[SwankPeRFection]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I don't think he has a valid point at all. By simply choosing the performance version of a model 3 or an M3, it's clear you'd be trying to differentiate the experience from an NPC car. If anything in between an NPC car and a purist sports car is far too compromised, why not go with a base model 3 or a 330i?

Because those other BMW car examples aren’t expensive enough. There are folks out there who turn up their nose at anything that’s too cheap, even though they may be exactly the same shit and get the same job done, but because it’s not the most expensive models, they’ll cry out it because they think it’s knocking down their own self-perceived status mark.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Because those other BMW car examples aren’t expensive enough. There are folks out there who turn up their nose at anything that’s too cheap, even though they may be exactly the same shit and get the same job done, but because it’s not the most expensive models, they’ll cry out it because they think it’s knocking down their own self-perceived status mark.

Well Cammisa's "point" is specific to the driving experience.

Regardless, by that exact reasoning, you're differentiating it from the "NPC" version of the car no? One is considered a status symbol while the other is an "NPC".

I'd like to believe most of us on this forum purchase it because it offers a far superior driving experience than its most base version, but ultimately any reasoning is more than simply saying, "well if you can't have a purist driving experience, it might as well be an NPC" while you go out and buy the high performance variant of the car.

[geko29]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

If an M3 according to you is an "absolute NPC car" and you/your wife get zero driving enjoyment out of it, why in the hell would you spend the money on one over a 330i? Folks in the g20 forum would argue the 330i is the better daily anyway.

I would hope folks in this forum would make that argument as well. The M340i is a dramatically better daily than the M3 due to the B58s low-end torque, combined with a more compliant suspension and better fuel economy. 330i trades some power and a lot of cost for even better economy.

The M3 is a dramatically more fun car than either of those, which nonetheless manages to be a competent daily. Different point of focus, different outcome, all compromises in some way. Neither is "wrong", and it's great that each of us can choose the version that best suits our needs.

Nearly all of my driving is recreational in nature, so the wild animal with the 6MT was the right choice for me. If I had a daily commute on bad roads, a regular 3-er would make more sense, and per the topic of the thread, an EV would likely make even more sense than that.

[yousefnjr]

He does make some fair points, many of which people on this forum make all time time. Plenty of posts on the lack of feel and #monoballs bro. Most folks seem to want more noise and dislike the fake sounds. Everybody wishes it were lighter and more affordable. I don’t think it’s a stretch to think that some people feel like they’re already compromising on a lot and might as well get something else. My wife buys these sugar free popsicles and I feel like I might as well be having a salad

[SwankPeRFection]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Well Cammisa's "point" is specific to the driving experience.

I understand that and I’m not defending them. As a matter of ironic fact my best friend and I just had this discussion over the weekend because he brought up this podcast. He’s also a “current” big fan of electric shit and an S Plaid owner, so he’s happy with that. That said, no matter how many races the Teslas can win, no matter what they can do at The Ring, they just won’t be on the same level as a real engine performance sedan in my and many other’s opinion. It’s hard to quantify why, but if I had to give an example, it’s probably the same thing that retro muscle car guys try to explain when they think those cars are superior to anything new, even an M car. The bottom line… everyone will have their likes and dislikes and everyone will have “their” justification for why it’s better. Sometimes it’s hard to make valid comparisons from a neutral standpoint and that almost never happens.

