[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

O2

Thank you for providing the video.

What remains unclear to me at this point is whether MDM simply represents an undisclosed setting in MTC, e.g., setting 6?

///AVM

Here’s BMW M’s answer (they responded to someone’s comment on the video).

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Here’s BMW M’s answer (they responded to someone’s comment on the video).

Thank you 02

This is a perfect example of, 'be careful what you ask for.'

Like just about everything in a car, really not sure how it works on a technical level, rather, only on a functional level.

You have helped me establish that MDM is not simply an MTC setting . . . from here on out it will just be me tinkering and learning what MTC equates to through controlled application.

Eager to explore and will report back when I arrive at some conclusion.

///AVM

[aassad1]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Congratulations! Yes, the M2C is a fantastic car; I'm still fond of its simplicity and focus. I think you'll find that, the more vigorously you drive your new car, the more overlap there is between the two driving experiences.

The 6MT base car is another one that does better when driven with more verve. How hard did you get to drive it?

I honestly didn't drive the 6MT M4 with too much vigor as I wasn't comfortable with the handling at first. After a bit of seat time I feel like if I went back and drove it my experience would have been better, but that being said I'm not regretting getting the ZF8. I'm having so much fun tweaking my driving settings and finding the sweet spots for my driving style. I will say that AVM's suggestion about keeping the Rev range on the higher eide has been a lot of fun. Funny enough my buddy that works at the dealership I traded my M2C to bought it haha. So I will still have access to it for some memories if I want.

[aassad1]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Congrats aassad!

By 1,000 miles the M2C will be a distant memory . . . the G80/82 is next level engineering and performance.

As a former MT fanboy, everything I enjoyed and more is present with PDK/DCT and now ZF8.

Ability to control shift points is EVERYTHING! The bonus is that you get to power shift.

The second bonus is you do have an impressive ZF8 automatic mode if the mood presents itself (e.g., long highway hauls or traffic).

Do not miss the clutch AT ALL!

Finally, for whatever reason that really miffs me, it seems most that utilize PDK/DCT/ZF8 manual mode do so through the paddles. I NEVER use the paddles, as I do not want to give up holding and engaging the shifter; I need to 'feel' the shifts. DO NOT USE THOSE PADDLES

Enjoy your new ride and keep us up-to-date as things settle in over time.

///AVM

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) with the M2C was a complete nightmare right out of the box. The 'nanny' intrusion was horrible. Conversely, M Dynamic Mode (MDM) was quite enjoyable and not too intrusive for relatively safe AND spirited daily driving. Once you become familiar with the M2C and roadway conditions SAFELY allowed, turning DSC completely off was a blast.

By comparison, DSC with the G80 M3C is not nearly as intrusive, and MDM is also an apparent sweet spot for BOTH safe and spirited daily driving. Nonetheless, there are occasions when the roadway conditions permit next-level 'spiritedness' and I would like to start exploring M Traction Control (MTC).

It seems there is more to MTC than initially meets the eye. If MTC 0 (zero) is DSC completely off and setting 10 is DSC fully engaged, then you would think MDM would fall somewhere in-between (e.g., MDM = MTC setting 6). However, in my initial attempts to figure this out, this does not seem to be the case. There must be more to this than meets the eye?

As per many new things, the best way to learn is to jump in and explore. I will find an open and safe venue to 'play' with various MTC settings. Not sure how long it will take me to become familiar and comfortable with various MTC settings but will report back when I find a 'landing pad' in terms of favorite setting(s) for various conditions.

In the interim, if anyone can provide some feedback about how MDM vs MTC works I would be appreciative. Again, it does not seem MDM is simply a setting between 0 and 10 on the MTC scale???

///AVM

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Congratulations! Yes, the M2C is a fantastic car; I'm still fond of its simplicity and focus. I think you'll find that, the more vigorously you drive your new car, the more overlap there is between the two driving experiences.

The 6MT base car is another one that does better when driven with more verve. How hard did you get to drive it?

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Congrats aassad!

