[pfl]

Originally Posted by WAB

Jeez, BMW and Porsche GT3 should not be mentioned in the same article.

Agreed.

[BMWnation]

Originally Posted by pfl

Agreed.

Why? I had a GT3 now manual M4 and love it with a few mods. If you have not owned both, folks tend to over speculate

[MachinesWithSouls]

This is a car to impress your mates at the next Sunday morning meet.

It's meant to give F82 GTS owners a sad face. If they make 1,000, maybe 1% see the track.

Still, if you have the cash, and you love M…why not?

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by WAB

Jeez, BMW and Porsche GT3 should not be mentioned in the same article.

Dumb mentality.

When E46 and E92 M3's were being compared to Porsche's, everyone is crying why BMW can't go back to that - build sportier cars. Now when something gets compared to Porsche, it shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence? Which one is it? You want a sporty car or not?

Or maybe it's just the trendy thing to say "Porsche is t3h bestest! Nothing can rival or be better than Porsche!"

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by MachinesWithSouls

This is a car to impress your mates at the next Sunday morning meet.

It's meant to give F82 GTS owners a sad face. If they make 1,000, maybe 1% see the track.

Still, if you have the cash, and you love M…why not?

I still believe the best M cars are more fun to drive then the best P cars and probably all other cars (i'll say the GT4 RS, like the GT3 RS 4.0, are exceptions to that). Not track times, not rarity, etc. Just out and out fun factor. If you've owned enough NA high revving cars, shifting to 9k redline on public roads gets boring really quick.

This car seems to be another situation where that is the case (fun factor above all else). I don't think anyone will be impressed by someone showing up having spent $140k on an M4 with red stripes. And if you want to track a car, there are better cars to track.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

I still believe the best M cars are more fun to drive then the best P cars and probably all other cars. Not track times, not rarity, etc. Just out and out fun factor.

This car seems to be another situation where that is the case.

I've haven't been fortunate to drive a Porsche GT car but I could believe what you're saying. The same was said about M3's to AMG's - C63's were just more flat out fun relative to the more clinical M3.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

I've haven't been fortunate to drive a Porsche GT car but I could believe what you're saying. The same was said about M3's to AMG's - C63's were just more flat out fun relative to the more clinical M3.

Absolutely, the C63 was definitely more fun than the E92 M3 (Which is one of the most overrated M cars ever, but people still seek them out just for the engine note). I like Matt from OG, but he has tuned an E92 to sound like a GT500 and just revs it to redline on B roads. That is similar to what the majority of people do with GT cars.

Also the F82 M4 GTS was a great car, no one getting a sad face with that. Its just alot of work to set-up the suspension for street use and the test cars had set-up issues (this was detailed in a now deleted DriveTribe article). Henry Catchpole at Evo Car of the Year said "the thrill this car provides is unmatched" and voted it 1st over the 911R.

The best M Cars will always be more fun to drive than any other car you can buy from any company.....fight me on that lol.

[Kstoff125]

I've got an F80 M4 comp, carbon ceramics and the m performance wheel tire package (PS cup 2s). It's a 6spd that I have tuned to a stage two, let's estimate close to 600hp at the crank. The car is pretty raw and engaging and is surprisingly quick. Im curious how much different the g80 csl is when talking about speed and engagement.

I have not driven a g80 yet, but have heard nothing but great things about the chassis and car itself.

[WAB]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Dumb mentality.

When E46 and E92 M3's were being compared to Porsche's, everyone is crying why BMW can't go back to that - build sportier cars. Now when something gets compared to Porsche, it shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence? Which one is it? You want a sporty car or not?

Or maybe it's just the trendy thing to say "Porsche is t3h bestest! Nothing can rival or be better than Porsche!"

Read my post again, comparing the GT3 and anything BMW makes is hilarious.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by WAB

Read my post again, comparing the GT3 and anything BMW makes is hilarious.

Again, why? Why is it so absurd to mention BMW in the same sentence as Porsche or a GT3? No one says the car is or has to be better than the GT3 but has traits that can rival it. We did it with the E46 M3 and to a lesser extent, the E92 M3 as a value proposition. Why suddenly is so wrong to do it? BMW shouldn't be capable to make a limited production sports car when they focus on SUVs?

[WAB]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Again, why? Why is it so absurd to mention BMW in the same sentence as Porsche or a GT3? No one says the car is or has to be better than the GT3 but has traits that can rival it. We did it with the E46 M3 and to a lesser extent, the E92 M3 as a value proposition. Why suddenly is so wrong to do it? BMW shouldn't be capable to make a limited production sports car when they focus on SUVs?

Because the CSL is derived from a bloated family grocery getter and the GT3 is derived from motor sports. There's only so much lipstick you can put on a pig and call it a thoroughbred, or you can have an actual thoroughbred.

I'm not a BMW hater or Porsche fanboy. I've had everything from 1M, e36 m3, e90 m3, m2, f82… I just hate what BMW has done to M. They've gone soft, with lazy engines that are stuck with n SUV, they sound like a lawn mower, and have gotten so massive that handling at the track or country roads is a bit unnerving. Sure anyone can go in a straight line fast these days or do a donut, but overall the engineering money is being lorded over by accountants and the focus is margins, it feels and is a big company.

Then:
M = Motorsport

Now:
M = Money

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Gizmo 335i

Makes it sound like the GT3 rides like an S class in comparison.



yea thats what i was trying to elude to... making it seem like this is some completely stripped out race car. lol. it still weighs 3600.

