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      04-12-2021, 10:08 AM   #45
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Sunroof really? If they do a CSL with a sunroof then that's the final nail in the coffin for me and BMW.

Hoping it's just a parts bins special mule...
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      04-12-2021, 10:18 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by jkap27 View Post
The Camaro has a supercharged V8 and like 0 trunk space or rear room and the non 1LE version will still have a slower lap time than the M4 lol The 1LE version has a gigantic spoiler to generate additional downforce that maybe BMW will add to a G8x at some point. Anything in the 7:2X range would be absolutely ridiculous for the M3/M4 and the rumored time seems to be in that range. If the G8x is as fast as the outgoing m4 csl how fast is this csl version gonna be
Of course that's obvious, but you have to remember the fastest M4 the GTS with its track aero ran a 7:27.88. The non 1LE Camaro ran a 7:29.60. That's far to close especially considering the M4 cost $133,000. The fact is BMW needs to do better full stop. This new G82 better run a low 7:20 or high 7:19 if not it's an embarrassment.
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      04-12-2021, 10:20 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
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Originally Posted by jkap27 View Post
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Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR View Post
Why are M3/M4s so slow around the ring. With the engineering teams they have Munich they should constantly be getting trashed by the guys over at GM. The M4 has got to be able to keep pace with the Camaro.
The Camaro has a supercharged V8 and like 0 trunk space or rear room and the non 1LE version will still have a slower lap time than the M4 lol The 1LE version has a gigantic spoiler to generate additional downforce that maybe BMW will add to a G8x at some point. Anything in the 7:2X range would be absolutely ridiculous for the M3/M4 and the rumored time seems to be in that range. If the G8x is as fast as the outgoing m4 csl how fast is this csl version gonna be
G82 M4 Comp factory time of 7:28-29 and expected Sport Auto Supertest time of 7:34-7:37 😉

According to our inside source 👍
That's around 10 seconds slower than it should be.
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      04-12-2021, 10:29 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
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Originally Posted by jkap27 View Post
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Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR View Post
Why are M3/M4s so slow around the ring. With the engineering teams they have Munich they should constantly be getting trashed by the guys over at GM. The M4 has got to be able to keep pace with the Camaro.
The Camaro has a supercharged V8 and like 0 trunk space or rear room and the non 1LE version will still have a slower lap time than the M4 lol The 1LE version has a gigantic spoiler to generate additional downforce that maybe BMW will add to a G8x at some point. Anything in the 7:2X range would be absolutely ridiculous for the M3/M4 and the rumored time seems to be in that range. If the G8x is as fast as the outgoing m4 csl how fast is this csl version gonna be
G82 M4 Comp factory time of 7:28-29 and expected Sport Auto Supertest time of 7:34-7:37 😉

According to our inside source 👍
2017 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 finished a lap of Nürburgring Nordschleife in 7 minutes and 29.6 seconds. This was accomplished four and half years ago. If developed, a 2022 Camarillo ZL1 could be ever faster.

Nurburgring times are fun but Porsche and Mercedes kick our BMW butts.

Still, I like the progress BMW is making. Every bit helps making our cars fun to drive.
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      04-12-2021, 10:36 AM   #49
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I'm surprised they aren't saving the CSL for later in the life cycle. It looks very promising!
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      04-12-2021, 10:37 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GerryM5 View Post
2017 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 finished a lap of Nürburgring Nordschleife in 7 minutes and 29.6 seconds. This was accomplished four and half years ago. If developed, a 2022 Camarillo ZL1 could be ever faster.

Nurburgring times are fun but Porsche and Mercedes kicks our BMW butts.

Still, I like the progress BMW is making. Every bit helps making our cars fun to drive.
Are we really comparing the G82 M4 Comp with a 650hp special model???

The F82 M4 GTS did a 7:28 factory lap time in 2016. That is a better comparison with the ZL1
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      04-12-2021, 10:42 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR View Post
That's around 10 seconds slower than it should be.
Should the std M4 Comp set a lap time just as fast as the 991.2 Porsche GT3?

I think that is expecting a bit much for the Jack of all trades base model of the M4... The special models like the CSL however... ��
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      04-12-2021, 10:46 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR View Post
Why are M3/M4s so slow around the ring. With the engineering teams they have Munich they should constantly be getting trashed by the guys over at GM. The M4 has got to be able to keep pace with the Camaro.
Honest question, why? Camaro is about inexpensive speed and is definitely top of the heap there. That platform has become the focus of GM's street/track development while the Corvette has become their GT platform. The ZL1 is an absolute monster and maybe the CSL should be able to top it on the ring, but for the SS 1LE platform, who cares? There is always something faster available, all you have to do is remove the things that make a car usable on a daily basis.

For the standard M3/4 Ring times are inconsequential. They are so fast now that most of the performance is unusable on the street 90% of the time. Turning a 7:30 Ring time is absolutely insane for a street car and I would argue that focusing on track times has actually taken away some of the things that make a car enjoyable to drive.

Then again, maybe I am just old.
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      04-12-2021, 10:49 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR View Post
Why are M3/M4s so slow around the ring. With the engineering teams they have Munich they should constantly be getting trashed by the guys over at GM. The M4 has got to be able to keep pace with the Camaro.
Do you know what lap time a Camaro SS without the 1LE package does around the Nurburgring? I haven't found a time for that variant after a very quick search but that's what you should compare to an M3 or M4. That's the car that has similar suspension comfort and similar tires.

