[FC4]

Originally Posted by HotRodM4

I don't get the wagon obsession.

People pretend to like wagons on the internet because it signals to others that they're anti-SUV. Car enthusiasts aren't supposed to like SUVs.

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by FC4

People pretend to like wagons on the internet because it signals to others that they're anti-SUV. Car enthusiasts aren't supposed to like SUVs.

This.

Also, I know this is crazy… but people lie on the Internet. I lost count how many people signing the petition stating they WOULD buy an M3 wagon, also admitted they weren't really going to buy one. I guess they just like the idea.

[CarbonBlackJack]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

This.

Also, I know this is crazy… but people lie on the Internet. I lost count how many people signing the petition stating they WOULD buy an M3 wagon, also admitted they weren't really going to buy one. I guess they just like the idea.

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

Too few people in the US willing to buy a $100k performance wagon. People will dream tho.

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

This.

Also, I know this is crazy… but people lie on the Internet. I lost count how many people signing the petition stating they WOULD buy an M3 wagon, also admitted they weren't really going to buy one. I guess they just like the idea.

Totally get it but at the same time no allocations available for a $116k Audi wagon and significant markups for whatever is available. Enthusiasts, posers, whatever- think a good number of people would subscribe. They can't bring it here because of poor product planning on BMWNA's part unfortunately…

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by M2COMP

Beautiful. In black can swallow the grill. All blacked out 6spd will be stunning. Let's start a petition to bring it to US.

As far as I know, no 6MT for this one…

[M2COMP]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

As far as I know, no 6MT for this one…

Man that would have been a killer..a keeper
I'm sure someone will swap gearbox

[Sublime00]

Needs a 3rd pedal…

Besides that it looks pretty great

[M3 Competition]

What I don't get is why they removed the M3 Competition lettering on the center console with the new LCI8.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Yeah and the DCT dump shifts when you turn it way up and all the aids off. It's worse the more aggressive you drive, which is why the F80 cars got panned for being dangerous (if it shifted mid turn, you could lose control of the car)

People in love with the DCT that are panning the ZF8 like the image of it and the aggressiveness of the shifts. Performance of the two are equal at this point when you factor in the DCTs traction loss for a RWD car.

This is incorrect. When under lateral load, the DCT executes a butter smooth upshift even in the most aggressive Drivelogic setting. Turn 6 and turn 13 at my local track had me shifting mid corner at WOT and the car remained perfectly planted, I could not even feel the upshift.

People who believe the “performance” of the ZF8 is on par with a DCT have a limited view.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by mthreesixty3

I have a base 911 with PDK.

Even in S3 and sport plus everything, there is quite a noticeable delay. I don't think it's in the shift, more so in the time for the car to register that you hit the paddle.

Analogy:
911 PDK shifts are like when you hit the paddle, you INSTANTLY shift and feel like you are DIRECTLY shifting the car. It's telepathic. It really feels like I'm driving a manual without a clutch pedal.
G80 M3 felt like hitting the paddle was hitting a button on a computer, telling the car to shift, then the shift happens. It's not seamless. It's almost like if you are typing and you hit "a" and then see "a" on your screen .25 seconds later. I even hit the rev limiter during my test drive 3x

That's what it feels like.

You also don't "feel" the shift like you do in other DCT cars.

Also, I did NOT get the same feeling shifting the F80 DCT that I did the PDK. The F80 felt rough and still, not as snappy but a slight delay vs PDK. PDK is just perfect.

Almost everyone who has reviewed this car has commented on the gearbox and the delay.

The thing is with the ZF8 is that the planetary clutch packs are not sturdy enough to handle an all out power shift, the engine power therefore needs to be momentarily reduced while the power is passed from one planetary clutch pack to the other. The car’s acceleration is reduced during the upshift, giving it that perception of lag/sluggishness. The main DCT clutches are built to launch the car from rest, so they have no problem handling an all out powershift, recuperating the inertia of the engine rpm drop in the process to give a short surge of acceleration during the shift, giving it that positive feel. We have the ZF8 in our RS6 and it feels sluggish compared to a good dual clutch. I’ve also driven my buddies M5 on track, same sluggish feeling.

[PARTS@STBMW]

I need one!

[BimmerMat135]

I would love to replace my F31 by a G81 but since bmw fail to recognize difference between Canadian market and American market we'll be stuck with the pointless X3M instead. I guess that the RS6 is the only solution.

