for a car is not that crazy these days. It’s on the high end for sedan but lots of cars are up there now. I actually think it’s pretty decent deal considering the performance you get and still daily use car, just not an SUV.

While true, that is irrelevant to the question of whether one can comfortably afford the car or not. Crazy times.

[kgelfen360]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

While true, that is irrelevant to the question of whether one can comfortably afford the car or not. Crazy times.

Yea for sure. Just maybe new reality or big bubble that’s going to burst. Time will tell.

[r0wr]

Originally Posted by DO444

These threads never die.
There is no 911 for $100k.
Anywhere. Maybe a 10yr old 911 with 50k mi, maybe.

That just isn't true man. You can get a pretty nice 991.2 T or even S (2017-2019) if you look hard enough for $100k.

Originally Posted by kgelfen360

Yea it’s good point you bring up. It’s not even that expensive of a car. Higher end truck or an Escalade is same price or more. $90k for MSRP for a car is not that crazy these days. It’s on the high end for sedan but lots of cars are up there now. I actually think it’s pretty decent deal considering the performance you get and still daily use car, just not an SUV.

Not sure if I agree with you on this. $90k is a lot of money any way you cut it. The average household income in America is less than $90k.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by r0wr

Not sure if I agree with you on this. $90k is a lot of money any way you cut it. The average household income in America is less than $90k.

Ok look hard then. You’ll be buying a used car and comparing it with a new car. Silly, but good luck.
Anyway.

The average new car in America is about $50k.

Am I saying any of this is good or right?
No.

Shit is fucked.
Just look around everything is fucked.
But, in terms of relative value compared against its competitors IN THIS FUCKED MARKET… I’d say the m3 is a veritable bargain.

I need a new pickup and I know that’s absolutely going to cost me $60k, minimum.

[slowturbo]

Originally Posted by mattssi

Thread devolved like expected

If I made 450k a year I would be out of the game so quick. No need for me to hoard cash - spend it before this world blows itself up.

Unfortunately it's not that simple. I remember when I was younger thinking if I made several hundred K id be in a lambo. Now, I spend 4k/mo on daycare alone for my two little ones...I still have an f80 because wife vetoed the g80 purchase :/

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by slowturbo

Unfortunately it's not that simple. I remember when I was younger thinking if I made several hundred K id be in a lambo. Now, I spend 4k/mo on daycare alone for my two little ones...I still have an f80 because wife vetoed the g80 purchase :/

Dude, you should be upgrading the wife first. Then do the car.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by slowturbo

Unfortunately it's not that simple. I remember when I was younger thinking if I made several hundred K id be in a lambo. Now, I spend 4k/mo on daycare alone for my two little ones...I still have an f80 because wife vetoed the g80 purchase :/

Exactly. Also instead of having strangers raise your kids, have your wife do it and pocket the 4k.

[Ankarah]

Well at least you guys ain’t like Blind dipshit snobs who make you feel like a trash if your TC is anything below 450k a year, like, ‘hey what is wrong with you for putting up with a job that pays less than half a mil a year?!’ 🤣

[Pool Shark]

Originally Posted by r0wr

I like this. It’s generally sound. To your point, if you have kids and other priorities, 3:1 may be low.

With that said, I’d be willing to bet most people on this forum are below this ratio, not above it.

It would seem that there are some ballers on this forum, but I'm not one of them unfortunately.

Having said that, it is true that the ratio is somewhat general when considering that there are many personal factors. But assuming that housing costs and other necessary debts/expenses were "within limits", this could apply (3:1 ratio).

Ideally, a financially sound approach would be if the ratio of annual income to car purchase was 4:1, but I don't think most people would believe that...life is too short, right? And I'm not sure many people making $100k/year would "enjoy" being limited to a $25-30k car. Just my $0.02.

[r0wr]

Originally Posted by Pool Shark

It would seem that there are some ballers on this forum, but I'm not one of them unfortunately.

Having said that, it is true that the ratio is somewhat general when considering that there are many personal factors. But assuming that housing costs and other necessary debts/expenses were "within limits", this could apply (3:1 ratio).

Ideally, a financially sound approach would be if the ratio of annual income to car purchase was 4:1, but I don't think most people would believe that...life is too short, right? And I'm not sure many people making $100k/year would "enjoy" being limited to a $25-30k car. Just my $0.02.

Spot on. But those who are making $100k/year and buying $100k cars are the ones who will work until they can't anymore. Once again, it is all situation dependent. If you're a trust fund kid making $100k a year, then who cares? But if you're just an average person and you make $100k/year, you SHOULD be buying cars in the $25-30k range if you wanted to be financially responsible.