By 1,000 miles the M2C will be a distant memory . . . the G80/82 is next level engineering and performance.

As a former MT fanboy, everything I enjoyed and more is present with PDK/DCT and now ZF8.

Ability to control shift points is EVERYTHING! The bonus is that you get to power shift.

The second bonus is you do have an impressive ZF8 automatic mode if the mood presents itself (e.g., long highway hauls or traffic).

Do not miss the clutch AT ALL!

Finally, for whatever reason that really miffs me, it seems most that utilize PDK/DCT/ZF8 manual mode do so through the paddles. I NEVER use the paddles, as I do not want to give up holding and engaging the shifter; I need to 'feel' the shifts. DO NOT USE THOSE PADDLES

Enjoy your new ride and keep us up-to-date as things settle in over time.

///AVM

I did take your advice yesterday and shifted with the gear shifter instead of the paddles and it was definitely more fun. Also exploring the different transmission setting Shas opened up a new world of in with this thing. I had no clue about the d and settings. You have been a great resource so far! About to go on a road trip so more fun to be had!

[///AVM]

aassad1

Great stuff . . . glad you are enjoying exploring the options and limits of your new machine.

///AVM

P.S. I think you are exceeding the allotted quote quota

[garpt]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Congrats Garpt!

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and enthusiasm for your new M3.

I have to agree with you about the S58 . . . it is most certainly a highlight of the G80/82. Not sure how BMW engineers outdid themselves with respect to the S55, but they have!

The 'handling' is something that took some time - the most time - for ME to appreciate. The car itself - like any other - simply takes time to come into its own. On my end, it simply takes seat time to 'mesh' with a vehicle.

My most recent sources of handling comparison are the M2C and 718 CGTS. At this point I am as impressed with the M3C handling as I was the M2C. In some regards, even more so . . . I doubt there are many cars on the road that will ever compete with the 718 handling.

I do not share your enthusiasm for the G80 design architecture ('looks') . . . but I do not care about the looks anymore than anyone else cares what I think about how the car looks. If the G80 appeals to your visual senses, that is all that matters. I can only imagine how amazing that IOMG looks in the Florida sunshine.

I am not sure running the vehicle at 3000 RPM is what most would consider 'spirited,' but if you like the experience in that rev range, then you will likely become priaprismic when you start pushing it to the upper rev limits.

Like you, I grow more enticed with the G80 every time I drive it . . . great car!

Drive safe, enjoy and let us know how things continue to evolve as your ownership experience moves forward.

Best

///AVM

Thanks, ///AVM!
I guess I could have explained myself better with the "spirited driving" thing. Sure, I love to rev it up over 6K on occasion. Here in Florida, we have a LOT of very straight four lane roads. When I want to get somewhere in a bit more "spirited" fashion (there are many traffic lights and slower drivers down here), I like to keep the engine revving right at the beginning of the high- torque area, around 3000 RPM, so if I have a slower driver in front of me, just drop the pedal and get that rush of torque to overpass the vehicle. It makes it at least a little more fun, in lieu of the lack of nice, winding roads like I had up in Connecticut for most of my driving years. As far as architecture (styling), I have a couple of quibbles, but I think the car presents beautifully from the side, 3/4 view, and the rear. The way the nice flare- out of the rear fender blends into the door is a bit goofy, definitely looks like they just ran out of room and didn't want to have the expense to re- tool the rear door, which I'm certain is what happened. Once you notice it, it is hard to un- notice it. There are also some goofy lines- the "beauty" line just kind of fades away by the time you get to the rear door, and there are some silly looking lines that go off on tangents- especially the one next to the rear wheel well which I always think is a long scratch every time I look at it. One can say the styling is a bit "busy" in spots, but it all comes together to make a very intriguing whole. The grilles- one either loves them or hates them. I happen to think it is refreshing dynamic look for a usually conservative styling team. Regarding the handling- only quip might be the steering, but it is massively better than my 2016 F30. Perhaps a little vague on- center when driving aggressively through corners.
Thanks for making me look a little more critically at our new cars. But you are correct, when push comes to shove, they are a joy to drive, and it always commands my attention. Thanks for making me look a little more critically at our G80's!

