[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by flsupraguy

Sorry but I don't get it. Buy a comp and add ohlins and tune and you have 95% a "csl".....

That's what everyone said about the M2CS & M5CS and guess what!?

EVO PCOTY 2020 & 2021 beating, among others, the Lambo Huracan and the Porsche GT4RS

I wish you the best with your mods

[aj_g80]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

That's what everyone said about the M2CS & M5CS and guess what!?

EVO PCOTY 2020 & 2021 beating amongst others, the Lambo Huracan and the Porsche GT4RS

I wish you the best with your mods

This forum needs to stop comparing bmw's to real supercars. Its comical. There are levels to this car thing..

[WAB]

Originally Posted by TrentMeister

For real.. bmw are such idiots for making these lazy engines these days.

Like seriously only 700hp with a tune??

And what we can only hold 1200 hp with the stock bottom end??

I mean the x drive g8x is only doing 2.2 to 60.

How the mighty have fallen

I'm glad you get it. BMWs used to be good driver's cars, you know, like when you turn the wheel.

[icpee]

Originally Posted by WAB

Because the CSL is derived from a bloated family grocery getter and the GT3 is derived from motor sports. There's only so much lipstick you can put on a pig and call it a thoroughbred, or you can have an actual thoroughbred.

I'm not a BMW hater or Porsche fanboy. I've had everything from 1M, e36 m3, e90 m3, m2, f82… I just hate what BMW has done to M. They've gone soft, with lazy engines that are stuck with n SUV, they sound like a lawn mower, and have gotten so massive that handling at the track or country roads is a bit unnerving. Sure anyone can go in a straight line fast these days or do a donut, but overall the engineering money is being lorded over by accountants and the focus is margins, it feels and is a big company.

Then:
M = Motorsport

Now:
M = Money

All this over a line in an article that compares one car with another.

You need to calm down mate. It really is not that serious. You'll get comparisons all the time in almost every car review.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by WAB

Because the CSL is derived from a bloated family grocery getter and the GT3 is derived from motor sports. There's only so much lipstick you can put on a pig and call it a thoroughbred, or you can have an actual thoroughbred.

I'm not a BMW hater or Porsche fanboy. I've had everything from 1M, e36 m3, e90 m3, m2, f82… I just hate what BMW has done to M. They've gone soft, with lazy engines that are stuck with n SUV, they sound like a lawn mower, and have gotten so massive that handling at the track or country roads is a bit unnerving. Sure anyone can go in a straight line fast these days or do a donut, but overall the engineering money is being lorded over by accountants and the focus is margins, it feels and is a big company.

Then:
M = Motorsport

Now:
M = Money

I don't think BMW has gone soft, the engine is nearly a like for like for the engine in the M4 GT3 race car. Turbo charging doesn't equal laziness and NA high revving isn't the answer to all performance cars. Its just a different philosophy. BMW has never made dedicated sports cars, they've made sedan cars that M tunes into sports cars.

Porsche makes dedicated sports cars, but it didn't make a GT car brand until it realized it could make serious money by making meticulously engineered races cars for people to put in their garage to look at or drive to cars and coffee and chat about with their friends.

Its all about money. Porsche didn't make a brand new high-revving bespoke engine for a GT4, for example. They bored and stroked a turbocharged 911 engine and everyone went gaga for a place where they "cut corners". They've always been about making money, they make more money per car then almost all car brands.

I'll default back to my prior statement. As a car that is "fun to drive", the best M cars are better then all other cars (baring a few exceptions). They don't do it for free, but they also didn't cut corners for $140k with the CSL and other recent great M cars. They just did their best to apply the brands philosophy of turning regular cars into sports cars.

[WAB]

Originally Posted by aj_g80

This forum needs to stop comparing bmw's to real supercars. Its comical. There are levels to this car thing..

"Buy…but… I have 1 billion horsepowers"

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by icpee

All this over a line in an article that compares one car with another.

You need to calm down mate. It really is not that serious. You'll get comparisons all the time in almost every car review.

Lets not forget, the M5 CS dog-walked the 992 GT3 Touring in Evo Car of the Year last year. No contest choice by almost everyone in the group test of which car they would take.

So from a purchasing decision standpoint, its absolutely a valid comparison.

[WAB]

Originally Posted by icpee

All this over a line in an article that compares one car with another.

