[Telly9987]

BMW = Smarter then the average driver

The code will show anything out of normality that the car does. I use similar tech on our team race bikes. We data log EVERYTHING. If it overboosts its logged, higher rpm, logged, misfire or variance in preset target AFR's, logged. While you can uninstall the tuner JB4 or whatever it will still be in the cars ECU stored data logs. So unless your smart enough to crack the DME (been done apparently but in beta still) there will be zero way to over ride/write the logs.

Tune it and enjoy it and when stuff breaks, upgrade it OR leave it the F alone OR sell it and buy a faster stock car..... Welcome to tinkering in 2021...

[CanuckM]

So for those who have been running JB4 for a few weeks now or months; what is your overall impression of the tune? Is the power bump fairly noticeable?

Is it like OEM? Any hiccups?

I haven't ran JB4 since my 2011 335i.

[Telly9987]

Waiting for answers also. I just received my JB4 and its sitting in the box. I ordered it a while ago to make sure I had access to it should I decide to run it. Waiting for more tests from end users.

Originally Posted by CanuckM

So for those who have been running JB4 for a few weeks now or months; what is your overall impression of the tune? Is the power bump fairly noticeable?

Is it like OEM? Any hiccups?

I haven't ran JB4 since my 2011 335i.

[TexasEd]

Originally Posted by Telly9987

Waiting for answers also. I just received my JB4 and its sitting in the box. I ordered it a while ago to make sure I had access to it should I decide to run it. Waiting for more tests from end users.

I recently returned my JB4. I decided against installing it as I prefer a DME tune rather than a piggyback. I will wait for the tuners as I know they are working on unlocking the ecu.

[Telly9987]

Most Likley going to do the same....

Originally Posted by TexasEd

I recently returned my JB4. I decided against installing it as I prefer a DME tune rather than a piggyback. I will wait for the tuners as I know they are working on unlocking the ecu.

[RTPenland]

Originally Posted by Der_Wolf

It seems to me you just don't understand technically what happens to a car when it has been modified out of stock parameters

Der_Wolf Fuel-IT understands quite well, but keep in mind when you are speaking with Fuel-IT you are essentially having a conversation with BMS / Burger Motorsports (makers of JB4) about their own product. Fuel-IT products are sold on the Burger Motorsports website, and quite a bit of the "BMS JB4" dyno info you will see shared here was done at the Fuel-IT location in AZ. If you do a little research you will discover that most of what Fuel-IT does here on bimmerpost is defend and promote BMS products as you would expect. In fact on Burgers own forum (N54tech.com) Fuel-IT post as Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It! not sure they don't do that here, I think it would help a lot of people.

So they are going to defend their position on piggybacks to the bitter end and not back down. While at the same time taking swings at flash tunes

None of this is a problem at all but just figured I'd let you know you are not having a conversation with just another forum member, you are having a discussion with the manufacturer and/or their representative

[Der_Wolf]

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

I think the joke is on you as that statement is full of half truths to try to create the perception that JB4 tuning and flash tuning are equally detectable.

The reality is all critical parameters are left in factory like values with the JB4. Their statement to the contrary is false.

The acceleration check they talk about has been in place since 2015, it's not a new addition. And it's easy for a system to avoid triggering it if you're tapped in to CANbus. Also remember acceleration alone does not prove you were tuned because the system has no real time way of telling how much slope you were going down as the slow speed GPS is not accurate enough for it. Also worth adding since 2015 I've yet to hear of a warranty claim being denied over the acceleration parameter.

As for leaving marks on sensors when unplugging them you have to really mangle it for them to notice. That is on the installer. Even if you mangle one you still have a fighting chance or could replace the connector.

Compare that to flash tuning, where the second BMW plugs in to the OBDII for your free oil changes several modules proactively report that you've been tuned and auto flag your VIN. There is no denial or defense possible, you're just screwed.

I am not comparing flash tunes to piggybacks. I am simply stating the fact of what happens when you tune your vehicle (flash or piggyback) and expect a warranty claim. So what about the FASTA data logged in the transmission? There have been a couple BMW techs on here as well who are confirming what I am saying, but I am sure you know better... If you want to talk about how JB4 is the best piggyback, then be my guest. I have no problem with vendors trying to sell their products. What I do take issue with, is someone trying to mislead a BMW owner when they are the ones who are going to have to foot the bill at the end of the day *IF* something goes south. Why doesn't the JB4 come with full warranty coverage then if BMW denies it?

Originally Posted by RTPenland

Der_Wolf Fuel-IT understands quite well, but keep in mind when you are speaking with Fuel-IT you are essentially having a conversation with BMS / Burger Motorsports (makers of JB4) about their own product. Fuel-IT products are sold on the Burger Motorsports website, and quite a bit of the "BMS JB4" dyno info you will see shared here was done at the Fuel-IT location in AZ. If you do a little research you will discover that most of what Fuel-IT does here on bimmerpost is defend and promote BMS products as you would expect. In fact on Burgers own forum (N54tech.com) Fuel-IT post as Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It! not sure they don't do that here, I think it would help a lot of people.

So they are going to defend their position on piggybacks to the bitter end and not back down. While at the same time taking swings at flash tunes

None of this is a problem at all but just figured I'd let you know you are not having a conversation with just another forum member, you are having a discussion with the manufacturer and/or their representative

Thats even worse. What a slimeball move to get people to buy the product. As well, Mission Performance is an actual tuner (as in, Fuel-IT is not BMS from what I understand; not as in BMS aren't actual tuners in their own right). I am sure you are aware of his accomplishments and what he has done for Toyota directly for the Supra. Why he would apparently not know how the systems work is just laughable.