The thought process that "life is too short" is a really bad mentality. It's not to say you shouldn't enjoy life and the money you make, but with the average life expectancy of 77 years, one should think carefully about buying luxury cars at such a young age even at $100k salary. The compounding on that money over the span of someone's life is a very, very powerful thing.

[Pool Shark]

Originally Posted by r0wr

Spot on. But those who are making $100k/year and buying $100k cars are the ones who will work until they can't anymore. Once again, it is all situation dependent. If you're a trust fund kid making $100k a year, then who cares? But if you're just an average person and you make $100k/year, you SHOULD be buying cars in the $25-30k range if you wanted to be financially responsible.

The thought process that "life is too short" is a really bad mentality. It's not to say you shouldn't enjoy life and the money you make, but with the average life expectancy of 77 years, one should think carefully about buying luxury cars at such a young age even at $100k salary. The compounding on that money over the span of someone's life is a very, very powerful thing.

Couldn't agree with you more! But we better stop this rant, otherwise we'll be kicked off for being too boring.

I can't wait for my ride to arrive later this year.

[Aalfred]

Originally Posted by r0wr

Spot on. But those who are making $100k/year and buying $100k cars are the ones who will work until they can't anymore. Once again, it is all situation dependent. If you're a trust fund kid making $100k a year, then who cares? But if you're just an average person and you make $100k/year, you SHOULD be buying cars in the $25-30k range if you wanted to be financially responsible.

The thought process that "life is too short" is a really bad mentality. It's not to say you shouldn't enjoy life and the money you make, but with the average life expectancy of 77 years, one should think carefully about buying luxury cars at such a young age even at $100k salary. The compounding on that money over the span of someone's life is a very, very powerful thing.

While you do have some valid points, but I wouldnt really brush off the "life is too short" argument and the instant gratification feeling. Say if you make 100K, your take home pay is 75K, that puts your monthly income at roughly $6000. If you live with parents and dont have any debt or minimal student loans, a $1500/month car payment is easily doable. The other factor is if you are making 100K in your 20's, you are expecting your pay to go up much more in your 30's. So your purchasing power is also going up and you can save more and put money in retirement and stocks etc when your income increases at a later date. I get the power of compounding interests, but when it comes to being young and impulsive, the rational thinking goes by the wayside esp when you know u can make it up more as you get older.

Now take a person making 300K in his 40's. His take home pay is about 200K with a monthly income of $17000 roughly. Now you factor in wife, kids, 2-3 car payments, house payments, 401K retirement contribution and student loan payments for 2 people, vacations etc, you prob are left with the same $4000-5000 a month expendable income at the end of it that u save and the more you make, the more your spending becomes to keep up the "life style" and the fact that you CAN afford these esp those $10-15K vacations, send your kids to private school etc that your money that is left at the end of it is prob the same as a 25 yr old making $100K. I dont think everyone does this but its just human nature that the more you make, the more you can afford things and the more you spend. So in the end, unless you start saving all that you make and cut back a lot on ur expenses and live like u are making 100K on a 300K income, we all make bad financial decisions (me included) but it is human nature. So everyone's financial goals and decisions are purely based on their needs and wants. Cest La Vie

[DO444]

Originally Posted by slowturbo

Unfortunately it's not that simple. I remember when I was younger thinking if I made several hundred K id be in a lambo. Now, I spend 4k/mo on daycare alone for my two little ones...I still have an f80 because wife vetoed the g80 purchase :/

Originally Posted by r0wr

Spot on. But those who are making $100k/year and buying $100k cars are the ones who will work until they can't anymore. Once again, it is all situation dependent. If you're a trust fund kid making $100k a year, then who cares? But if you're just an average person and you make $100k/year, you SHOULD be buying cars in the $25-30k range if you wanted to be financially responsible.

The thought process that "life is too short" is a really bad mentality. It's not to say you shouldn't enjoy life and the money you make, but with the average life expectancy of 77 years, one should think carefully about buying luxury cars at such a young age even at $100k salary. The compounding on that money over the span of someone's life is a very, very powerful thing.

A $100k salary is damn near the poverty line imo. I’m not kidding.

People have not caught up to the reality of inflation. $100k is the new $50k. I’m not trolling here.

That’s my reality. $100k is not a good salary anymore, imo. You can’t raise a family and have a nice life on $100k yr at 8% interest with an avg car price of $50k and home price of $400k.

Forget it.
It’s gonna hurt.

America is broken.

On the other hand, I have a ~$20k/mo salary and so feel guilty as shit paying $2k/mo for a car.

Maybe I’m broken.
I feel poor still. Maybe because I grew up on food stamps and was homeless for a time. I guess I can’t shake that depression era mindset, but I always feel poor.