[Peertwelve]

I don't see it.. I've tried to love a sports wagon, doesn't do it for me. Wouldn't this eat into x3M sales here in the US?

[Ejones4541]

Perhaps the dads who are ashamed of driving a Dodge Caravan to grade school pick up are frustrated that a German station wagon is leaving them limp. Go buy the X5M and a script for Cialis.

[themnmd]

Originally Posted by kozzi

That looks sick!!! Bring it to the US please!

PLEASE!

I almost want to move to Europe so I can buy and drive one!

[BMWRL]

If I were a woman I'd sell my eggs to get this car!
Id sell my children.
I'd sell my internal organs except for my heart because I want to feel!
This is my dream car

[zambarossa]

Is it me or is black the worst color to show all the angles?

[KevinM]

Cool car. Other than the fact that M hasn't produced a wagon since the E91 M5 (and other than the E34 M5 touring has only released a few unicorn wagons), I'm not sure what the fuss is all about. You'd think M has released the second coming of your deity of choice rather than an M3 with a larger boot. I suppose I wish that M hadn't completely abandoned this market to AMG and Audi RS.

If they bring this to the US, I will...will...okay, not buy it. Why? Okay if we leave the lack of a MT out of it (which I really can't do), if I am am going to haul dogs or a bunch of stuff, yeah, I'm going to use my POS Kia Telluride (okay, it is actually a great SUV, but you get where I'm going) rather than load up my pristine M3T. And thus the quandary, at least in the US where we have multi-car garages, etc. Force me to choose ONE car, and this car makes sense.

[chicagofan00]

Would definitely trade my G80 in for this if they brought it to the US.

[Erebor]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The thing is with the ZF8 is that the planetary clutch packs are not sturdy enough to handle an all out power shift, the engine power therefore needs to be momentarily reduced while the power is passed from one planetary clutch pack to the other. The car’s acceleration is reduced during the upshift, giving it that perception of lag/sluggishness. The main DCT clutches are built to launch the car from rest, so they have no problem handling an all out powershift, recuperating the inertia of the engine rpm drop in the process to give a short surge of acceleration during the shift, giving it that positive feel. We have the ZF8 in our RS6 and it feels sluggish compared to a good dual clutch. I’ve also driven my buddies M5 on track, same sluggish feeling.

Ahh, now i think i get what you guys mean with "sluggish". You don't mean slow or slow responding, which it clearly isnt. Mine shifts withtin the blink of an eye, I can't tell a difference in shiftspeed between ZF8 and DCT.
But yes, the DCT gives a forward momentum while closing the clutch, the ZF8 doesn't.
But do you guys all have the latest update on your bimmer? BMW has lately retuned the ZF8. I have it in mine, since its a March production car, and it never felt as bad as all the ppl described it to be. It also sounds different while shifting.

[MD707]

I find these threads hilarious.

Near two tonne family wagon and ‘it must have manual’ . There is some weird obsession with manual>everything with car enthusiasts in the states, as if being able to wrangle a clutch pedal makes you Steve McQueen. Particularly under 30. There’s an obvious irony, when you consider you live in a land obsessed with 90 degree corners and stop signs, even in the sticks with not a soul around…which makes a manual a total and utter ball ache.

I cannot think of anything worse on a car like this, in that setting - sadomasochism. But maybe I must be very old and not a real enthusiast after all 😂

Originally Posted by mthreesixty3

911 PDK shifts are like when you hit the paddle, you INSTANTLY shift and feel like you are DIRECTLY shifting the car. It's telepathic. It really feels like I'm driving a manual without a clutch pedal.

That's what it feels like.

You also don't "feel" the shift like you do in other DCT cars.

PDK isn’t a gearbox though. It’s some kind of witchcraft. It’s not understood by science and it is indeed the perfect transmission.

That’s why if it breaks, they order you a new one and you can’t get the parts; they don’t understand what’s inside and are scared to open it.

[KINY3RA]

Originally Posted by GloriousMan1180

All that time in development, and they couldn't fix the front end 😂😂😂

Old and tired.

[mbanck]

Originally Posted by FC4

People pretend to like wagons on the internet because it signals to others that they're anti-SUV. Car enthusiasts aren't supposed to like SUVs.

Jason Cammisa also put forth that it could be the younger generation not liking what their parents drive - that used to sedans and wagons (and family vans), but now it's SUVs, so that might mean an uptake of wagons in future, who knows.