[TruthOne]

Shouldn’t he be racing the CT5 Blackwing? CT 4 Blackwing is an M340 competitor and I believe it loses there too.

[Germanauto]

The CT4 is so ugly. The bustleback ass takes inspiration from the horrendous 2nd gen Seville

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by TruthOne

Shouldn’t he be racing the CT5 Blackwing? CT 4 Blackwing is an M340 competitor and I believe it loses there too.

The CT-5 Blackwing is a 668hp supercharged V8 and is also a price class higher. I have never driven any CT-4 but spent two days with a CT-5 Blackwing and I'm literally sad I can't afford to have one. It's one of the most perfect cars I've ever driven. Makes the M5 of any generation look like an absolute joke. Blackwing vs. F90 is almost comical, the Blackwing sounded better, had better suspension (more agile and more comfortable at the same time), manual available and it's actually a fantastic feeling manual, etc.

In this class, I'd take G80 M3 over the CT-4 because I know Cadillac's 6 cylinder engine sucks and the G80 is wonderful to drive. Enough to get past how much I hate its styling.

[E63M6_G42M240i]

Originally Posted by Remonster

Makes the M5 of any generation look like an absolute joke.

You do know that the M5 CS exists don’t you? While the 5 blackwing may be a touch more agile, it gets destroyed in any drag or roll race against it (even a comp). It does have a manual option though. Im a bimmer guy buy I’ll give credit to that caddie. You saying it makes an m5 cs an absolute joke is in fact AN ABSOLUTE JOKE.

[Casone238]

As my brother had the ATS-V and while the numbers and testing suggested that the ATS-V was better at putting the power down then the F80 M3 but I still preferred the M3, it was way more fun with the DCT which felt like it kicked you in the chest and the torquiness of the car was just way toooo fun. Even tho it lead to lighting up the tires.

As a side bar the CTS-V coupe was a blast as my brother owned that as well. However back in those days I would still went with the M6 coupe.

[Ilikemike]

Originally Posted by Kevin_The_Clean1

This makes me LMAO. The guy said the CT4 has a "superior" 6-speed tremec & it "feels" much better. Then gets easily embarrassed & walked on every attempt against the G80 M3. These cars are almost identical in weight. So CT4 must be really down on power + horrible gear ratios. Even a heat soaked S58 can't be beaten. Cadillac should hang it up, go back to the drawing board & stick to reminiscing about the glory days of the CTS-V.

The BMW’s rubbery, notch’s and vague manual transmission feel (think Fisher Price) is what the reviewer is referring to, not the actual performance numbers… When I changed mine to a short shift type with harder bushings the feel improved dramatically.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Ilikemike

The BMW’s rubbery, notch’s and vague manual transmission feel (think Fisher Price) is what the reviewer is referring to, not the actual performance numbers… When I changed mine to a short shift type with harder bushings the feel improved dramatically.

It’s almost like M skips that part of the car

[Sedan_Clan]

None of those Caddy’s look good at all.

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Originally Posted by Remonster

The CT-5 Blackwing is a 668hp supercharged V8 and is also a price class higher. I have never driven any CT-4 but spent two days with a CT-5 Blackwing and I'm literally sad I can't afford to have one. It's one of the most perfect cars I've ever driven. Makes the M5 of any generation look like an absolute joke. Blackwing vs. F90 is almost comical, the Blackwing sounded better, had better suspension (more agile and more comfortable at the same time), manual available and it's actually a fantastic feeling manual, etc.

In this class, I'd take G80 M3 over the CT-4 because I know Cadillac's 6 cylinder engine sucks and the G80 is wonderful to drive. Enough to get past how much I hate its styling.

Sure bud... whatever you say...

[TractionControlDelete]

7:50 is where the racing starts

[thaalrasha]

Well Cadillac is one of those brands that can't get sold outside the US... Like most US performance car, they didn't pass emission tests elsewhere to be distributed, so for people outside north America they are never even a possible choice unfortunately... But the M3 ain't that bad

[vj123]

To begin with, 4BW is in a whole different class than the M3 as base MSRP difference between these vehicles is around $13k for MY24 (63k vs 76k).

I am not a fan of 4BW looks but GM did an amazing job in putting together the whole BW package (4BW and 5BW). Anyone who has driven both these vehicles would agree that BWs have better driver engagement. GM has tried to recreate what BMWs did earlier (The Ultimate Driving Machine). Lot of passion has gone into the BWs as its solely developed with the driver in mind. One can read this article (LINK) where the engineers share their passion in creating these vehicles.

If one is judging vehicles by straightline performance, EVs would beat M3 hands down. Also BWs are not flashy and is a perfect vehicle for someone who wants to fly under the radar. Both vehicles have their own pro and cons and current gen BWs are no slouch when compared to the Ms.

[wesleyan92]

Originally Posted by Remonster

The CT-5 Blackwing is a 668hp supercharged V8 and is also a price class higher. I have never driven any CT-4 but spent two days with a CT-5 Blackwing and I'm literally sad I can't afford to have one. It's one of the most perfect cars I've ever driven. Makes the M5 of any generation look like an absolute joke. Blackwing vs. F90 is almost comical, the Blackwing sounded better, had better suspension (more agile and more comfortable at the same time), manual available and it's actually a fantastic feeling manual, etc.

In this class, I'd take G80 M3 over the CT-4 because I know Cadillac's 6 cylinder engine sucks and the G80 is wonderful to drive. Enough to get past how much I hate its styling.

You lost me at "makes all M5 of any generation look like an absolute joke"! Whatever, dude.