Feeling poor and being poor are different however, and I’d rather feel poor than be poor. Strangely, I felt less poor when I was poor. I didn’t give a fck about money then and never thought about things I couldn’t afford.

Now I can afford things I can’t afford and I buy them and think about how I shouldn’t have.

If that made sense to you,
Then you must be as broken as I am.

[Aalfred]

Originally Posted by DO444

A $100k salary is damn near the poverty line imo. I’m not kidding.

People have not caught up to the reality of inflation. $100k is the new $50k. I’m not trolling here.

That’s my reality. $100k is not a good salary anymore, imo. You can’t raise a family and have a nice life on $100k yr at 8% interest with an avg car price of $50k and home price of $400k.

Forget it.
It’s gonna hurt.

America is broken.

On the other hand, I have a ~$20k/mo salary and so feel guilty as shit paying $2k/mo for a car.

Maybe I’m broken.
I feel poor still. Maybe because I grew up on food stamps and was homeless for a time. I guess I can’t shake that depression era mindset, but I always feel poor.

Feeling poor and being poor are different however, and I’d rather feel poor than be poor. Strangely, I felt less poor when I was poor. I didn’t give a fck about money then and never thought about things I couldn’t afford.

Now I can afford things I can’t afford and I buy them and think about how I shouldn’t have.

If that made sense to you,
Then you must be as broken as I am.

Thats the irony of it isnt it. When I made $12K a year as a research assistant and living as a student, even though I was poor, it didnt feel that way. Now we make much more and I think twice about paying so much for a car and house and feeling poor. Life was less simple when u didnt make that much. Granted family and kids make things more complicated but the old adage, the more you make, the more you end up spending still hold true. lol

[jmg]

Originally Posted by DO444

A $100k salary is damn near the poverty line imo. I’m not kidding.

People have not caught up to the reality of inflation. $100k is the new $50k. I’m not trolling here.

That’s my reality. $100k is not a good salary anymore, imo. You can’t raise a family and have a nice life on $100k yr at 8% interest with an avg car price of $50k and home price of $400k.

Forget it.
It’s gonna hurt.

America is broken.

On the other hand, I have a ~$20k/mo salary and so feel guilty as shit paying $2k/mo for a car.

Maybe I’m broken.
I feel poor still. Maybe because I grew up on food stamps and was homeless for a time. I guess I can’t shake that depression era mindset, but I always feel poor.

Feeling poor and being poor are different however, and I’d rather feel poor than be poor. Strangely, I felt less poor when I was poor. I didn’t give a fck about money then and never thought about things I couldn’t afford.

Now I can afford things I can’t afford and I buy them and think about how I shouldn’t have.

If that made sense to you,
Then you must be as broken as I am.

I feel poor. Especially lately. Inflation, losses in my portfolio in the past 2 years, and some major house expenses have made me not want to spend for awhile. We can afford to get things we couldn't previously, but that list of things we can't afford is just as big, it's just filled with more expensive things than before.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by r0wr

Spot on. But those who are making $100k/year and buying $100k cars are the ones who will work until they can't anymore. Once again, it is all situation dependent. If you're a trust fund kid making $100k a year, then who cares? But if you're just an average person and you make $100k/year, you SHOULD be buying cars in the $25-30k range if you wanted to be financially responsible.

Back when I was making "only" $100k I thought my used $30k car was a stretch. No way I would get a $100k car making less than $200k a year.

Originally Posted by r0wr

The thought process that "life is too short" is a really bad mentality. It's not to say you shouldn't enjoy life and the money you make, but with the average life expectancy of 77 years, one should think carefully about buying luxury cars at such a young age even at $100k salary. The compounding on that money over the span of someone's life is a very, very powerful thing.

Not only that, but a $100k car is a burden. At 20-30 years old, you should be taking risks in your career. If I had a $100k car payment at that age, I wouldn't have taken a pay cut to quit my job for another that paid less, but had more upward mobility. I wouldn't have taken those lower paying contracts for the exposure and networking prospects. I might be stuck in the same company, tied down by a car payment.

[r0wr]

Originally Posted by Aalfred

While you do have some valid points, but I wouldnt really brush off the "life is too short" argument and the instant gratification feeling. Say if you make 100K, your take home pay is 75K, that puts your monthly income at roughly $6000. If you live with parents and dont have any debt or minimal student loans, a $1500/month car payment is easily doable. The other factor is if you are making 100K in your 20's, you are expecting your pay to go up much more in your 30's. So your purchasing power is also going up and you can save more and put money in retirement and stocks etc when your income increases at a later date. I get the power of compounding interests, but when it comes to being young and impulsive, the rational thinking goes by the wayside esp when you know u can make it up more as you get older.