[997CABOVA]

This is a great post great info and input from alot of ppl thanks

I got my M3C this week and went for a nice ride this morning.
Currently have 35X miles on the car and everything under 300 Miles was in Efficient and Comfort Mode the comfort and how this car handles the road and bumps is so smooth very impressed bye this

After about 300 miles this morning I decided to start putting things in sport and sport plus and am completely blown away bye this chassis the grip and stability is unreal for a sedan

Also ill say the sound i had my windows down and heard the exhaust for the first time i liked it off throttle i heard the burbles and higher rpms the engine sound was good in sport and better in sport plus and downshifts in S3 I could feel and hear the downshifts

The transmission to me is amazing because in Comfort just city driving its smooth and in S3 up and downshifts are amazing and fast


Too me BMW nailed this car im completely satisfied and I havent even opened up her up yet
The thing i like about this car it has character it tingles your senses which too me is a huge plus and thats the one thing i was worried about at first not owning the car but thank you BMW you made a fantastic modern old school vehicle in my opinion

This car can be whatever you want it a comfy cruiser or a literal weapon got to love progress

Everyone enjoy there cars in good health

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by 997CABOVA

This is a great post great info and input from alot of ppl thanks . . . I got my M3C this week . . . This car can be whatever you want it a comfy cruiser or a literal weapon got to love progress. . . Everyone enjoy there cars in good health

Congrats 997!

Yes, it truly is a great driving machine.

Enjoy the road!!!

///AVM

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by garpt

Thanks, ///AVM! . . . Thanks for making me look a little more critically at our new cars. But you are correct, when push comes to shove, they are a joy to drive, and it always commands my attention. . . .

You got it garpt!

It is easy to be critical and there are a fair share of pundits on this forum . . . critical thinking, however, is not all about pointing out negatives, and can hardly be accomplished from the sideline or quick test drives around the block.

The G80/82 is not perfect but, overall, I do believe it is an incredible feat on the part of BMW engineers.

A useful litmus test I have come to apply is whether I look forward to the driving occasion; even going out with no occasion in mind other than simply driving. The G80 certain passes the litmus test.

Damn, now I think I need to go out for a spirited drive!!!

///AVM

[///AVM]

Began to experiment with the M Traction Control (MTC) . . . large, open parking lot with a relatively good blacktop surface.

Information provided in post #111 above by 02M3ForMe became clear:

MTC: RPM-limited wheel spin rate; no yaw (‘sideways’) limitation
MDM:RPM and yaw limitation

In short, MTC does not limit how ‘sideways’ you can get, per se. What limits how sideways you can get is wheel spin according to RPMs. Conversely, MDM limits both how ‘sideways’ you can get simultaneously with wheel spin limits.

Now, a brief step back . . . with F87 M2C, DSC nannies are annoyingly intrusive. DSC with G80 M3C is hardly noticeable, if at all (seamlessly ‘limits’ rather than ‘cutting out’).

MDM with M2C and M3C both GREAT with spirited driving. Allows some yaw and wheel spin that is fun, nicely controlled and relatively safe with good judgment on common roadways.

The key to enjoying MDM mode is recognizing the system will let you get a certain degree sideways AND also allows you to pull through it if you maintain throttle input. On the other hand, if you start to get sideways and release throttle, MDM will intervene pretty quickly. In other words, MDM lets you get the tail out and senses your degree of 'control' over the situation through your throttle input. If you keep the throttle down, MDM lets you ride a nicely contained yaw out.

If you find yourself in an open parking lot or similar condition that allows you to do donuts or get really sideways, then turning DSC completely off is money. As per my prior post on the topic, such opportunity/interest represents a rare occasion for ME.

So, after some experimentation with MTC today I honestly do not envision it having any value for ME. For full hooligans in limited settings (e.g., large, open parking lot), either you want DSC off, or not. The intermediate settings are of no advantage.

