[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Android

Blunt does not bother me . . . so no worries there.

Of course, only you can decide what is fun, or more fun to you . . . for me, coming from the M2C DCT that I enjoyed the hell out of, the G80C offers an overall superior performance experience. ZF8 performance no different than DCT to ME. Actually, the ZF8 power shifts are better/stronger than with DCT.

Cannot speak of the paddles, as I have never used them; I like shifter engagement and FEELING the shifts through the shifter. Remnants of the MT fanboy in me. Nonetheless, I suspect the G80C paddles will be just fine if paddle shifting is your preference.

///AVM

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Android

Blunt does not bother me . . . so no worries there.

Of course, only you can decide what is fun, or more fun to you . . . for me, coming from the M2C DCT that I enjoyed the hell out of, the G80C offers an overall superior performance experience. ZF8 performance no different than DCT to ME. Actually, the ZF8 power shifts are better/stronger than with DCT.

Cannot speak of the paddles, as I have never used them; I like shifter engagement and FEELING the shifts through the shifter. Remnants of the MT fanboy in me. Nonetheless, I suspect the G80C paddles will be just fine if paddle shifting is your preference.

///AVM

I use the shifter too, but the paddles are just as fun. what I enjoy is knowing when you hit +/- on the gear lever or paddles it will shift hard, fast and make you want to drive the car more. The delay between engagement and actuation are all I'm concerned about. I haven't driven a G80/82 yet because the dealers here don't have any that aren't sold sadly. I have no doubt I'll love the one I ordered. Most of what I said was me thinking aloud more so than it being a true concern. I could've ordered a F90 LCI or RS6 Avant but I want the G80 for the color, options, and I know it'll drive the best in terms of being fun.


HWY speed limits here are 75-80mph and there are roads where you can top out your car easily and safely so I will be able to properly enjoy my G80. We don't have a track sadly or I'd take my M2

[evilalien]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

I then realized it was the first time I had gotten into G80C with sunglasses on. More specifically, polarized sunglasses . . . which I now know all but blocks out HUD.

Just an FYI for anyone who didn't already know this. Big deal? Only if you enjoy HUD and wearing polarized sunglasses simultaneous.

///AVM

I didn't even think of that, thank you for adding this really practical observation to your already awesome thread. I wear sunglasses when I drive easily 75%+ of the time.

Guess I need to start shopping for some non-polarized driving shades.

[TrentMeister]

Originally Posted by evilalien

I didn't even think of that, thank you for adding this really practical observation to your already awesome thread. I wear sunglasses when I drive easily 75%+ of the time.

Guess I need to start shopping for some non-polarized driving shades.

You can honestly still see it just fine..

It's just a bit more ghostly with shades on

[JDUNITNOW]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

I wear sunglasses about as often as I turn the stereo on in my visceral driving machines. . . almost never.

So, beautiful, sunny evening hear in northern Midwest. Perfect occasion for a spirited drive to absolutely nowhere.

As already established, I am digging HUD; specifically, HUD tachometer function. Jump in. Start up. Hit M Mode button to activate SPORT view (tachometer).

Look up and HUD is barely visible. As though 'brightness' was turned all the way down. Went into settings and HUD brightness was right where I previously set it. I'm like, what the fuck?!

I then realized it was the first time I had gotten into G80C with sunglasses on. More specifically, polarized sunglasses . . . which I now know all but blocks out HUD.

Just an FYI for anyone who didn't already know this. Big deal? Only if you enjoy HUD and wearing polarized sunglasses simultaneous.

///AVM

Ha... yes when I got my X5, I thought something was wrong with my HUD and tried readjusting it. I paid too much money for my shades so I just deal with it.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by LBbluem2

You can honestly still see it just fine.. .It's just a bit more ghostly with shades on

I suppose there are different quality polarized lenses that come into play . . . with my current sunglasses the HUD is essentially 'non-visible.'

If I tilt my head a bit I can capture the 'ghostly' image, but (1) I am not driving around with my head tilted and (2) even when tilted, the HUD is not functionally visible. . . . meaning it is so still so faint that it is of no value.

At any rate, yes, I would see how things stand on an individual basis before abandoning the polarized shades for non-polarized.

///AVM

[buckybadger]

Originally Posted by ai388

This is the ultimate thread!

I had a short drive of my friend's brand new M3C which I'm considering as my next vehicle. Coming from a M2 DCT and M2C DCT, I'm really torn with letting the M2C go. Absolutely my favourite car! The M2C setup is what I love about it. Short wheelbase, nimble, fixed suspension, DCT. Dry days - MDM mode, wet days - Sport Plus, S2 setting for both.

