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      10-24-2020, 07:06 AM   #1
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Why I think BMW knows better than the grill haters

BMW has definitely stared down the grill haters.

Here's the thing though - most complaining are going on about their love of the older designs and their dislike of the new colours, partnerships with lifestyle brands and hyper aggressive grills.

BMW knows full well the M3 makes its brand. Future generations are giving up on cars. You have to appeal to them to give your brand legs going forward. And they are doing that ten times over - after all they only get to launch a new M3 every 7 years.

The older M buyers can retreat to a M5 or SUV or go back hardcore to a M2. The brand will live on through their hyped up M3 marketing.

And that's why they're smarter than the complainers.
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      10-24-2020, 09:26 AM   #2
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yea but the issue is the marketing is trash. Who are they appealing to again? 20-something year -old's during a pandemic when many of the target demo are losing employment, many of which have already been saddled with student loan debt and are underemployed? Doesn't seem like good marketing.

I don't think young people care about german enthusiast cars in general, its all Elon and Tesla, and no amount of targeted marketing is going to reverse that trend. They just did themselves a disservice with that target demographic. Because there aren't that many young people that have an extra 80K-90K laying around.

And I'm not counting Silicon Valley, because they are electric focused anyway.
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      10-24-2020, 09:29 AM   #3
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When you think of BMW, at least for me, I think M3 before anything else. Now what helps BMW in the M3/M4 segment is that to get a luxury sports car with a manual and this price range is rare. The only other vehicle that will offer manual that is a direct competitor to the M3 is the Cadillac Blackwing which I am curiously waiting for. Even though I am leaning toward the G80. I think in the end the M3 will drive and handle better than the BW and be more refined...even though the BW in my opinion will look the part better than the G80. I'll be waiting patiently...
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      10-24-2020, 11:23 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
yea but the issue is the marketing is trash. Who are they appealing to again? 20-something year -old's during a pandemic when many of the target demo are losing employment, many of which have already been saddled with student loan debt and are underemployed? Doesn't seem like good marketing.

I don't think young people care about german enthusiast cars in general, its all Elon and Tesla, and no amount of targeted marketing is going to reverse that trend. They just did themselves a disservice with that target demographic. Because there aren't that many young people that have an extra 80K-90K laying around.

And I'm not counting Silicon Valley, because they are electric focused anyway.
not 100% true. Some of us support elon and TSLA and think electrification makes sense from a business standpoint, and traded a fraction of our gains from TSLA for a german car.

and speaking with my local BMW dealer...youngest buyer was late 30s and most people are 50+ buying / preordering for their retirement car.

i also work in silicon valley. not all of us are electric loving hippies
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      10-24-2020, 11:32 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
BMW has definitely stared down the grill haters.

Here's the thing though - most complaining are going on about their love of the older designs and their dislike of the new colours, partnerships with lifestyle brands and hyper aggressive grills.

BMW knows full well the M3 makes its brand. Future generations are giving up on cars. You have to appeal to them to give your brand legs going forward. And they are doing that ten times over - after all they only get to launch a new M3 every 7 years.

The older M buyers can retreat to a M5 or SUV or go back hardcore to a M2. The brand will live on through their hyped up M3 marketing.

And that's why they're smarter than the complainers.
$40 billion dollar international reputable manufacturer does their market research and has professionals who do their jobs...

color me surprised!!!

/s

Last edited by Avaley; 10-24-2020 at 01:52 PM..
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      10-24-2020, 12:50 PM   #6
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Ive stated lots of times, ever since we first saw the launch/spy car. A lot of people who complain about the grill will still end up getting one. Yes there is some hate and that's totally cool and I respect that, but as you can see as time goes on more and more on here are changing their mind.
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      10-24-2020, 01:06 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by GOLFFRR View Post
Ive stated lots of times, ever since we first saw the launch/spy car. A lot of people who complain about the grill will still end up getting one. Yes there is some hate and that's totally cool and I respect that, but as you can see as time goes on more and more on here are changing their mind.
No they are all banned
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      10-24-2020, 01:09 PM   #8
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I understand the car world is changing but to market a demographic with less income and desire for an ///M car vs the "traditional" demographic is silly IMO.

