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      01-10-2021, 11:21 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by N54MPower View Post
The only Porsche anyone looking at cross-shopping against a G8X is a Macan Turbo or base Cayenne. New Porsche GT cars are not close in price to the G8X, and non GT 911's are closer in price to an M5 Competition. In a world of electric cars and SUVs, the M3/M4 offers a unique package and continues to be despite MB, Audi's efforts, etc.

These aren't apples to apple comparisons. They are knee jerk reactions to a change. I get it; humans don't like change. I'm sure BMW M will lose a few customers just as Porsche did when they went from air to water-cooled, but overall I'm willing to bet that BMW will be fine.
Fair points. In the days of pandemics and recessions though, the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. I think there'll be some folks who'll be able to afford that 911 over the M3 this time around.
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      01-11-2021, 09:07 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by RinconHeat View Post
This simply isn't true. There are plenty of slightly older Porsche models that price compared with the hideous new BMW models. Furthermore, nearly ANY professional driver or enthusiast will and have gone on record to say that the 911 and largely the 718 are superior drivers cars (m2cs aside).
What's not true? That Porsche does not make a new car with a similar performance level and practicality at the same price as the G8X? Your answer just proved the point I was making. If we're comparing used cars, then that opens up a world of options. As I said, that is not an apple to apple comparison. In addition to which most G8X's in North America will be leased from new with incentives that subsidize the barrier to entry for most. Porsche, Audi, and MB aren't nearly as aggressive on the lease deals as BMW. That's not even an option on a used car.

Furthermore, a car that is designed as a sports car from the beginning should, in fact, be a better driver's car than a car designed as an everyday passenger car that is then modified to be a performance variant. Yes, every Ferrari, Lamborghini, or Porsche sports car I've driven are superior driver's cars as they should be. None offers the package and performance that the M3/M4 offers at a relatively affordable price. You don't like the grill, don't buy it. I don't love it either, but that's not the point.
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      01-11-2021, 09:23 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by No Boost View Post
Fair points. In the days of pandemics and recessions though, the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. I think there'll be some folks who'll be able to afford that 911 over the M3 this time around.
Fortunes ebb and flow, much like car design changes over time. I don't make the same amount I did when I was 18, so I can afford many nicer things. There will always be opportunities for some. Of course, there will be people who previously owned an F8X or E9X that are in a financial position to afford a 911. That is not the same as a mass exodus of new BMW M owners that were waiting for the release of the G8X to jump into a car that is 10's of thousands more expensive than the G8X new and used. As some of the M owners leave, there'll be new ones to take their place. More of that ebb and flow.
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      01-11-2021, 12:59 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by No Boost View Post
Fair points. In the days of pandemics and recessions though, the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. I think there'll be some folks who'll be able to afford that 911 over the M3 this time around.
I suspect quite a few here can afford the 911, it’s more about practicality and value. As per value I believe the 911 has narrowed the gap somewhat with the 992 where the base model no longer feel under powered and an M3 is closing up on $80k.

If your main goal is a sports car a stripper 992 base is now an acceptable value in the US IMO. The M3 still beats it handily as value though and in some other countries the 911 is still unattainable for most.

Once the G8X capabilities become more evident I think it will be as well received buy fans as earlier models.
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      01-11-2021, 04:50 PM   #49
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Once the G8X capabilities become more evident I think it will be as well received buy fans as earlier models.
This is the million dollar question. It will be capable, no doubt. But, will it's heft and size sour some people's driving experiences, regardless of the car's immense power and skidpad capabilities and lap times. It's grown by what, 5.5 inches and multiple hundreds of pounds? Just throwing out an example, I'd rather drive a 300 hp/3000 lb car than a 600 hp/6000 lb uber-SUV, both having the same power:weight ratio. Who knows, maybe the new breed of enthusiast wants excessive power and torque with a cockpit having more buttons than a commercial airplane. Everything else be damned.
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      01-11-2021, 05:44 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by No Boost View Post
This is the million-dollar question. It will be capable, no doubt. But, will it's heft and size sour some people's driving experiences, regardless of the car's immense power and skidpad capabilities and lap times. It's grown by what, 5.5 inches and multiple hundreds of pounds? Just throwing out an example, I'd rather drive a 300 hp/3000 lb car than a 600 hp/6000 lb uber-SUV, both having the same power:weight ratio. Who knows, maybe the new breed of enthusiast wants excessive power and torque with a cockpit having more buttons than a commercial airplane. Everything else be damned.
As much as we like to think that the core BMW M buyer is a hardcore enthusiast, the reality is far from the truth. Whilst the M brand probably has a greater amount of "enthusiasts" than MB AMG. Most of the first time owners of these cars aren't going to notice the weight difference or care. They are interested in buying a car that's different enough from a 330 or M340i and faster. They're not going to the track or sophisticated enough to tell the difference between hydraulic steering or electric. They are buying into a brand the way people buy iPhones or LV bags.

The percentage of new M owners that take their car to any track is probably less than 5%. The driving experience probably referred to is on track. Who's buying a new G8X as a dedicated track car? No one. Anything other than a purpose-built race car is a compromise.

The current make up of cars (design, weight, etc.) is a response to what most people want, emissions, and safety regulations. The hardcore is owner is a minority amongst customers. BMW is a business; if it wants to grow and thrive, it has to meet those demands whether we like it or not.
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      01-11-2021, 05:58 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Boost View Post
This is the million dollar question. It will be capable, no doubt. But, will it's heft and size sour some people's driving experiences, regardless of the car's immense power and skidpad capabilities and lap times. It's grown by what, 5.5 inches and multiple hundreds of pounds? Just throwing out an example, I'd rather drive a 300 hp/3000 lb car than a 600 hp/6000 lb uber-SUV, both having the same power:weight ratio. Who knows, maybe the new breed of enthusiast wants excessive power and torque with a cockpit having more buttons than a commercial airplane. Everything else be damned.
With the latest HQ video we have less than 200 lbs weight gain. It’s longer and wider for sure but it’s not been a smallish car since the E46. I doubt it will turn off any significant numbers vs the satisfaction of what sounds like a very big performance upgrade. The only references we’ve gotten is much faster and partly faster than the M4 GTS. That’s no small improvement and 150-200 lbs extra might not be that big of a deal to most in the end.
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      01-12-2021, 02:14 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
I suspect quite a few here can afford the 911, it’s more about practicality and value. As per value I believe the 911 has narrowed the gap somewhat with the 992 where the base model no longer feel under powered and an M3 is closing up on $80k.

If your main goal is a sports car a stripper 992 base is now an acceptable value in the US IMO. The M3 still beats it handily as value though and in some other countries the 911 is still unattainable for most.

Once the G8X capabilities become more evident I think it will be as well received buy fans as earlier models.
I can afford cars far more expensive than the G80, yet I choose the M3 this gen and the last gen. I love the looks. No 911 under a GT3 looks as good as a G80 to me (cant wait to see how people react to that).

I put a lot of miles on cars. 18-22k miles/year. That's why I dont have GT3. I refuse to spend that amount on a car and only drive it on weekends.
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