Let's play the "speak with your wallet" game again:

2023 (January to May) sales:
- CT5 4,593 units
- 5 series 7,536 units

2022 full year sales:
- CT5 15,896 units
- 5 series 20,857 units

I wish OEMs would break out the M and Blackwing numbers but I suspect the % difference would hold true and likely to be even more starkly shitty for the Cadillac.

Source: carfigures.com

[Hardeight27]

In all honesty, I love a GM powertrain. They make crazy power for the money and are almost bulletproof.

However, every GM vehicle chassis I have ever owned basically started to disintegrate halfway to 100K miles. Door handles would fail, AC compressors would implode, gauge clusters went blank, interior pieces would just fall off, suspension parts would need frequent replacements.

It's like GM says, "Hey we have a great running gear here, let's just surround it with the cheapest junk we can find..."
Even Cadillac isn't completely immune to this phenomenon.

[02M3ForMe]

Regarding “feel”, the trick they use with the Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio to make it feel the way it does is a super fast steering rack. Ratio on the QV is 11.9:1, uncharacteristically fast, like turning up mouse sensitivity speed sliders to the max. Not sure if they’re doing a similar thing with the Blackwing, can’t find the steering ratio quoted anywhere.

[AudiA4]

Originally Posted by wesleyan92

Wasted 15 minutes of my life and all the time I kept thinking of the clowns at Car and Driver who have appointed the Black Wing as the holy grail of this segment.

Cadillac and the CT line is completely irrelevant:

2023 (January to May) sales:
- CT4 2,711 units
- 3 series 6,571 units

2022 full year sales:
- CT4 9,720 units
- 3 series 30,400 units

Source: carfigures.com

Oh but wait, the chassis and handling of the CT4/5 Blacking is so ethereal. LOL.

Have you driven a CT4-V BW (especially a manual)? The difference is palpable. The M3 is a great car. So are both Blackwings.

Oh, and I’d say those Cadillac sales numbers are respectable given the market for sedans. Their sales were actually up over year prior, which I don’t think is the case for the 3-series.

[ChrisM4]

Originally Posted by Kevin_The_Clean1

This makes me LMAO. The guy said the CT4 has a "superior" 6-speed tremec & it "feels" much better. Then gets easily embarrassed & walked on every attempt against the G80 M3. These cars are almost identical in weight. So CT4 must be really down on power + horrible gear ratios. Even a heat soaked S58 can't be beaten. Cadillac should hang it up, go back to the drawing board & stick to reminiscing about the glory days of the CTS-V.

That TR6060 manual transmission is literally one of the best ever made. I’ve had it in two cars (Including a manual 2013 CTS-V Wagon)

The M3 is a better car in basically every way to the CT4 Blackwing but that TR6060 transmission is incredibly strong, shifts very well and can easily handle ~1K RWHP with a clutch.

A built trans/clutch combos can handle ~2K RWHP)

I own a manual ‘22 and love the car and transmission gearing but the linkage/shifting and overall strength of the trans is nowhere near that of the Tremec. It’s just a fact.

[MiamiFan13]

Both cars are badass and would put smiles on the faces of any "driving" enthusiast...let's just be real here.

Both cars fall short against each other in different ways. The Caddy needs a bump in power and the BMW needs a small facelift. Those who are mocking the looks of the Blackwing are hilarious when the G80's are un-ownable without a CSL/Vorsteiner grill. This is not even subjective.

I would take a G80 with a new grille..but would have fun with either.

[deneed4spd]

It’s funny how many diff models are brought into this argument when it’s originally posted for a CT4 vs M3. Maybe we should bring in a GTS also!

Just to throw in my 2 cents. The CT5 BW beat the amazing M5CS both around VIR (cd) and Sonoma (driven by Randy). So if the M5CS can beat the CT5BW in a straight line but CT5BW is a better track car, which is the ultimate driving car vs a dragster? Funny world we live in now.

[Damion]

ok i have to weight in, i own a CT5V and i have driven the CT4V as they are amazing examples that Cadillac has done and the over all comfort of the cars is on pair for a Cadillac, i will say am trading in my CT5V for the G80 for a number of reasons.
1. the aftermarket for the Caddy is just empty with no hope of life at this point.( even though HP Tuners just launched tunning software for the GM Global B ECU and TCU)
2. the community is way different then this one.
3. the customer service with the buying and maintenance is way different. i feel like you have a higher class experience with BMW.
4. the G80 is a completely higher level car and really Cadillac is just trying to catch up

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by thaalrasha

Well Cadillac is one of those brands that can't get sold outside the US... Like most US performance car, they didn't pass emission tests elsewhere to be distributed, so for people outside north America they are never even a possible choice unfortunately... But the M3 ain't that bad

Well, their garbage, when it comes to general reliability.

And in the resale category they’re next to the worst with almost all GM products.

[Panscan340]

Originally Posted by wesleyan92

You lost me at "makes all M5 of any generation look like an absolute joke"! Whatever, dude.

Let's play the "speak with your wallet" game again:

2023 (January to May) sales:
- CT5 4,593 units
- 5 series 7,536 units

2022 full year sales:
- CT5 15,896 units
- 5 series 20,857 units

I wish OEMs would break out the M and Blackwing numbers but I suspect the % difference would hold true and likely to be even more starkly shitty for the Cadillac.

Source: carfigures.com

Most of these are base models. I don’t understand how the success of the base model pertains anything to how good of a car the racy versions are. Weird thing to focus on.

No one says “my m3 is so sick bc they sell so many 330i. “

Honda sells way more accords, does that mean it’s better than a 530?