The M3C is noticeably bigger not as compact and more body roll but it has HUD, BSM, and a more luxury interior. My biggest fear is the transition from DCT to ZF8. I'm afraid I will miss those shifts and the S55 "whine" that some people don't like. I didn't put it in S3 setting with my friend's brand new car. Everything in the M3C felt so smooth, not much of the rawness from the M2C. The interior is very quiet, I can barely hear the stock exhaust. Will it open after the break-in period?

After reading all the posts in this thread, it gave me hope that S3 setting might be the deal breaker. (I've already looked past the front grille). Hope I can drive the M3C again to finalize my decision, but we'll see.

OP, thanks for your honest insights! Keep us updated

You will get a biased suggestion here.
If you like the M2C then don't sell it, you will regret it.
M2Cs are a rare breed. In SD, I have already seen the new M3Cs a few times but don't see many M2Cs, maybe once every 2-3 months.
I would keep the M2C and buy the M3C LCI. Patience is a virtue!

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by buckybadger

You will get a biased suggestion here.
If you like the M2C then don't sell it, you will regret it.
M2Cs are a rare breed. In SD, I have already seen the new M3Cs a few times but don't see many M2Cs, maybe once every 2-3 months.
I would keep the M2C and buy the M3C LCI. Patience is a virtue!

There are multiple M2C converts on this forum, including myself. I have yet to read about anyone regretting the move.

For me, it was only after a spirited test drive that I was ready to let my M2C 6MT go (my second one). The F87 cleaned up what I didn’t like about the F80 drive; I loved it. The G8x is even better, retaining a surprising amount of agility while having higher handling limits, and leaves behind all of the 2-series compromises. Interior, tech, fuel tank size, seating position, stereo, engine power, storage, ride compliance/adjustability, and street presence are all improved over the smaller car.

The M2C is a charming car due to size and focus and is still my preferred way of spending a $60k budget on a fun daily. Way better than any non-CS F8x. If you can come up to $80k, you get a far more complete product with the new G8x.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by buckybadger

You will get a biased suggestion here. If you like the M2C then don't sell it, you will regret it. M2Cs are a rare breed. In SD, I have already seen the new M3Cs a few times but don't see many M2Cs, maybe once every 2-3 months. I would keep the M2C and buy the M3C LCI. Patience is a virtue!

Buckybadger

We all have our inherent biases. Your enthusiasm toward the F87 is very understandable, as it has proven itself to represent a great model release by BMW. However, the F87 has been released in many iterations over the past few years, while the first iteration of the G8x has only recently been released. . . perhaps there is a good reason why you already see more G8x on the road?

I do not think my expressed opinions are biased. I enjoyed the hell out of my M2C. I enjoy the G80C more. Specifically, the G80C offers next-level performance, which is most important to me. Others who have owned and extensively driven each model might find they enjoy the F87 more. I would not try to convince them otherwise.

I am sure the G8x LCI will offer desirable tweaks on the part of BMW but, by that time, I suspect the G87 will be available and also offer next-level performance over the F87. The question will then be whether one waits for the G87 Competition, CS, or possibly even CSL model?

Performance wise, I just do not see BMW going backwards . . . nor do I believe many would ‘regret’ moving from the F80/82/87 to the G8x model.

///AVM

[aassad1]

Buckybadger

I also went from an M2C to an M3C and while I don't regret it there are certainly things I miss about the M2C. When driving I miss the size and feeling that I could toss it around, I do miss the 6MT in that car, but didn't feel like the 6MT was the better choice for the M3C. It almost felt like an after thought when I test drove that version.

What I love about the M3C is that it feels like a more complete package and a more refined product. I think I'm getting used to the size difference, but the way this car delivers power is actually scary in a good way. Even w/ BM3 using an M4CS tune on the M2C I felt like I was never scared of the car's power. At this point I'm finding excuses to drive the car in a way I never have before. I really am super happy with the switch, but for a few things that may be sorted with the next M2, but for now I'm a happy guy.

[///AVM]

Getting back to the HUD and polarized sunglasses . . . was not sure it could be demonstrated with iPhone camera, which is all I know how to (barely) use. Aim and fire.

So, I had a moment, pulled over and snapped some shots of HUD with and without sunglasses in field of view. My sunglass lenses are also corrective, so the view through them is a bit blurry.

At any rate, 'clearly' demonstrates the impact of polarization on HUD.