I CAN envision how a driver on a closed track might want to get a little ‘Chris Harris’ about things (e.g., drift around the track). Applying intermediate MTC settings could allow for such fun without ending up ‘off course.’ Then again, how many people have access to a closed track and, at the same time, hooligans are a priority over safely getting around the track at high speed???

SUMMARY: When safe enthusiasm is a priority, then MDM seems to represent an ideal setting. To ME, MDM is ideal for nearly every form of spirited roadway driving, whereas MTC does not currently appear to have any role.

///AVM

[aassad1]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Began to experiment with the M Traction Control (MTC) . . . large, open parking lot with a relatively good blacktop surface.

Information provided in post #111 above by 02M3ForMe became clear:

MTC: RPM-limited wheel spin rate; no yaw (‘sideways’) limitation
MDM:RPM and yaw limitation

In short, MTC does not limit how ‘sideways’ you can get, per se. What limits how sideways you can get is wheel spin according to RPMs. Conversely, MDM limits both how ‘sideways’ you can get simultaneously with wheel spin limits.

Now, a brief step back . . . with F87 M2C, DSC nannies are annoyingly intrusive. DSC with G80 M3C is hardly noticeable, if at all (seamlessly ‘limits’ rather than ‘cutting out’).

MDM with M2C and M3C both GREAT with spirited driving. Allows some yaw and wheel spin that is fun, nicely controlled and relatively safe with good judgment on common roadways.

The key to enjoying MDM mode is recognizing the system will let you get a certain degree sideways AND also allows you to pull through it if you maintain throttle input. On the other hand, if you start to get sideways and release throttle, MDM will intervene pretty quickly. In other words, MDM lets you get the tail out and senses your degree of 'control' over the situation through your throttle input. If you keep the throttle down, MDM lets you ride a nicely contained yaw out.

If you find yourself in an open parking lot or similar condition that allows you to do donuts or get really sideways, then turning DSC completely off is money. As per my prior post on the topic, such opportunity/interest represents a rare occasion for ME.

So, after some experimentation with MTC today I honestly do not envision it having any value for ME. For full hooligans in limited settings (e.g., large, open parking lot), either you want DSC off, or not. The intermediate settings are of no advantage.

I CAN envision how a driver on a closed track might want to get a little ‘Chris Harris’ about things (e.g., drift around the track). Applying intermediate MTC settings could allow for such fun without ending up ‘off course.’ Then again, how many people have access to a closed track and, at the same time, hooligans are a priority over safely getting around the track at high speed???

SUMMARY: When safe enthusiasm is a priority, then MDM seems to represent an ideal setting. To ME, MDM is ideal for nearly every form of spirited roadway driving, whereas MTC does not currently appear to have any role.

///AVM

Ha sorry about that. Not too familiar with using the app version of bimmerpost, which is what I'm on today.

Did a 2ish hour drive from Baltimore to Philly today. Most of it was done in comfort because the misses and I had a little too much fun. I did get a chance to pop it into M2 driving along a somewhat twisty riverfront road and it was heavenly. Best part about this car so far is that I get to be a hooligan but my fiance has said no less than 5x that this car is so much comfier than my old car haha.

[Transfer]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Began to experiment with the M Traction Control (MTC) . . . large, open parking lot with a relatively good blacktop surface.

Information provided in post #111 above by 02M3ForMe became clear:

MTC: RPM-limited wheel spin rate; no yaw (‘sideways’) limitation
MDM:RPM and yaw limitation

In short, MTC does not limit how ‘sideways’ you can get, per se. What limits how sideways you can get is wheel spin according to RPMs. Conversely, MDM limits both how ‘sideways’ you can get simultaneously with wheel spin limits.

Now, a brief step back . . . with F87 M2C, DSC nannies are annoyingly intrusive. DSC with G80 M3C is hardly noticeable, if at all (seamlessly ‘limits’ rather than ‘cutting out’).

MDM with M2C and M3C both GREAT with spirited driving. Allows some yaw and wheel spin that is fun, nicely controlled and relatively safe with good judgment on common roadways.