All that said, if you’re looking at it from the everyday point A to point B mundane traffic aspect, then yeah, maybe it does make sense to get whatever performance aspect out of a Model 3 vs an M car for 60k instead of 90k-ish. It might make more financial sense if you want a NEW car, but when pushed, there’s no way that Tesla is going to “peak perform” like an M can at their limit. And I don’t think I’m alone in saying “I would rather have that higher limit and not need it than not have it and need it.” I buy my cars with the intent to mod them, even a little bit, for more performance. I buy them for tuning potential and not out of the box static potential. I don’t want an M4 or M3 because it’s a more expensive 4 or 3 series and it’s a status symbol. I don’t want I because it’s expensive and somehow it’ll be perceived by the opposite sex as some kind of panty dropper. Lol I want it for its engine and chassis/drivetrain tuning potential. I want it because I can mod it to supercar killing level while looking like a normal mundane car (to the untrained eye) on the road so I don’t draw attention to myself when I do push it. I want it for that “Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing” aspect and potential. And hey, if I can’t afford a new one, I will buy used, because all those aspects are more important to me than what is costs new or that have to buy new for some goofy reason. From my standpoint, it’s actually more appealing to me to have a used M for around the same price as a new Model 3 Performance. I would NEVER go the other way… I see more personal value in the M than the Tesla for the same money. I describe the feeling as an unexplainable infatuation with the car. When I get that feeling about a car, I know it’s the car for me. You can’t get that out of a Tesla currently… at least not for me. I hate the sparse interior of those cars… the Model S is the only one that has somewhat of a more cockpit feel to it, but even that car is just not in the same driver centric league for fit to the driver. Elon’s biggest problem is that he’s not a car guy. This is why his cars are simplistic, soulless, purpose built machines. I believe if he had that passion a car guy has, his cars would be of a different caliber and probably more respected.

[nu2M]

I’ll bite. How about just enjoy what you have, be it an EV or ICE. A Plaid will prettty much smoke every stock ICE vehicle to 160mph in a straight line. I personally don’t have any interest in EVs. The weight of EVs can’t be masked; you can definitely feel the weight. As for me, I prefer the sound and feel of ICE. If an EV floats your boat, then great! All just personal preference. Reminds me of a song by Stephen Stills, “love the one you’re with”.

[mirob]

Camissa went from being an entertaining car enthusiasts and journalist to an entertainer and click-whore. Does he make some good points at times? Yes - but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

The stuff he does on Hagerty's YT channel is still great though.

[Trevorr]

It’s funny how prior to the g80 m3, m3’s were well received by automotive reviewers and Bimmerpost users praised the reviewers but when those same reviewers don’t give the g80 the highest praise, now all of a sudden, these reviewers aren’t to be trusted anymore.


G80 is a great car but people shouldn’t be offended when reviewers favor other cars over the g80.

[mirob]

Originally Posted by Trevorr

It’s funny how prior to the g80 m3, m3’s were well received by automotive reviewers and Bimmerpost users praised the reviewers but when those same reviewers don’t give the g80 the highest praise, now all of a sudden, these reviewers aren’t to be trusted anymore.


G80 is a great car but people shouldn’t be offended when reviewers favor other cars over the g80.

Try again.

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1393447

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Trevorr

It’s funny how prior to the g80 m3, m3’s were well received by automotive reviewers and Bimmerpost users praised the reviewers but when those same reviewers don’t give the g80 the highest praise, now all of a sudden, these reviewers aren’t to be trusted anymore.


G80 is a great car but people shouldn’t be offended when reviewers favor other cars over the g80.

LOL, did you read the press when the F80 came out?

https://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/m3/19058/b...ts-saloon-king

"The performance and pace of the early versions of the F80 was never in doubt, but they weren’t particularly suited to the UK’s bumpy and undulating roads. Poor body control, particularly at the rear, made the car feel difficult to predict and trust, especially when the weather was anything other than bone dry.

Over the years, tweaks to the BMW’s chassis and drivetrain calibration helped, but it wasn’t until the M3 Competition version arrived that the F80 M3’s potential was finally realised"

https://www.carthrottle.com/news/5-r...0-best-m3-ever

" In an age where performance cars have become faster but more sanitised it stands out for being unapologetically aggressive and demanding to drive. Arguably a bit too much so for the early versions, whose spiky power delivery and iffy damping made them a right handful on anything but smooth, dry tarmac."

Could find more. Steering uncommunicative. Too much low down torque, no need to rev over 5,500. Car is super capable but soulless. Turbos have ruined the character. Etc.

Point being, not all was love and roses for the F80.