Now take a person making 300K in his 40's. His take home pay is about 200K with a monthly income of $17000 roughly. Now you factor in wife, kids, 2-3 car payments, house payments, 401K retirement contribution and student loan payments for 2 people, vacations etc, you prob are left with the same $4000-5000 a month expendable income at the end of it that u save and the more you make, the more your spending becomes to keep up the "life style" and the fact that you CAN afford these esp those $10-15K vacations, send your kids to private school etc that your money that is left at the end of it is prob the same as a 25 yr old making $100K. I dont think everyone does this but its just human nature that the more you make, the more you can afford things and the more you spend. So in the end, unless you start saving all that you make and cut back a lot on ur expenses and live like u are making 100K on a 300K income, we all make bad financial decisions (me included) but it is human nature. So everyone's financial goals and decisions are purely based on their needs and wants. Cest La Vie

I think we can agree to disagree. I stand by my statement that buying a $100k car on a $100k salary, EVEN if you do live at home with your parents, have no debt, is a poor financial decision. You can justify it however you want but short of having a trust fund or something extreme, there are very few situations where one should be spending their whole years gross salary on a car. A $100k car financed over 6 years at 6% is $2k a month not including taxes. Your parents should be ashamed of you if you're living at home, making $6k net a month and spending 1/3rd of that on a depreciating asset at the start of your career.

[r0wr]

Originally Posted by jmg

Back when I was making "only" $100k I thought my used $30k car was a stretch. No way I would get a $100k car making less than $200k a year.

Not only that, but a $100k car is a burden. At 20-30 years old, you should be taking risks in your career. If I had a $100k car payment at that age, I wouldn't have taken a pay cut to quit my job for another that paid less, but had more upward mobility. I wouldn't have taken those lower paying contracts for the exposure and networking prospects. I might be stuck in the same company, tied down by a car payment.

I felt similarly when I bought my used M4 in 2017 for $45k, I was making $150k. Now I'm making triple that and I still hesitate to buy a 911.

Living in California, it's insane how poor one can feel despite having a decent income.

[Pool Shark]

Originally Posted by r0wr

I felt similarly when I bought my used M4 in 2017 for $45k, I was making $150k. Now I'm making triple that and I still hesitate to buy a 911.

Living in California, it's insane how poor one can feel despite having a decent income.

Pricing for a "basic" 911 is out of control--and that doesn't even take into account Porsche dealer's wait list and allocation process.

I love visiting my family in the Seal Beach area, but it is crazy to see how expensive real estate is out there!

[nu2M]

Originally Posted by kgelfen360

Yea it’s good point you bring up. It’s not even that expensive of a car. Higher end truck or an Escalade is same price or more. $90k for MSRP for a car is not that crazy these days. It’s on the high end for sedan but lots of cars are up there now. I actually think it’s pretty decent deal considering the performance you get and still daily use car, just not an SUV.

Originally Posted by r0wr

That just isn't true man. You can get a pretty nice 991.2 T or even S (2017-2019) if you look hard enough for $100k.


Not sure if I agree with you on this. $90k is a lot of money any way you cut it. The average household income in America is less than $90k.

It’s really sad that inflation disproportionately surpassed the pay increase for your average Joe in the states especially.
I fully agree that the M3 is a good deal considering performance & luxury per $$ ratio compared to what’s out there. I never thought I’d ever say that a $100k car is a good deal. In regards to G8x vs. 991.2 T or S….If useable 4 seats weren’t a factor and everything else being equal, I’d choose the G8x any day. With the exception of cornering, the BMW (especially the M3CX) has the 991.2T/S/GTS beat in every aspect. JMHO. Before I go on, let’s not go down the rabbit hole and start a debate on P-cars vs. bimmers, please.
I’ve owned a stage 2 tuned 991.2 GTS. It was putting out just shy of 600hp. I loved that beast. It’s a Porsche! What’s there to not like!? For everyday use, practicality, and performance, the M3CX is a faster and a better street car. Yes, you heard it right, faster (on the street and not the track). The 992 is a whole new animal and it’s significantly more expensive. Kudos to BMW for the G8x!

[vbb]

The median household income in the US is about $76k/yr. Median rent is $2k/month, median home price is $416k. The average new car price is $48k with the average payment around $730/mo. People are spending about 12% of their gross, pre-tax income on their car payment.

Obviously these numbers vary when you look at specific localities, but those data points at least get the conversation started.

For ease of the math, let's say a new G8X is double the average new car price. Just based on the responses in this thread, I would guess most would say $152k/yr (double the median income) is probably too light to buy a G8X, but that would be in line with what the "average American" would consider enough. Kind of eye-opening.

I'm not arguing what people should do... that's subjective to each person's circumstances, preachy, and really, I don’t care what people i dont know spend on their car payments. I'm just pointing out the data.