You need to calm down mate. It really is not that serious. You'll get comparisons all the time in almost every car review.

Cool mate, feel free to jump in with an original opinion

[TrentMeister]

Originally Posted by WAB

I'm glad you get it. BMWs used to be good driver's cars, you know, like when you turn the wheel.

Yeah man I just imagine a day when maybe BMW will have a car that has a GT3 version of it again…

Or christ what if they broke their all time N ring record with a new RWD car…

I guess we just have to dream

[icpee]

Originally Posted by WAB

Cool mate, feel free to jump in with an original opinion

Honestly I'm just saying you get car comparisons in almost all reviews online. BMW's best will inevitably be compared to that of the other german manufacturers or cars in its class.

It's not an issue to get into a debate over profit margins, motorsport history etc. because as we all know times change and priorities for these car manufaturers change with it.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by WAB

"Buy…but… I have 1 billion horsepowers"

Just curious, if BMWs are soooooo bad, why are you both here WAB and aj_g80

[WAB]

Originally Posted by TrentMeister

Yeah man I just imagine a day when maybe BMW will have a car that has a GT3 version of it again…

Or christ what if they broke their all time N ring record with a new RWD car…

I guess we just have to dream

Yeah and that GT3 version BMw wins races like the e30 did and gets close to 7min n ring by 2030

[WAB]

Originally Posted by icpee

Honestly I'm just saying you get car comparisons in almost all reviews online. BMW's best will inevitably be compared to that of the other german manufacturers or cars in its class.

It's not an issue to get into a debate over profit margins, motorsport history etc. because as we all know times change and priorities for these car manufaturers change with it.

Honestly, why not compare the CSL to the GT4 or 911 GTS. Lazy journalism? No, C&D know which car models get more clicks so they went with gt3

[ScullyD]

Not sure what we're arguing about anymore in this thread. Personally i can afford to buy a GT3, but i'm buying a CSL instead. People like us exist, and we have valid reasons for our purchasing decisions. Carry on, its a valid comparison for where you put dollars in cars.

[edwinm3]

I've owned, tracked many M cars since the 90's, loyal customer to the bmw brand since but by reading the comments here I can tell most of you never tracked or driven any porsche GT cars

[SoCali E36]

M4 GTS 2.0

[WAB]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Just curious, if BMWs are soooooo bad, why are you both here WAB and aj_g80

Hopefully BMW reads this stuff and thinks about what they've done

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by WAB

Hopefully BMW reads this stuff and thinks about what they've done

That was the most amusing thing you've said all day

10/10 my friend

[JDUNITNOW]

Who cares if Porsche makes a better car. BMW must be doing something right if they are compared to Porsche. The G80 and F90 M5 are great cars and both serve a purpose and meet the majority of customers needs and if not they wouldn't be selling them. For the few that come on the board to bash the product wouldn't buy one anyway so their opinions don't matter much. M cars are not built for the quarter mile although some mod them for that purpose. Not meant to track significantly either unless you got deep pockets.
Porsche is like Rolex now, you have to pay ridiculous money to have either. Most wealthy not rich people will not spend their money on these items, they just bet on when it all turns to shit and they can come in and scoop it up at pennies on the dollar.

[flsupraguy]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

That's what everyone said about the M2CS & M5CS and guess what!?

EVO PCOTY 2020 & 2021 beating amongst others, the Lambo Huracan and the Porsche GT4RS

I wish you the best with your mods

[flsupraguy]

Originally Posted by edwinm3

I've owned, tracked many M cars since the 90's, loyal customer to the bmw brand since but by reading the comments here I can tell most of you never tracked or driven any porsche GT cars

Tracked all of mine and also own a cup car. Most m3 owners I know don't track and most Porsche owners I know do.....

I plan to take my new m3 to Sebring a few times but will likely be disappointed compared to the gt3 on track.

[flsupraguy]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Lets not forget, the M5 CS dog-walked the 992 GT3 Touring in Evo Car of the Year last year. No contest choice by almost everyone in the group test of which car they would take.

So from a purchasing decision standpoint, its absolutely a valid comparison.

a touring absolutely annihilate a m5cs on a large track. It's one thing to post a hero lap time, another to do it reliably lap after lap. The m5 is too heavy and would crush its brakes after a few laps but most people here only read magazines and have never been to a road course......