[kev7c7]

Originally Posted by nu2M

I’ll bite. How about just enjoy what you have, be it an EV or ICE. A Plaid will prettty much smoke every stock ICE vehicle to 160mph in a straight line. I personally don’t have any interest in EVs. The weight of EVs can’t be masked; you can definitely feel the weight. As for me, I prefer the sound and feel of ICE. If an EV floats your boat, then great! All just personal preference. Reminds me of a song by Stephen Stills, “love the one you’re with”.

It looks like weight is only about 100lb more than the M3 xDrive? And I imagine the center of gravity would be lower due to the battery pack

As much as I love my M3 it looks like the new model 3 perf is a very compelling package for the money (about half price after the rebate compared to a reasonably optioned ~90k M3 xdrive).

[Trevorr]

Originally Posted by mirob

Try again.

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1393447

Cherry picked example, notice how I didn’t mention him but auto reviewers in general….

Auto reviews generally favor other cars other the g80….

Originally Posted by kev7c7

It looks like weight is only about 100lb more than the M3 xDrive? And I imagine the center of gravity would be lower due to the battery pack

As much as I love my M3 it looks like the new model 3 perf is a very compelling package for the money (about half price after the rebate compared to a reasonably optioned ~90k M3 xdrive).

They’re heavy but if anything, the battery pack helps because of like you said, they lower center of gravity.

[mirob]

Originally Posted by Trevorr

Cherry picked example, notice how I didn’t mention him but auto reviewers in general….

Auto reviews generally favor other cars other the g80….

I just gave you a taste. You made the claim. The burden of proof is on you.

[astroricardo]

Originally Posted by DB_Cooper

Not sure if anyone here listens to the Carmudgein podcast but the latest Episode has a lot of references to the G80 M3 and other sports sedans that compete with the Tesla model model 3 performance, the main topic of the latest episode (they love the Tesla btw). Link to the YouTube channel.

https://youtu.be/5xj0R4MyDhE?feature=shared

meh, who cares?

[FC4]

Originally Posted by astroricardo

meh, who cares?

About 81,000 people so far.

[astroricardo]

Originally Posted by FC4

About 81,000 people so far.

meh, don't care about that either

[BryanCO]

Cammisa is an idiot. I cannot watch the guy.

[nu2M]

Originally Posted by kev7c7

It looks like weight is only about 100lb more than the M3 xDrive? And I imagine the center of gravity would be lower due to the battery pack

As much as I love my M3 it looks like the new model 3 perf is a very compelling package for the money (about half price after the rebate compared to a reasonably optioned ~90k M3 xdrive).

I was comparing the Model S Plaid. I think the Model 3 Performance is a compelling package for sure, if driving an EV is your thing. I can’t speak for anyone else but the two people whom I know (one owns a Plaid and the other owns a Y Perf) both tell me that they were bored with the Tesla after about a month. At the end of the day, to each his own.

[Bimmer5]

I’d rather push my M3 than have a Tesla, no interest at all in any EV no matter how fast it goes.

[DTMfan]

Big Camissa fan. I get his points, but I still have a g80 on order. I knew the updated model 3 performance was arriving soon but passed on it. I already own an EV in the home and as much as I like that vehicle it’s still an appliance at the end of the day. The acceleration party trick dies off months down the road. I still think it’s a fantastic vehicle, but I I very much look forward to rowing my own gears again. Maybe my thoughts will change with the subsequent versions of M cars going from hybrid to electric.

[E63M6_G42M240i]

Originally Posted by kev7c7

It looks like weight is only about 100lb more than the M3 xDrive? And I imagine the center of gravity would be lower due to the battery pack

As much as I love my M3 it looks like the new model 3 perf is a very compelling package for the money (about half price after the rebate compared to a reasonably optioned ~90k M3 xdrive).

One thing you may have missed though. A G80 M3 is a bigger car. The model 3 is the size of a small (civic) sedan. So, we’re not comparing apples to apples.

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by E63M6_G42M240i

One thing you may have missed though. A G80 M3 is a bigger car. The model 3 is the size of a small (civic) sedan. So, we’re not comparing apples to apples.

The Civic isn't really a small car anymore, really. The sedan is 4" shorter than an M3. The Model 3 is only 2" shorter than an M3.

None of them are small.