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      12-23-2020, 12:59 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by codestar View Post
I think he was referring to the pilot alpin pa4 tires. I have them as well and they are fantastic. I don't know if they come in SUV sizes though
Good point, though on Michelin’s homepage it looks like they bunch together Pilot and Latitude Alpin in terms of capabilities/character.
And from pictures I can see that the Pilot Alpin share the rounded edge with the Latitude Alpin.

Have you experienced start from still in a foot or more of new snow with your setup? I would suspect the rounded edges might not cut through enough and struggle doing that at incline. Also start moving side to side instead of forward.

“The MICHELIN® PILOT® Alpin® and Latitude® Alpin® Performance Winter / Snow tires combine responsive handling with the ability to grip through snow and ice. Their rubber compounds remain flexible in cold temperatures while their tread designs bite through snow and ice, as well as maintain excellent levels of wet and dry road traction in severe cold weather conditions.

The MICHELIN® X-Ice® Xi3® and Latitude® X-Ice® Xi2 Studless Ice & Snow tires feature special winter rubber compounds that help deliver the necessary traction in a variety of winter driving conditions without compromising tread life.”
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      12-23-2020, 02:59 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Sorry for going off-topic for this comment but is that Latitude Alpin? I’m on the fence between Latitude Alpin and X-Ice for our Cayenne. As you I’m an avid skier and I venture to backcountry access roads where the traction of All-seasons can get a bit sketchy after heavy snow falls even with the rear diff and AWD transfer case locked.

I’m leaning X-Ice due to the square edges providing a better cut through deep snow but the Alpins better road manner on clear roads is tempting. How do you rate the Alpins in a foot of new snow?
I'm running x ice 3 on the S4 right now ... longevity is fantastic and when it gets really nasty on the ground theres no problems.

Downside is dry road traction is rather lackluster. I know it's an Audi, but the car understeers easily on any loopy on-ramps pushing say >60kph, considerably more than summer setup with conti sport contact 6; car does have the mechanical torque vectoring diff fwiw too
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      12-23-2020, 03:16 PM   #47
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I have tried lots of snow tires....PA4 tires on dry roads are amazing, they truly handles as if you did not have snow tires on your car, but they do not bite as much in deep snow and ice. I prefer the dry road performance over the grip and bite in nasty conditions. Just my $.02
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      12-23-2020, 03:32 PM   #48
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I'm waiting for AWD so I can put all the power down I'm going to make !!!

If i was keeping it stock Id still go awd unless BMW figured out how to put more power down to the road. The F80 just spin way to much on a cold road or inclement conditions.
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      12-23-2020, 03:35 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
I have tried lots of snow tires....PA4 tires on dry roads are amazing, they truly handles as if you did not have snow tires on your car, but they do not bite as much in deep snow and ice. I prefer the dry road performance over the grip and bite in nasty conditions. Just my $.02
Thanks, obviously I do to since I never used snow tires at all on the SUVs or my M3s. However I now sometimes bring my kids out in the backcountry and I want to avoid letting them wait while I’m shoveling after a long day out. It’s amazing what the Cayenne can do with All seasons and it’s multi level lockable AWD system but in really deep stuff on mountain forest roads it happens that the shovel need to come out.

So when I’m going through the trouble to swap for 3 months I definately will look 80% at snow and ice capabilities but I also don’t want the car to ride like a truck on all terrains...
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      12-23-2020, 03:50 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecemberStorm View Post
I'm running x ice 3 on the S4 right now ... longevity is fantastic and when it gets really nasty on the ground theres no problems.

Downside is dry road traction is rather lackluster. I know it's an Audi, but the car understeers easily on any loopy on-ramps pushing say >60kph, considerably more than summer setup with conti sport contact 6; car does have the mechanical torque vectoring diff fwiw too
Thanks, that’s good information. That definitely works for me, just curious how the Alpin does in comparison in the deep stuff. Seem seis-speed answered that as well, ok but not great as expected. So X-ice it is on the Cayenne 3 months a year. The M3 stays on summers all year as they all have the 20 years I lived in Seattle
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      12-24-2020, 02:26 PM   #51
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6MT + awd but since It won't happen i don't really know which one i will let go first.
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      12-24-2020, 06:31 PM   #52
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Am I missing something here? Doesn't the awd m drive have the option of going into rwd mode with a flick of a button? In that case, I'd take an awd with manual if possible.
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      12-24-2020, 08:25 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Parabolica View Post
Am I missing something here? Doesn't the awd m drive have the option of going into rwd mode with a flick of a button? In that case, I'd take an awd with manual if possible.
Looks like manual cars are rwd only. AWD cars will be auto only but not sure if it will have Mx drive to allow for rwd mode.
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      12-25-2020, 04:44 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
Looks like manual cars are rwd only. AWD cars will be auto only but not sure if it will have Mx drive to allow for rwd mode.
The AWD concept of the M3/M4 (G80/G82) is that same as in the M5 (F90). So you could switch between 4WD, 4WD Sport and 2WD. The AWD in the M3/M4 (G80/G82) as of today comes only with ZF8 Auto and not with manual. Hope that helps...
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      12-26-2020, 08:39 AM   #55
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I've owned 911 AWD and RWD. And owned R8 AWD and RWD.