Edit: time will tell if this is a smart decision. I'm betting it's not
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      10-24-2020, 01:14 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
No they are all banned
taking a page from mainstream media eh?
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      10-24-2020, 01:17 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
I understand the car world is changing but to market a demographic with less income and desire for an ///M car vs the "traditional" demographic is silly IMO.

Edit: time will tell if this is a smart decision. I'm betting it's not
Like actually betting as in you are shorting BMW stock?

If so DM me as I would like to discuss your rationale / am working on some market research...
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      10-24-2020, 01:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
I understand the car world is changing but to market a demographic with less income and desire for an ///M car vs the "traditional" demographic is silly IMO.

Edit: time will tell if this is a smart decision. I'm betting it's not
Like actually betting as in you are shorting BMW stock?

If so DM me as I would like to discuss your rationale / am working on some market research...
No skin in the game financially. Just betting that this car doesn't sell/do very well.

FYI. Many long time members have been banned from posting in The G8x sections so it appears this car is growing on people but I can assure you it's not.
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      10-24-2020, 01:23 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
No skin in the game financially. Just betting that this car doesn't sell/do very well.

FYI. Many long time members have been banned from posting in The G8x sections so it appears this car is growing on people but I can assure you it's not.
Current stock price is actually interesting to go long on as I feel like the price already reflects poor sales...however I don't think luxury sports auto sales will do well at al in the next few years so am in agreement that BMWs in general don't sell well.

I also don't think the grille controversy helps but time will tell!
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      10-24-2020, 01:32 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
Like actually betting as in you are shorting BMW stock?

If so DM me as I would like to discuss your rationale / am working on some market research...
This doesn't have anything to do with literally shorting the stock. The point is that young people as a whole do not have this kind of money. They also, as a whole, do not care about german sport sedans in 2020 when they are more sold on the idea of autonomous driving.

The nature of the market is changing and BMW should realize this and push towards greater electrification.
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      10-24-2020, 01:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
No skin in the game financially. Just betting that this car doesn't sell/do very well.

FYI. Many long time members have been banned from posting in The G8x sections so it appears this car is growing on people but I can assure you it's not.
Current stock price is actually interesting to go long on as I feel like the price already reflects poor sales...however I don't think luxury sports auto sales will do well at al in the next few years so am in agreement that BMWs in general don't sell well.

I also don't think the grille controversy helps but time will tell!
It's quite the risk for BMW to make this kinda move on their "Halo" ///M car. I would have advised against it. Alienating your core enthusiasts with money doesn't sound like a very good business move. Sure some will stay but this car puts a stain on the ///M brand regardless of the 0-60 time.
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      10-24-2020, 01:38 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
This doesn't have anything to do with literally shorting the stock. The point is that young people as a whole do not have this kind of money. They also, as a whole, do not care about german sport sedans in 2020 when they are more sold on the idea of autonomous driving.

The nature of the market is changing and BMW should realize this and push towards greater electrification.
If one is going to state you are betting on this not doing well, i think you should put your money where your mouth is and short the stock if you so firmly believe it otherwise you are leaving money on the table.

isn't electrification exactly what every single german auto mfg is doing? like you think Porsche and BMW CEOs looked at the performance of TSLA stock and been like nahhhhh lets only spend R&D money on ICU engines....meanwhile i4m has been spotted, audi has an etron, porsche has a taycan and is planning to electrify the cayman?

clearly people just want to use this forum to bitch instead of analyze and have good discussions...

edit: to be clear...the germans are way behind imo but they will catch up on electrification and in a few years, will sell better electric cars than TSLA, this is my position and full disclosure I am long on TSLA, VWG and BMW.
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      10-24-2020, 01:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
BMW has definitely stared down the grill haters.

Here's the thing though - most complaining are going on about their love of the older designs and their dislike of the new colours, partnerships with lifestyle brands and hyper aggressive grills.

BMW knows full well the M3 makes its brand. Future generations are giving up on cars. You have to appeal to them to give your brand legs going forward. And they are doing that ten times over - after all they only get to launch a new M3 every 7 years.

The older M buyers can retreat to a M5 or SUV or go back hardcore to a M2. The brand will live on through their hyped up M3 marketing.