The key to enjoying MDM mode is recognizing the system will let you get a certain degree sideways AND also allows you to pull through it if you maintain throttle input. On the other hand, if you start to get sideways and release throttle, MDM will intervene pretty quickly. In other words, MDM lets you get the tail out and senses your degree of 'control' over the situation through your throttle input. If you keep the throttle down, MDM lets you ride a nicely contained yaw out.

If you find yourself in an open parking lot or similar condition that allows you to do donuts or get really sideways, then turning DSC completely off is money. As per my prior post on the topic, such opportunity/interest represents a rare occasion for ME.

So, after some experimentation with MTC today I honestly do not envision it having any value for ME. For full hooligans in limited settings (e.g., large, open parking lot), either you want DSC off, or not. The intermediate settings are of no advantage.

I CAN envision how a driver on a closed track might want to get a little ‘Chris Harris’ about things (e.g., drift around the track). Applying intermediate MTC settings could allow for such fun without ending up ‘off course.’ Then again, how many people have access to a closed track and, at the same time, hooligans are a priority over safely getting around the track at high speed???

SUMMARY: When safe enthusiasm is a priority, then MDM seems to represent an ideal setting. To ME, MDM is ideal for nearly every form of spirited roadway driving, whereas MTC does not currently appear to have any role.

///AVM

This is the conclusion I am coming to as well and will be skipping out on the $900 M-Drive option in my build.

[///AVM]

Interestingly, the topic of MTC and Drift Mode (M Drive Professional) is highlighted in the video below and topic of a new thread.

Couple related comments.

1. As seems pretty clear in the video below and recent AutoTopNL MT vs Competition video, the torque/power difference between the two models is not only witnessed on paper, but on the roadways as well . . . still, I have no doubt the MT is not remotely close to anything one would consider 'under powered.'

2. Although drifting and donuts are fun, they have almost no practical application on the roadways or track. So, as before, M Drive Professional is cool technology, but of no practical value.

Now I am sure someone out there might comment to the effect that 'nannies' are for pussies and it takes skill to drive a car with no/limited traction control . . . all I will is say is, 'have at it!'

///AVM

[ai388]

This is the ultimate thread!

I had a short drive of my friend's brand new M3C which I'm considering as my next vehicle. Coming from a M2 DCT and M2C DCT, I'm really torn with letting the M2C go. Absolutely my favourite car! The M2C setup is what I love about it. Short wheelbase, nimble, fixed suspension, DCT. Dry days - MDM mode, wet days - Sport Plus, S2 setting for both.

The M3C is noticeably bigger not as compact and more body roll but it has HUD, BSM, and a more luxury interior. My biggest fear is the transition from DCT to ZF8. I'm afraid I will miss those shifts and the S55 "whine" that some people don't like. I didn't put it in S3 setting with my friend's brand new car. Everything in the M3C felt so smooth, not much of the rawness from the M2C. The interior is very quiet, I can barely hear the stock exhaust. Will it open after the break-in period?

After reading all the posts in this thread, it gave me hope that S3 setting might be the deal breaker. (I've already looked past the front grille). Hope I can drive the M3C again to finalize my decision, but we'll see.

OP, thanks for your honest insights! Keep us updated

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by ai388

This is the ultimate thread!
. . . I'm really torn with letting the M2C go. Absolutely my favorite car!
. . . My biggest fear is the transition from DCT to ZF8. I'm afraid I will miss those shifts and the S55 "whine" that some people don't like.
. . . Everything in the M3C felt so smooth, not much of the rawness from the M2C. The interior is very quiet, I can barely hear the stock exhaust. Will it open after the break-in period?
. . . OP, thanks for your honest insights! Keep us updated

Thank you ai388. I only started the thread. . . it is nothing without the input of fellow enthusiasts.

Do not fear the DCT to ZF8 transition . . . ZF8 manual mode performance is just as effective and enjoyable as DCT; if you so choose, ZF8 automatic mode far superior to DCT.