Then you should go buy the new C63 - a lightweight elephant for sure

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Kstoff125

I've got an F80 M4 comp, carbon ceramics and the m performance wheel tire package (PS cup 2s). It's a 6spd that I have tuned to a stage two, let's estimate close to 600hp at the crank. The car is pretty raw and engaging and is surprisingly quick. Im curious how much different the g80 csl is when talking about speed and engagement.

I have not driven a g80 yet, but have heard nothing but great things about the chassis and car itself.

You mean G82 CSL, right?

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by WAB

Because the CSL is derived from a bloated family grocery getter and the GT3 is derived from motor sports. There's only so much lipstick you can put on a pig and call it a thoroughbred, or you can have an actual thoroughbred.

I'm not a BMW hater or Porsche fanboy. I've had everything from 1M, e36 m3, e90 m3, m2, f82… I just hate what BMW has done to M. They've gone soft, with lazy engines that are stuck with n SUV, they sound like a lawn mower, and have gotten so massive that handling at the track or country roads is a bit unnerving. Sure anyone can go in a straight line fast these days or do a donut, but overall the engineering money is being lorded over by accountants and the focus is margins, it feels and is a big company.

Then:
M = Motorsport

Now:
M = Money

Show me one manufacturer which isn't about profit margins please, including Porsche!

Bugatti uses the same car, bolts on a new cabin, produces a few and charges millions more for each. Why is BMW scorned for following the same philosophy (if indeed that is what they have done)?

Everyone has an opinion on everything. If we want what was once great to remain the greatest forever, there is only one way to do that - stop the arrow of time!!!

Good luck with your future acquisition

[Kstoff125]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

You mean G82 CSL, right?

Correct. I just refer to them as the f80, g80…I realize they split the designation between the m3 and m4…I'm still stuck on calling them all m3's…one has two doors, one has four

[flsupraguy]

Sorry but I don't get it. Buy a comp and add ohlins and tune and you have 95% a "csl".....

[WAB]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Show me one manufacturer which isn't about profit margins please, including Porsche!

Bugatti uses the same car, bolts on a new cabin, produces a few and charges millions more for each. Why is BMW scorned for following the same philosophy (if indeed that is what they have done)?

Everyone has an opinion on everything. If we want what was once great to remain the greatest forever, there is only one way to do that - stop the arrow of time!!!

Good luck with your future acquisition

You picked 1 word out of my post instead of reading everything else.

[edwinm3]

Nice car but I love how everyone's always trying to be or beat the gt3.

[flsupraguy]

Originally Posted by WAB

Because the CSL is derived from a bloated family grocery getter and the GT3 is derived from motor sports. There's only so much lipstick you can put on a pig and call it a thoroughbred, or you can have an actual thoroughbred.

I'm not a BMW hater or Porsche fanboy. I've had everything from 1M, e36 m3, e90 m3, m2, f82… I just hate what BMW has done to M. They've gone soft, with lazy engines that are stuck with n SUV, they sound like a lawn mower, and have gotten so massive that handling at the track or country roads is a bit unnerving. Sure anyone can go in a straight line fast these days or do a donut, but overall the engineering money is being lorded over by accountants and the focus is margins, it feels and is a big company.

Then:
M = Motorsport

Now:
M = Money

This times x100. The new "csl" is like buying a 911 gts and calling it a "gt3"... Atleast in the gt3 you get the motorsport engine, tuning, aero, etc.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by WAB

You picked 1 word out of my post instead of reading everything else.

No I didn't.

Your entire argument is about putting lipstick on a pig - I'm suggesting it happens more often than you're willing to admit.

In the 70s, the 3.0 CSL was THE BMW of all time - then came the E30 and E46 and and and ....

Horses for courses my friend.

In an era where cars produce insane levels of power and performance, where 0.01 Sec faster means the world to a bunch of folks who will almost assuredly never test those limits, in a world where the average sports car weighs almost twice as much as it did two or three generations ago, everything is relative.

These are the times we live in - that was MY message which I obviously failed to convey properly.

Please accept my apologies

[adc]

Originally Posted by Gizmo 335i

Makes it sound like the GT3 rides like an S class in comparison.

The way I understand it from someone who owns a new GT3, it is much harsher than previous generations including the RS variants. It my have lost some of the magic carpet ride in an effort to chase lap times.

The vexing bit is that the CSL seems to be quite a bit slower than a GT3 around a racetrack. While it may be the most exciting M offering currently, I’m just not sure who the audience is.

Well it’s sold out apparently so perhaps irrelevant.


At $140k I’d vote for a GT4 RS for myself. In fact, perhaps even an older GT4 with DeMan mods to savor the manual transmission.

[TrentMeister]

Originally Posted by WAB

Because the CSL is derived from a bloated family grocery getter and the GT3 is derived from motor sports. There's only so much lipstick you can put on a pig and call it a thoroughbred, or you can have an actual thoroughbred.

I'm not a BMW hater or Porsche fanboy. I've had everything from 1M, e36 m3, e90 m3, m2, f82… I just hate what BMW has done to M. They've gone soft, with lazy engines that are stuck with n SUV, they sound like a lawn mower, and have gotten so massive that handling at the track or country roads is a bit unnerving. Sure anyone can go in a straight line fast these days or do a donut, but overall the engineering money is being lorded over by accountants and the focus is margins, it feels and is a big company.

Then:
M = Motorsport

Now:
M = Money

For real.. bmw are such idiots for making these lazy engines these days.

Like seriously only 700hp with a tune??

And what we can only hold 1200 hp with the stock bottom end??

I mean the x drive g8x is only doing 2.2 to 60.

How the mighty have fallen