And that's why they're smarter than the complainers.
All these are fair points and brands do have to reinvent themselves from time to time. Time will tell whether becoming a lifestyle brand is the right decision over sticking to driving and motorsports.

Personally, i have my own lifestyle brands and I’d like to see BMW double down on motoring and do something like take Honda’s place as an F1 engine supplier. But they won’t, and rightly so - hypebeasts are a much bigger market than F1 fans.

But couldn’t they have made the G8x flamboyant but not ugly? Even if your strategy is good, you still have to nail the execution. Lamborghini at this point is more of a lifestyle brand itself, and they don’t make ugly cars.
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      10-24-2020, 01:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
Like actually betting as in you are shorting BMW stock?

If so DM me as I would like to discuss your rationale / am working on some market research...
This doesn't have anything to do with literally shorting the stock. The point is that young people as a whole do not have this kind of money. They also, as a whole, do not care about german sport sedans in 2020 when they are more sold on the idea of autonomous driving.

The nature of the market is changing and BMW should realize this and push towards greater electrification.
Agree but I still think there is a "space" for both ICE and EV. We will see what they do with EV soon enough but ICE isn't looking good.

A buddy with older kids just bought a Tesla after owning a shit ton of Audi's. His kids (20 somethings) are all over it. It's almost like he got the Tesla because of their influence.
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      10-24-2020, 01:41 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
It's quite the risk for BMW to make this kinda move on their "Halo" ///M car. I would have advised against it. Alienating your core enthusiasts with money doesn't sound like a very good business move. Sure some will stay but this car puts a stain on the ///M brand regardless of the 0-60 time.
100%...traditional auto industry is in for some pain during this transition period
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      10-24-2020, 01:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
It's quite the risk for BMW to make this kinda move on their "Halo" ///M car. I would have advised against it. Alienating your core enthusiasts with money doesn't sound like a very good business move. Sure some will stay but this car puts a stain on the ///M brand regardless of the 0-60 time.
100%...traditional auto industry is in for some pain during this transition period
On this we agree. I think covid is putting and going to put a hurting on the auto industry for quite some time. People aren't buying cars like they were before the virus.
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      10-24-2020, 01:45 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Agree but I still think there is a "space" for both ICE and EV. We will see what they do with EV soon enough but ICE isn't looking good.

A buddy with older kids just bought a Tesla after owning a shit ton of Audi's. His kids (20 somethings) are all over it. It's almost like he got the Tesla because of their influence.
this has happened to my friends of my parents (50s) but not all the younger generation loves Teslas, i'm in my 20s and imo other than nice software, instant torque and self driving, a model 3 is severely lacking in emotional enjoyment and build quality. I think the Taycan is superior to the Model S in every way other than software, range and $.

i actually think most of the weight gain is because the market now wants a do it all car with all the latest tech and comforts.

edit: i'm in the minority and most my peers think Musk is our savior

Last edited by Avaley; 10-24-2020 at 02:01 PM..
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      10-24-2020, 01:59 PM   #21
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On this we agree. I think covid is putting and going to put a hurting on the auto industry for quite some time. People aren't buying cars like they were before the virus.
When I was on wall street covering the auto industry a few years ago, autos were already selling poorly and in decline, a recession definitely didn't help but somehow used car transactions by volume and YoY prices are up close to double digits.

I recall average age of vehicle at the time was 12 years, and most financial investors in the auto industry targeted auto service, online marketplace retailers, aftermarket retail or specialty vehicles and not tier1/2/3 suppliers.

I would have said the rise of the gig economy could have helped car sales but COVID changed that, however, interestingly enough the importance of having your own car has never been higher.

I imagine we will have answers to all these questions in approximately 2023.
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      10-24-2020, 02:09 PM   #22
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I think Chris Harris was right in the idea that in a year's time it might grow on everyone and people will warm up to it. It is such a drastic change that it will take a little time, most of us have not even seen it in the flesh let alone rolling down the street.

If it is true what some are saying that Asian markets like larger grilles.

It might be as simple as China prefers larger grilles, the vocal US enthusiast appreciates a manual transmission, so let's appease our 2 largest markets.
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