///AVM

[dialogical]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Getting back to the HUD and polarized sunglasses . . . was not sure it could be demonstrated with iPhone camera, which is all I know how to (barely) use. Aim and fire.

So, I had a moment, pulled over and snapped some shots of HUD with and without sunglasses in field of view. My sunglass lenses are also corrective, so the view through them is a bit blurry.

At any rate, 'clearly' demonstrates the impact of polarization on HUD.

///AVM

Yeah I'm just gonna buy non-polarized lenses for my driving Oakley's and swap them in.

[jonahk]

Originally Posted by dialogical

Yeah I'm just gonna buy non-polarized lenses for my driving Oakley's and swap them in.

lol my wife always makes fun of me for my "driving oakleys" I'm going to show her this post so she knows I'm not the only one 😂

[FISH22]

Great comparison on the HUD. I’m actually planning to go out this weekend and purchase some non polarized lenses for driving the M. It’s quite bad just how much I can’t see it.

[dialogical]

Originally Posted by jonahk

lol my wife always makes fun of me for my "driving oakleys" I'm going to show her this post so she knows I'm not the only one 😂

My face is wide as hell, so I love Oakley's XL sizes. When I realized I could finally buy a nice pair of sunglasses that fit me I immediately bought 3 pairs.

If it makes her feel any better they aren't really "driving glasses" as much as they are "the pair I leave in the car".

[///AVM]

Based on what little time I have spent in the stock seats, they seem fantastic; if I had them, I am confident I would be more than satisfied with them. Nonetheless, having extensive ‘seat time’ with the CFBS, I could not be happier with my purchase decision.

1. It seems largely agreed upon by G80/82 owners that the CFBS are both comfortable and extremely effective toward restraint/bracing. Although most apparent during spirited driving, I enjoy how the seats ‘mold you into place’ on all occasions.

For reference, I am 6’ tall and 175lbs and have zero issues whatsoever with the prominent bolstering . . . I doubt an individual with a 'large' body habitus would find CFBS bolstering as enjoyable as the stock seats. I will not try and define what is ‘too large,’ as that is something each individual will have to determine for themself.

2. Perhaps the greatest ‘displeasure’ expressed is associated with entry and egress due to the large lower bolsters. If you are an individual with extremely large thighs well, again, I would suggest opting for the stock seats.

I am not going to insult anyone’s intelligence by going over 90-degree entry/egress but will say this technique is essential. Even for those accustomed to such technique from prior experience with sport seats, the G80/82 CFBS represent an extreme ‘bolster obstacle’ . . . still, an obstacle that is easily remedied.

The top pic below is my set driving position. You can see the ‘gap’ between the side and lower seat bolsters is quite small. If entry and egress are attempted, no way around having to ‘ride’ the top of the lower bolster. Not much of a problem ‘falling’ into the seat (entry) but can be quite a task ‘climbing’ over and out (egress).

The remedy is extremely simple. As shown in the second pic below, you simply have to recline the seat. This opens up the ‘gap’ so that you no longer have to ride the side bolster; your thigh will rest low and relatively comfortably between the side and lower bolsters. Two memory control buttons allow easy access to driving and entry/egress positions.

3. Finally, there is some negativity expressed regarding the central bolster (bottom pic), particularly with regard to its hindrance with manual shifting (clutch use).

Unless you have extremely large thighs that do not comfortably fit between the side and central bolsters, I cannot imagine how anyone would find them intrusive or uncomfortable? Still, some may. Personally, I really like how the central bolster provides a nice ‘molded’ feeling on my thighs in conjunction with the side bolsters.

While I own a G80C, there are a fair number of complaints pertaining to the central bolster when it comes to clutch use, e.g., clutch leg ‘rubbing’ against the bolster. With an extensive MT history, I must admit that this would likely prove true and extremely annoying over time. Something I would consider very carefully with regard to G80/82 MT purchase.

///AVM

[akkando]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Thank you again Rugby!

I am not a technical guru when it comes to ‘what is under the hood,’ so to speak. My interest resides in everyday function, e.g., does it perform up to my expectation?

The above stated, the videos you provided were very informative. I do not want to get in over my head technically but would like to TRY and relate ‘function and form’ just a little bit.

At the end of the second video the engineer expresses his view that BMW accomplished near perfection in terms of (1) speed and (2) comfort with the M Streptronic (ZF8).

Shift SPEED is pretty self-explanatory in terms of perception. This thread is a perfect example, as I inadvertently performed an experiment between S1 and S3, confirming S3 shifts are significantly faster and more satisfactory (with both DCT and ZF8).

