[turbojg]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

Dumb hypothetical argument ^^ You-re reaching.

Most times when something penetrates PPF you’re looking at an insurance claim.

If there is no PPF for a scratch it's still going to be an insurance claim. The fact that now (with the PPF) the insurance claim is twice what it would have been doesn't help our insurance rates.

The problem is that you don't want to admit that there are a lot of situations where the PPF isn't indestructible and doesn't prevent a repair or paintwork. If you're that confident that it does would you allow me to take a key to a section of your car with PPF on it???

If you're the type of person who gets the front of their car blasted with stone chips it probably is a perfect solution. And if having it on your vehicle makes you feel better - by all means, spend your money for it.

[emthreepa]

It's absolutely worth it.

[turbojg]

Originally Posted by emthreepa

It's absolutely worth it.

Can you explain?

[utsteve98]

It’s really about stonechips. I’ve had cars with no ppf and they accumulate stonechips over time. I’ve had cars with ppf and didn’t get stonechips. If stonechips don’t matter to you then don’t get ppf and save money. It’s really that simple. Below is an extreme example but using it to make a point.

[metalbmxer]

Originally Posted by turbojg

I've been on here for just over a year and know some of them (like PPF for example) but because the writer doesn't want to take a couple seconds (for a one time usage) to spell out the words I (and a lot others) can spend many minutes trying to figure out what they mean. And yes, because of the context in this type of forum the acronym doesn't mean anything close to the common usage so looking it up online doesn't help.

As I said... I would be even willing to look up the meaning in a list if it was available here. I'm sure there are a lot of new people joining the forum each day that could benefit from it. I'l speculate that a lot of those people won't bother asking and the meaning of the writer's statement is lost.

I get it yeah it's just the color abbreviations....TR toronto red, but i will say i read mixed reviews about getting red PPF'd but after getting it done, it is just so amazing to have the stealth PPF on. no regrets whatsoever

[BroDoze]

Originally Posted by turbojg

If there is no PPF for a scratch it's still going to be an insurance claim. The fact that now (with the PPF) the insurance claim is twice what it would have been doesn't help our insurance rates.

The problem is that you don't want to admit that there are a lot of situations where the PPF isn't indestructible and doesn't prevent a repair or paintwork. If you're that confident that it does would you allow me to take a key to a section of your car with PPF on it???

If you're the type of person who gets the front of their car blasted with stone chips it probably is a perfect solution. And if having it on your vehicle makes you feel better - by all means, spend your money for it.

Reaching again. I don’t go around planning for my car to get keyed. So that doesn’t work. Of course PPF wouldn’t save that. Did you seriously bring up that our rates would increase? LOL That argument is a non-starter. Whether they have to cover just paint or paint + PPF will have ZERO bearing when they continue to raise all of our rates. They’re all going to go up whether or not you decided for or against PPF.

[turbojg]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

Whether they have to cover just paint or paint + PPF will have ZERO bearing when they continue to raise all of our rates. They’re all going to go up whether or not you decided for or against PPF.

Yes, there are rate increases because of employee salary increases, other inflationary operating costs, but increases in repair costs are just as big of a factor in the rates we pay to insure our BMWs. My wife drove a new Subaru Legacy and I drove a new Subaru Outback. My Outback had a much higher MSRP than my wife's Legacy but her insurance rate was much higher. When I called to find out why that was I was told that for whatever reason repair costs were higher on the Legacy.

I saw the same thing where I worked where health insurance rates were astronomical compared to other areas and other companies because we had a large number of obese workers, smokers, and others who had health issues because of their life style and were a greater burden on the health care system.

I see the cost of health care as 3 points on a triangle. The 1st is the person, the 2nd is the health care provider and the 3rd is the insurance companies. 1st - People are less healthy. Just look at how many people are obese and live unhealthy life styles and demand health care for every little thing and live on medications. The 2nd is the health care system as costs are sky rocketing because the system is over burdened and doctors and hospitals are getting sued more than ever. People are demanding higher technology equipment and treatments. This problem is so bad that doctors are leaving the practice as their operating costs are unbearable. The 3rd is the Insurance companies who are caught in the middle of all this and as with any other business need to turn a profit. Unfortunately when people pay more they in turn demand more and the cycle continues and continues to accelerate. But fundamentally it is number 1 (the people) that started this cost avalanche because they cannot see the consequences of their actions and continue to blame everyone else.

So keep telling yourself that it doesn't matter and it's everyone else's fault for higher insurance rates.

[BroDoze]

It doesn’t matter and it's everyone else's fault for higher insurance rates.

[BroDoze]

“Hey everybody, all of our insurance premiums are going up this next 6mo renewal. Sorry - this one’s on me. I PPF’d my front bumper. It was a selfish decision.”

[turbojg]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

“Hey everybody, all of our insurance premiums are going up this next 6mo renewal. Sorry - this one’s on me. I PPF’d my front bumper. It was a selfish decision.”

You finally said something of value.

Reminds me of when election time comes along and people who believe they can have everything for nothing vote for the politician promising free health care, free college tuition, high paying jobs, a higher class of living etc. because they think someone else will pay for it only to find out in the long run that someone is themselves.