S55 is indeed a fantastic engine. As far as acoustics go, I did have MPE with my M2C and enjoyed it. Nonetheless, as noted earlier in the thread, I most enjoy the sound of a wrung out engine - the symphony coming from under the hood.

PERSONALLY, the S58 is superior to the S55 in every way, including acoustics. S58 is more linear; more naturally aspirated-like except with incredible torque; what you and others aptly describe as being 'smoother.' In terms of exhaust acoustics, also more naturally aspirated-like; more rumble than whine.

The G80 exhaust is like any other . . . it will take a few thousand mile to come into its own. After 1,200 miles in my M3C, this evolution well underway; already a little deeper and louder.

The interior of the M2C is certainly more 'raw' than the G80 interior. I personally do not need or utilize all the bells and whistles; rare that I ever even turn on the stereo while driving. So, the M2C interior was more than adequate in my books . . . but the G80 is better. Particularly enjoy HUD and carbon fiber bucket seats.

Performance-wise, again, M2C was an awesome package. . . I enjoy the M3C more.

///AVM

[JDUNITNOW]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Interestingly, the topic of MTC and Drift Mode (M Drive Professional) is highlighted in the video below and topic of a new thread.

Couple related comments.

1. As seems pretty clear in the video below and recent AutoTopNL MT vs Competition video, the torque/power difference between the two models is not only witnessed on paper, but on the roadways as well . . . still, I have no doubt the MT is not remotely close to anything one would consider 'under powered.'

2. Although drifting and donuts are fun, they have almost no practical application on the roadways or track. So, as before, M Drive Professional is cool technology, but of no practical value.

Now I am sure someone out there might comment to the effect that 'nannies' are for pussies and it takes skill to drive a car with no/limited traction control . . . all I will is say is, 'have at it!'

///AVM

Great write up and you answered my questions I have concerns with. Coming from driving multiple 7 series, I've turned into a wimp. My younger years, all I have ever owned were stick shift 2 door, 2 seater cars and with family I migrated to 4 door automatic. Now I want a sportier car but not a stick and want a M3. I keep imagining me trying to be a hooligan again and slam into a curb or off the road.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by Wyndi335I

Great write up and you answered my questions I have concerns with. . . Now I want a sportier car but not a stick and want a M3. I keep imagining me trying to be a hooligan again and slam into a curb or off the road.

You got it Wyndi !!!

If you enjoy spirited daily driving, you will not be anything short of impressed with the G80 M3C.

When the hooligan in you does surface, MDM allows you to get plenty 'sideways' and 'spin the rear tires' . . . awareness and judgment is what keeps you off the curbs and on the road.

///AVM

[AndroidRobot]

I am a bit concerned about the transmission shift speed, after coming from the G05 X5 50i with the ZF8 which was good but then I traded it for a F87 M2 DCT which is simply amazing. I hope I'm not disappointed with the ZF8 in the G80 M3C AWD because I'm really looking forward to my car

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

I am a bit concerned about the transmission shift speed, after coming from the G05 X5 50i with the ZF8 which was good but then I traded it for a F87 M2 DCT which is simply amazing. I hope I'm not disappointed with the ZF8 in the G80 M3C AWD because I'm really looking forward to my car

Android

You can lay your mind to rest. I had the same concerns going in. . . ZF8 in the G80C will leave you with no 'wants' if you enjoyed DCT performance.

Lots of X5 and X3 model owners on this forum have indicated the ZF8 shifting is 'blah;' they are 'dogs' down low with lots of turbo lag . . . I am sure the X5 and X3 models are wonderful utility vehicles but they are not a G80/82.

BMW engineers know what they are doing when it comes to performance; the G80C offers next-level permanence . . . . although, in the realm of subjectivities, I will be the first to admit the design architects are not 'performing' at the same level.

As before, lots of G80/82 owners with real seat time on this forum and I have not yet come across one who is not thrilled with the performance each has to offer.