Technically, the engineer indicates shifts are faster with DCT than ZF8 with OPTIMAL gear shifts while, viz a viz, this would suggest the ZF8 is faster with ‘non-optimal’ shifts.

To simplify, I will leave out DCT/ZF8 automatic mode in terms of shift speed and assume the computer optimizes the shifts in both DCT and ZF8. That stated, functionally, I find ZF8 automatic FAR superior to DCT automatic mode.

In terms of ‘optimal’ when it comes to manual shifts, this is where I get in over my head technically but am under the impression optimal occurs at red line. I provide reference below and am open to commentary and insight by others on the topic.

If optimal occurs at redline with manual shifts, this would suggest that DCT shifts are only faster than ZF8 in that one instance. However, getting back to perception thresholds in every day spirited driving, I really do not perceive the difference between ZF8 and DCT with optimal shifts (or non-optimal shifts before red line).

What is comfort with respect to gear shifts? Smoothness of shifts? Abruptness might generally be considered suboptimal BUT tends to be embraced with spirited drivers. Perhaps this captures the ‘raw vs refined’ nature of DCT and ZF8, respectively?

If so, I would agree the ZF8 shifts are smoother (more comfortable) than DCT . . . but both lay the torque/power down and kick you in the back.

///AVM

https://glennmessersmith.com/shiftpt.html

I'm guessing optimal for DCT is just when it makes a correct prediction and not an incorrect one. Any time you go from 4th to 5th and that's what it predicted is optimal. Any time you go from 4th to 5th but it predicted 3rd it's not optimal and it's pretty slow. You could make this happen by being on the brakes but upshifting. The way I drive it it's almost always making a correct prediction and I would guess feels more responsive than the zf8 but I won't know until I try a new one.

[TrentMeister]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Getting back to the HUD and polarized sunglasses . . . was not sure it could be demonstrated with iPhone camera, which is all I know how to (barely) use. Aim and fire.

So, I had a moment, pulled over and snapped some shots of HUD with and without sunglasses in field of view. My sunglass lenses are also corrective, so the view through them is a bit blurry.

At any rate, 'clearly' demonstrates the impact of polarization on HUD.

///AVM

Oh wow yeah my raybans don't effect it hardly at all

[dialogical]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Based on what little time I have spent in the stock seats, they seem fantastic; if I had them, I am confident I would be more than satisfied with them. Nonetheless, having extensive ‘seat time’ with the CFBS, I could not be happier with my purchase decision.

Although I am not here to try and convince anyone that what suits my interests will also serve their best interest, I do want to comment on a couple common and negative perspectives . . . in case anyone is on the fence or otherwise concerned about the CFBS moving forward in their purchase decision.

1. It seems largely agreed upon by G80/82 owners that the CFBS are both comfortable and extremely effective toward restraint/bracing. Although most apparent during spirited driving, I enjoy how the seats ‘mold you into place’ on all occasions.

For reference, I am 6’ tall and 175lbs and have zero issues whatsoever with the prominent bolstering . . . I doubt an individual with a large body habitus would find bolstering of the CFBS as an enjoyable as the stock seats. I will not try and define what is ‘too large,’ as that is something each individual will have to determine for themself.

2. Perhaps the greatest ‘displeasure’ expressed is associated with entry and egress due to the large lower bolsters. If you are an individual with extremely large thighs well, again, I would suggest opting for the stock seats.

I am not going to insult anyone’s intelligence by going over 90-degree entry/egress but will say this technique is essential. Even for those accustomed to such technique from experience with sport seats in other models, the G80/82 CFBS represent an extreme ‘bolster obstacle’ . . . still, an obstacle that is easily remedied.

The top pic below is my set driving position. You can see the ‘gap’ between the side and lower seat bolsters is quite small. If entry and egress are attempted, no way around having to ‘ride’ the top of the lower bolster. Not much of a problem ‘falling’ into the seat (entry) but can be quite a task ‘climbing’ over and out (egress).

The remedy is extremely simple. As shown in the second pic below, you simply have to recline the seat. This opens up the ‘gap’ so that you no longer have to ride the side bolster; your thigh will rest low and relatively comfortably between the side and lower bolsters. Two memory control buttons allow easy access to driving and entry/egress positions.

3. Finally, there is some negativity expressed regarding the central bolster (bottom pic), particularly with regard to its hindrance with manual shifting (clutch use).

First, unless you have extremely large thighs that do not comfortably fit between the side and central bolsters, I cannot imagine how anyone would find them intrusive or uncomfortable? Still, some may. Personally, I really like how the central bolster provides a nice ‘molded’ feeling on my thighs in conjunction with the side bolsters.