[BroDoze]

Originally Posted by turbojg

You finally said something of value.

Reminds me of when election time comes along and people who believe they can have everything for nothing vote for the politician promising free health care, free college tuition, high paying jobs, a higher class of living etc. because they think someone else will pay for it only to find out in the long run that someone is themselves.

Just STFU…

[yourvillageidiot]

I was in the same boat re: not knowing whether to get PPF or not. I ended up getting partial (full front hood, rocker panels, A-pillars, etc..).

Turns out in the first 100 miles, on the way to the PPF place, I had already gotten 2 small rock chips near the emblem. Hopefully the image attaches.

As had been said prior in this thread, this decision depends on the following:

1. How you would feel about rock chips (I didn't think I would care a lot until they happened).
2. How likely it is that you will get rock chips (As a function of where you will be driving and driving style/frequency).
3. How much you would be willing to spend to visually protect a 80-100k purchase (and there is no right answer there imo).

Everyone can give their individual opinions, but ultimately it is really about what sits well with you. For me at least, next time I purchase a car that I really care about, I'm going to flat bed it to a PPF place.

[junki]

Man the drama and politics in this thread are weird.

PPF is a personal decision that depends entirely on how much pin-sized rock chips over time bother you.

I have a 11 year old F30. I got it in my 20s to replace my Z4 because my gf at the time wanted us to go out with friends. I daillied it for most of its life across three metro areas and two states. It has no protection and was washed very infrequently. In fact, I just park it in the rain whenever I feel like it needs a rinse.

A month ago, I had it detailed for the first time. It basically looks new, except for a handful of very small paint chips in a few places on the rear and front bumper. The rear one was from loading and pulling big luggage out of the trunk who knows how many times over the years. The front ones were from some accidental curb abrasions that happened years ago. I don't remember seeing pinpoint rock chips, but I'm sure there are a few somewhere.

At this point, if I really wanted to, I could ask my local shop to paint the bumpers, and it'd cost about $600 to do it. I don't care though, so it's not worth doing. None of these 3-4 small paint chips affect how much Carvana or dealers would pay for the car.

At the end of the day, PPF is for folks who feel their car is very precious, who examine their cars up close and in detail on a regularly basis, and who just can't stand spotting tiny imperfections in the paint during their ownership journey. Otherwise, doing full repaint of affected parts in 10+ years is objectively more financially sensible and will achieve better results.

Personally, I don't baby my cars, and I don't buy cars I have to baby. So, it's really a personal decision.

[Slowphiveo]

It's an individual choice. There is no right or wrong answer. If you personally feel it's worth the expense and it's a benefit, have at it. If not...awesome, its your car. Not sure why anyone really cares about someone else's opinion on the matter? For me personally, its worth it. I'm OCD about rock chips and I plan on keeping the car for a bit. If getting PPF helps reduce my chances of a rock chip by even 50% or 60% it's worth it...to me. To others, maybe not? That's cool. As far as insurance goes, I have some first hand experience on this. Had some clown back into my old M2 in a parking lot and broke the front bumper cover. Had to file an insurance claim as a result because the dude didn't want to pay out of pocket. Insurance covered the repair but told me to shit in a hat about the PPF and didn't cover it.

[BroDoze]

I don’t know what insurance carrier you have but USAA covers it all, and then some. I’ve had probably 4 separate instances of this. They even cover mods done, with receipts.
Who cares if you can repaint the car 10 years down the road. For one, there’s zero chance of it being cheaper, second, you have to live with road rash for 10 years on your cars. “Tiny imperfections” isn’t a thing in CO. You can see the damage from 10+ feet away or more. The road gravel here just wrecks the front end of cars here. And they’re usually wrecked after just a few winters. Damage begins the second you pull it off the lot.
But yeah, thread has ran it’s course.

[turbojg]

Just to be clear... I am not against PPF. I thought long and hard about getting it done before, and recently after getting my 2024 M4 Comp X and I agree it is a personal choice. I had a lot of reasons for not getting it (at all) personally which I won't get into.

However, it bothers me when people come on here looking for advice on if they should get something done and they are bombarded with one side of the issue because a lot of people feel that just because they got something done everyone else should. I wish I had a broader perspective of the plusses and minuses of PPF available to me when making my decision as I was more interested in doing the right thing for me rather than following the crowd.

Therefore, I often come on here and play 'devils advocate' and end up emphasizing the less talked about and generally more controversial side. As to be expected I generally end up getting shunned by the less open minded individuals who don't like their ideas challanged... and instead of a rational discussion it turns into an emotionally charged attack on me. (e.g. Just STFU…) But that's OK. I try to not let it affect me.

I personally think debate is good and if kept rational is always beneficial to everyone involved. You cannot have a debate with just one view so I will often choose an apposing view in a discussion to help motivate debate on a subject in hopes of new ideas being brought to the surface. I just don't want my motives to be misinterpreted.

[Slowphiveo]

Originally Posted by turbojg

Just to be clear... I am not against PPF. I thought long and hard about getting it done before, and recently after getting my 2024 M4 Comp X and I agree it is a personal choice. I had a lot of reasons for not getting it (at all) personally which I won't get into.