The ZL1 is on another planet with 650hp and the 1LE package ruins the car for street use to achieve the lap times. The Goodyear Supercar 3R tires that a ZL1 1LE uses are just barely street legal, take an eternity to warm up, and don't even last a single track day in the hands of a fast driver. I have two customers who wrecked their ZL1 1LEs on lap 1 of their track day because those tires are so sketchy before they heat up.

The ZL1 1LE is honestly one of my favorite cars to drive at any price point (I like it more than my previous E92 or F80 M3s) but it's insane to try to compare its laptime to a G80/G82.
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      04-12-2021, 11:08 AM   #54
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This new gen CSL was a front bumper away from being truly legendary. It'll be wicked f'in fast regardless.
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      04-12-2021, 11:08 AM   #55
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Add the USA to that comment too please
Added! I suspect USA is not a priority for M Touring model unless there is a grass roots petition in motion with down payment checks in an escrow account.
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      04-12-2021, 11:10 AM   #56
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Here's to hoping they have a better idea of the hood.
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      04-12-2021, 11:17 AM   #57
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Wow, much more restraint than I thought. Love the big integrated trunk duck tail for a clean look paying huge homage to the E46 CSL design but it’s also really surprising that forego adjustable aero. It looks sick just as the price tag will make me look...

Last edited by solstice; 04-12-2021 at 11:33 AM..
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      04-12-2021, 11:21 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
Honest question, why? Camaro is about inexpensive speed and is definitely top of the heap there. That platform has become the focus of GM's street/track development while the Corvette has become their GT platform. The ZL1 is an absolute monster and maybe the CSL should be able to top it on the ring, but for the SS 1LE platform, who cares? There is always something faster available, all you have to do is remove the things that make a car usable on a daily basis.

For the standard M3/4 Ring times are inconsequential. They are so fast now that most of the performance is unusable on the street 90% of the time. Turning a 7:30 Ring time is absolutely insane for a street car and I would argue that focusing on track times has actually taken away some of the things that make a car enjoyable to drive.

Then again, maybe I am just old.
The F82 M4 GTS did a faster lap in 2016 with 7:28 (factory lap time).
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      04-12-2021, 11:30 AM   #59
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      04-12-2021, 11:32 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
Are we really comparing the G82 M4 Comp with a 650hp special model???

The F82 M4 GTS did a 7:28 factory lap time in 2016. That is a better comparison with the ZL1
The GTS was a special model. Something is obviously not clicking.
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      04-12-2021, 11:39 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR View Post
The GTS was a special model. Something is obviously not clicking.
Yes, both the F82 M4 GTS and the Camaro ZL1 was special models (with the ZL1 having 150hp more than the GTS).

The 2016 GTS set a 7:28 factory lap time

Now the base entry level G82 M4 Comp reportedly laps at 7:28-7:29

What isn't clicking?
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      04-12-2021, 11:39 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
Do you know what lap time a Camaro SS without the 1LE package does around the Nurburgring? I haven't found a time for that variant after a very quick search but that's what you should compare to an M3 or M4. That's the car that has similar suspension comfort and similar tires.

The ZL1 is on another planet with 650hp and the 1LE package ruins the car for street use to achieve the lap times. The Goodyear Supercar 3R tires that a ZL1 1LE uses are just barely street legal, take an eternity to warm up, and don't even last a single track day in the hands of a fast driver. I have two customers who wrecked their ZL1 1LEs on lap 1 of their track day because those tires are so sketchy before they heat up.

The ZL1 1LE is honestly one of my favorite cars to drive at any price point (I like it more than my previous E92 or F80 M3s) but it's insane to try to compare its laptime to a G80/G82.
Let's not forget the ZL1 without the 1LE package barely got beat buy a fully stripped out M4 that needs to be filled with water every few miles.
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      04-12-2021, 11:42 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR View Post
Let's not forget the ZL1 without the 1LE package barely got beat buy a fully stripped out M4 that needs to be filled with water every few miles.
By «fully stripped out» you mean the 13kg it lost to the F82 M4 or the 8kg it weighs less than the CS?
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      04-12-2021, 11:42 AM   #64
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So they waited for the ugliest M3/4 to be designed to bring back the CSL?
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      04-12-2021, 11:45 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
Yes, both the F82 M4 GTS and the Camaro ZL1 was special models (with the ZL1 having 150hp more than the GTS).

The 2016 GTS set a 7:28 factory lap time

Now the base entry level G82 M4 Comp reportedly laps at 7:28-7:29

What isn't clicking?
What isn't clicking is why the M4 isn't faster. As a car labeled a Competition model 7:28-29 is not cutting it for that price point. In 2021 the car should be faster.
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      04-12-2021, 11:47 AM   #66
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Quote:
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By "fully stripped out" you mean the 13kg it lost to the F82 M4 or the 8kg it weighs less than the CS?
It's as stripped out as you're going to get from the factory. It's obviously missing creature comforts that the Camaro kept intact even in its most performance oriented trim.
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