Conversely, all the 'negativity' seems to come from armchair quarterbacks who have 'test drove' or 'driven a friends' vehicle for an hour, or a day. I doubt most have ever driven one at all. The steering is not 'numb,' whatever that means. The notion of 'turbo lag' is a joke. I could go on . . . just tune out the pundits.

That said, no car is perfect, so I am not promoting perfection, nor that the G80/82 is for everyone. If, however, you are after a machine to meet your needs and interests toward spirited daily driving, the G80/82 will not disappoint. . . including the ZF8.

///AVM

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Android

You can lay your mind to rest. I had the same concerns going in. . . ZF8 in the G80C will leave you with no 'wants' if you enjoyed DCT performance.

Lots of X5 and X3 model owners on this forum have indicated the ZF8 shifting is 'blah;' they are 'dogs' down low with lots of turbo lag . . . I am sure the X5 and X3 models are wonderful utility vehicles but they are not a G80/82.

BMW engineers know what they are doing when it comes to performance; the G80C offers next-level permanence . . . . although, in the realm of subjectivities, I will be the first to admit the design architects are not 'performing' at the same level.

As before, lots of G80/82 owners with real seat time on this forum and I have not yet come across one who is not thrilled with the performance each has to offer.

Conversely, all the 'negativity' seems to come from armchair quarterbacks who have 'test drove' or 'driven a friends' vehicle for an hour, or a day. I doubt most have ever driven one at all. The steering is not 'numb,' whatever that means. The notion of 'turbo lag' is a joke. I could go on . . . just tune out the pundits.

That said, no car is perfect, so I am not promoting perfection, nor that the G80/82 is for everyone. If, however, you are after a machine to meet your needs and interests toward spirited daily driving, the G80/82 will not disappoint. . . including the ZF8.

///AVM

I am a very blunt person when it comes to things for better or worse. I like the ZF8, but the M-DCT is simply so much more fun. I've driven an F90 and wasn't impressed with the ZF8, so if it's anything like that I might be disappointed. I enjoy the drama of the DCT, it makes driving truly fun in a non-standard trans.

I'm not talking about anything other than how it shifts, turbo lag or whatever anyone else is complaining about is irrelevant tight now. I drive almost exclusively with the paddles and love every second of it. if I can't tap one and have an instant shift then it's going to disappoint me. Ylut simply cannot beat a DCT speed with a regular auto and that's what troubles me. I drove my old X5 50i the other day and remembered how slow it is in comparison. it's been a while since I drove the F90 but I wasn't impressed.

Now, don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean I won't love the G80, it only means I won't have as much fun as I do in my F87

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

I am a very blunt person when it comes to things for better or worse. . . Now, don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean I won't love the G80, it only means I won't have as much fun as I do in my F87

Android

Blunt does not bother me . . . so no worries there.

Of course, only you can decide what is fun, or more fun to you . . . for me, coming from the M2C DCT that I enjoyed the hell out of, the G80C offers an overall superior performance experience. ZF8 performance no different than DCT to ME. Actually, the ZF8 power shifts are better/stronger than with DCT.

Cannot speak of the paddles, as I have never used them; I like shifter engagement and FEELING the shifts through the shifter. Remnants of the MT fanboy in me. Nonetheless, I suspect the G80C paddles will be just fine if paddle shifting is your preference.

///AVM

[///AVM]

I wear sunglasses about as often as I turn the stereo on in my visceral driving machines. . . almost never.

So, beautiful, sunny evening hear in northern Midwest. Perfect occasion for a spirited drive to absolutely nowhere.

As already established, I am digging HUD; specifically, HUD tachometer function. Jump in. Start up. Hit M Mode button to activate SPORT view (tachometer).

Look up and HUD is barely visible. As though 'brightness' was turned all the way down. Went into settings and HUD brightness was right where I previously set it. I'm like, what the fuck?!

I then realized it was the first time I had gotten into G80C with sunglasses on. More specifically, polarized sunglasses . . . which I now know all but blocks out HUD.

Just an FYI for anyone who didn't already know this. Big deal? Only if you enjoy HUD and wearing polarized sunglasses simultaneous.

///AVM