Second, while I own a G80C, there are a fair number of complaints pertaining to the central bolster when it comes to clutch use, e.g., clutch leg ‘rubbing’ against the bolster. With an extensive MT history, I must admit that this would likely prove true and extremely annoying over time. Something I would consider very carefully with regard to G80/82 MT purchase.

///AVM

Building on point 2, about large thighs: the main issue for me was literally just the wideness of my frame.

I'm pretty huge at 6'4", but I'm not overweight. The distance between my legs when I'm sitting comfortably is simply much wider than the average person's due to my size, and the end result is that I could never effectively work the clutch with my legs forced so tightly together.

I'd urge even the tall skinny folks to sit before they buy.

[evilalien]

Originally Posted by jonahk

lol my wife always makes fun of me for my "driving oakleys" I'm going to show her this post so she knows I'm not the only one 😂

I will start looking at options now … thanks dialogical, very effective demonstration. I have a pair of polarized sunglasses that live in my car just in case I don't have my favourite Oakleys on me (read: forgot them).

[mzcp]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

There are multiple M2C converts on this forum, including myself. I have yet to read about anyone regretting the move.

For me, it was only after a spirited test drive that I was ready to let my M2C 6MT go (my second one). The F87 cleaned up what I didn’t like about the F80 drive; I loved it. The G8x is even better, retaining a surprising amount of agility while having higher handling limits, and leaves behind all of the 2-series compromises. Interior, tech, fuel tank size, seating position, stereo, engine power, storage, ride compliance/adjustability, and street presence are all improved over the smaller car.

The M2C is a charming car due to size and focus and is still my preferred way of spending a $60k budget on a fun daily. Way better than any non-CS F8x. If you can come up to $80k, you get a far more complete product with the new G8x.

100% agree. I don't miss my M2C. Waiting for the AS SSK and that would be perfect for me

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by akkando

I'm guessing optimal for DCT is just when it makes a correct prediction and not an incorrect one. Any time you go from 4th to 5th and that's what it predicted is optimal. Any time you go from 4th to 5th but it predicted 3rd it's not optimal and it's pretty slow. You could make this happen by being on the brakes but upshifting. The way I drive it it's almost always making a correct prediction and I would guess feels more responsive than the zf8 but I won't know until I try a new one.

Thank you akkando

Indeed, I did reference ‘optimal’ in terms of acceleration, which occurs with red line shifts, or thereabouts. . . just as with MT.

However, given the constraints associated with spirited roadway driving (as opposed to the track), I am not always looking for maximal acceleration. A modest ‘climb’ up the rev range can be very engaging. Yet, by the time I get to the top of the rev range, I am still at an ‘optimal’ and predictable shift point. . . even if not achieving maximal acceleration through aggressive throttle input. I like to keep RPMs up above 3.5-4K during spirited driving, which also dictates my downshift points.

Stated differently, I agree with you in terms of optimal shift points with DCT/ZF8, including matching actual shifts with computer predicted shifts. Since I like to wring out my engine when driving I am nearly always in that optimal/predictable range, although I am not always after maximal acceleration.

Also, to your point, I realize everyone enjoys driving differently. For example, some might not enjoy or feel comfortable being constantly in 2nd-4th gears with a wrung-out engine; instead, may prefer moving through all the gears at lower revs. Based on the BMW video, these individuals are most likely going to find ZF8 shifts more ‘pleasing’ than with DCT.

Setting the technical aspects aside, all I really care about is performance. I find ZF8 manual mode to be as effective as DCT when it comes manual shifting enjoyment and performance. If ZF8 is slower, the difference is outside my sensory threshold. ZF8 shifter feel and ‘chassis kick’ is as engaging as DCT when it comes to laying torque/power down. . . I have also found ZF8 power shifts to be more productive than with DCT.

Of course, you will form your own views, which may differ from those of mine. That is cool.

///AVM

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by dialogical

Building on point 2, about large thighs: the main issue for me was literally just the wideness of my frame.

I'm pretty huge at 6'4", but I'm not overweight. The distance between my legs when I'm sitting comfortably is simply much wider than the average person's due to my size, and the end result is that I could never effectively work the clutch with my legs forced so tightly together.

I'd urge even the tall skinny folks to sit before they buy.

Dialogical

Excellent point. Thank you for adding . . .

Indeed, some individuals possess a larger 'frame' that could be incompatible with the CFBS, even if there is not necessarily a lot of meat on that frame.

///AVM