However, it bothers me when people come on here looking for advice on if they should get something done and they are bombarded with one side of the issue because a lot of people feel that just because they got something done everyone else should. I wish I had a broader perspective of the plusses and minuses of PPF available to me when making my decision as I was more interested in doing the right thing for me rather than following the crowd.

Therefore, I often come on here and play 'devils advocate' and end up emphasizing the less talked about and generally more controversial side. As to be expected I generally end up getting shunned by the less open minded individuals who don't like their ideas challanged... and instead of a rational discussion it turns into an emotionally charged attack on me. (e.g. Just STFU…) But that's OK. I try to not let it affect me.

I personally think debate is good and if kept rational is always beneficial to everyone involved. You cannot have a debate with just one view so I will often choose an apposing view in a discussion to help motivate debate on a subject in hopes of new ideas being brought to the surface. I just don't want my motives to be misinterpreted.

All good! People should be offering their opinions of why they did or did not do (insert whatever the question or topic may be). In most cases, with something as subjective as car mods, options, etc. there is no right or wrong answer. Unfortunately it's just a microcosm of our society in general. Everyone seems to get pushed into a corner of my way or their way...and neither side is usually right. I think the anonymity that social media/forums offer, has gone a long way toward the dissolution of common politeness and courtesy. People say things on here that they would never say to the person if they were standing face to face. It's sad, but the reality of the world at this point.

[turbojg]

Originally Posted by Slowphiveo

All good! People should be offering their opinions of why they did or did not do (insert whatever the question or topic may be). In most cases, with something as subjective as car mods, options, etc. there is no right or wrong answer. Unfortunately it's just a microcosm of our society in general. Everyone seems to get pushed into a corner of my way or their way...and neither side is usually right. I think the anonymity that social media/forums offer, has gone a long way toward the dissolution of common politeness and courtesy. People say things on here that they would never say to the person if they were standing face to face. It's sad, but the reality of the world at this point.

I agree wholeheartedly.

In most cases the purpose of a discussion or debate is to resolve between right or wrong. In those situations each person should be more interested in discovering the 'truth' rather than being 'right'. Even when I am wrong I still feel good about it as I have learned something and can correct a misconception. Some times convictions are firmly implanted but the parties must keep an open mind and willing to concede if they realize they are wrong. Sometimes the method of resolving the issue cannot be reached and the parties must be willing to 'agree to disagree' until a method of resolving the issue can be found. However, nothing upsets me more than when someone walks away from a disagreement with me unwilling to take the time to resolve it.

But there are cases (like with PPF) where the 'right' or 'wrong' applies to an individual and their individual situation. In these cases the debate generally can bring out points the other person didn't know of or consider. But the important part is to keep emotions out of the discussion and just offer up and discuss rationally, points for consideration.

Unfortunately, more and more people are being trained (since birth) to act on their emotions rather than reason. But with that being said... emotions are an important tool for people when they need an immediate answer or have to act quickly and don't have time to analyze the situation. But a rational person will train his emotions to coincide with his rational thought and when he does have the time to analyze the situation he will have made the same decision or taken the same action.

[BroDoze]

Originally Posted by turbojg

I agree wholeheartedly.

In most cases the purpose of a discussion or debate is to resolve between right or wrong. In those situations each person should be more interested in discovering the 'truth' rather than being 'right'. Even when I am wrong I still feel good about it as I have learned something and can correct a misconception. Some times convictions are firmly implanted but the parties must keep an open mind and willing to concede if they realize they are wrong. Sometimes the method of resolving the issue cannot be reached and the parties must be willing to 'agree to disagree' until a method of resolving the issue can be found. However, nothing upsets me more than when someone walks away from a disagreement with me unwilling to take the time to resolve it.

But there are cases (like with PPF) where the 'right' or 'wrong' applies to an individual and their individual situation. In these cases the debate generally can bring out points the other person didn't know of or consider. But the important part is to keep emotions out of the discussion and just offer up and discuss rationally, points for consideration.

Unfortunately, more and more people are being trained (since birth) to act on their emotions rather than reason. But with that being said... emotions are an important tool for people when they need an immediate answer or have to act quickly and don't have time to analyze the situation. But a rational person will train his emotions to coincide with his rational thought and when he does have the time to analyze the situation he will have made the same decision or taken the same action.

Keep digging the hole dude. You kept pressing and pressing on the utterly irrational, nonsensical insurance argument. Grasping for anything, no matter how minute to justify your position on the matter, when it has nothing to do with the decision. And then you’d press some more, doubling down. You had it coming.

[geddylee]

BMW factory paint is truly bad these days, I feel like there are chips in the first month of ownership of all modern BMW’s I have owned. My IS500 however has no PPF or Ceramic coating and still looks perfect after 5k miles.

I’d opt for the PPF on an M car.

[Gang80]

I don’t wear condoms and I never will.

[turbojg]

Originally Posted by Gang80

I don’t wear condoms and I never will.

HaHa! That's so funny because that was one of my exact thoughts when I was considering getting PPF.