AWD front end will feel more glued to the road, and offer slightly less feedback. But will give you more confidence to mash the pedal.

RWD I'm always concerned to floor it since no safety net of AWD. RWD front end will feel a little "lighter" and lively, and the rear end will feel more pronounced in hard cornering, like it wants to kick out.

Trump card for the M3 is manual only = RWD.

Its really hard to say which is "better". In my case I prefer RWD for the extra involvement and feel in exchange for lost launch traction.
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      12-27-2020, 10:51 AM   #56
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I've been wanting an AWD M3 since forever because in my environment, roads are wet and/or cold at least 50% of the year. I also have to navigate hills everywhere I go and driving in snow is a real possibility. Tires go a long way with RWD but with AWD and proper tires I have traction at all times and drive like a boss in every condition.

I'm still on the fence about G80 though. It's everything I want from a power and drivetrain perspective but it's a large car and front end is still ugly although has grown on me a lot. I'm holding false hope that G87 will have an M xDrive option but when it doesn't then I'll probably get into a G80.
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      12-27-2020, 10:06 PM   #57
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If you eventually plan to tune the S58, AWD is a MUST!
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      12-28-2020, 01:27 AM   #58
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AWD if it's my only car RWD if I have something else at the time
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      12-28-2020, 06:35 AM   #59
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Like all of your feedbacks so far...

I see mostly AWD as kind of expected. I am still Team RWD with a March delivery (hopefully March) and pretty confident it will be the best M3/M4 so far.
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      12-28-2020, 09:43 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Enthusiast View Post
Like all of your feedbacks so far...

I see mostly AWD as kind of expected. I am still Team RWD with a March delivery (hopefully March) and pretty confident it will be the best M3/M4 so far.
I have also ordered a RWD G80. I'm expected to take delivery sometime in March as well. I plan to just through some snow tires on it as I do with my current cars. I only drive through snowy areas of Germany every now and then anyways.
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      12-28-2020, 12:55 PM   #61
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RWD if I lived where there was little or no snow. Since I don't, AWD for winter confidence.
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      12-30-2020, 05:41 PM   #62
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Definitely RWD for me. Dont want the extra weight and dont care about the performance from a dig. Track my car about 5 times a year, so really prefer the lesser weight. Also I love to drive fast on countryside roads.
We have one xdrive X1 in our family, so thats enough all wheel drive for me
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      01-06-2021, 08:18 PM   #63
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I want an AWD one.

I've owned a lot of modified AWD cars and honestly, in 99% of situations they are just better. I had an evo w/ 450 whp, a full bolt on Audi S4 etc before getting my F80 M3. My car is stage 2 and sucks up to 60 mph, no traction and basically dont get boost until 3rd gear. Would rather just have AWD for fun launches from traffic lights. Also its better in the snow!
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      01-07-2021, 05:42 PM   #64
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AWD for sure.
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      01-24-2021, 08:04 AM   #65
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I have never owned an AWD vehicle so I am not qualified at all to present any opinions for or against. However, I have heard many favorable opinions about it. Coincidently, just the other day I took my girlfriends car to the garage for tire rotation and balance. Another customer, who drove an AWD car, had a flat tire due to road debris. The tech told her that since the vehicle was AWD the 3 remaining tires needed to be replaced. The tread life on the other tires were above the min’s ( estimated 5 to 7/32’s). I asked the tech why the replacement requirement. He stated that given the tread difference between the old tires and new one the AWD system would not perform correctly and over time would adversely affect the functioning of the system which will also lead to very costly repairs. Again, not knowing much about the AWD system I found this info very interesting. Is this true or false? I do recognize if this situation existed on a RWD car there will be some handling differences but it would not necessarily adversely affect the [long term] driveability of the car (non-track situations).
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      01-24-2021, 08:25 AM   #66
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I"m having this debate along with the manual vs. auto, which I guess goes hand in hand since there is no AWD manual.

For me:

Pros of manual & RWD:
- More driver engagement
- More opportunity to kick the back out
- Cheaper

Cons of manual & RWD:
- My wife won't be able to drive it (although this could be a pro.........)
- Harder to put the power on the ground
- Unpredictability of Chicago winters means I could be caught with my pants down on a random April snowstorm after a stretch of 50 degree days where I decided to put summer tires back on. AWD would help mitigate some of that.
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