[vetteflier]

Very interesting discussion on both sides. To a tuning dummy like me, it seems the PB tune is simply a voltage regulator that lies to the ECU saying, e.g., the X volts showing 24# of boost is really Y, showing 20# so add 4 more pounds of boost to get to X. The instant question, if I may go legalize, is what does the ECU store from this trickery? If it thinks only 24# was given, no harm/no foul. But, if it somehow shows 28#, warranty work would be justifiably denied. My question would be how would it show this? It it's tricked, it's tricked. There are 3 connections, and I don't know what the other two do or how they would be mapped by the ECU. Perhaps one of them would be the culprit.

"And no, a piggyback can not trick or block acceleration reading since ABS picks up that data directly from speed sensors in each wheel as well as uses GPS to eliminate false positives readings..."

I don't buy this statement, however. So, you went 145. So what? It is not conclusive of anything except that you went 145 under conditions completely unknown to BMW. Moss Magnuson places a high burden of proof on the manufacturer. ABS readings would have no traction in an arbitration case except what is called obiter dicta in law. Interesting; but not specifically relevant.

[PLife]

You can theoretically achieve hella more Gs on track or roads with camber and elevation changes so thats out. I think the trans stores data. I was also reading that the G80 calculates air flow off various parameters, which in theory may be a bit off if you are running outside factory specs. But my main concern would be the torque reading as a dead giveaway.

[BadBoostedBMWM3]

Very nice!

Were the dynos in efficient mode?

[PLife]

I believe he had changed his injectors if i am not mistaken

[Glemm1970]

JB4 Map 2. 98Ron.

[CanuckM]

Thanks for sharing Glemm1970

From the looks of it, you have a competition? 6.6 100-200 is a monster!

How is the drivability of the car? Does it run like stock?

[PLife]

Originally Posted by Glemm1970

JB4 Map 2. 98Ron.

Thanks for the data. That 100-200 is strong! Can you post the full screen of those runs so we can see the DA and tracings? Those are really informative for traction, power delivery and shifting.

[Glemm1970]

DA 374m. +23C , 90% air humidity. Loc Vladivostok Russia.
Start launch .

[Glemm1970]

JB4 Map 2. E20. No Launch. Tires P Zero.

[bm5bullit]

I see lots of potential with this platform!

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by Glemm1970

JB4 Map 2. E20. No Launch. Tires P Zero.

NICE!!!

[CanuckM]

chris3g How's the feedback on your 6MT so far?

I really keep flip flopping on ordering the JB4 or not...it's been in my cart for weeks now. I'm hoping that it would dial up even more drama in the car? It seems like the competition due to gearing and higher torque feels wholly different.

How's your car been running? Did you solve the comfort v. sport plus boost levels?

[chris3g]

Originally Posted by CanuckM

chris3g How's the feedback on your 6MT so far?

I really keep flip flopping on ordering the JB4 or not...it's been in my cart for weeks now. I'm hoping that it would dial up even more drama in the car? It seems like the competition due to gearing and higher torque feels wholly different.

How's your car been running? Did you solve the comfort v. sport plus boost levels?

i continue to be very happy with it. haven't really given it much thought lately, it's just there and the car drives the same as stock as far i remember. I did notice they recently released a v7 map version which changed the boost targets a bit so i upgraded to that, did a quick log where everything looked ok, and im back to not really thinking about it. i'm running map3 (currently 23psi target as of v7) and an e30 blend daily.

[M2_MEDUSA]

Originally Posted by Telly9987

BMW = Smarter then the average driver

The code will show anything out of normality that the car does. I use similar tech on our team race bikes. We data log EVERYTHING. If it overboosts its logged, higher rpm, logged, misfire or variance in preset target AFR's, logged. While you can uninstall the tuner JB4 or whatever it will still be in the cars ECU stored data logs. So unless your smart enough to crack the DME (been done apparently but in beta still) there will be zero way to over ride/write the logs.

Tune it and enjoy it and when stuff breaks, upgrade it OR leave it the F alone OR sell it and buy a faster stock car..... Welcome to tinkering in 2021...

Sir you obv have zero clue how a JB4 works. Over boost is not stored into the DME with the JB4 because the JB4 tells the ECU it's recieving stock boost. Cmon now : log the stock boost. Be my guest. Cus that's all they will see.

The absolute only way they can deem a possible tinkering in tuning is going to be with the torque load. And that's an entirely different beast and road that is hard to win if fought on their end. Cheers

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by SpecialEdition_F87

Sir you obv have zero clue how a JB4 works. Over boost is not stored into the DME with the JB4 because the JB4 tells the ECU it's recieving stock boost. Cmon now : log the stock boost. Be my guest. Cus that's all they will see.

The absolute only way they can deem a possible tinkering in tuning is going to be with the torque load. And that's an entirely different beast and road that is hard to win if fought on their end. Cheers

Why would it be hard for BMW to win? That’s the most confusing sentence in your post. As to whether the first part of your post is true or not I don’t know but BMW can deny anything they want and there’s not a freaking thing you can do about it. Absolutely nothing. Even if you throw a professional temper tantrum how are you going to change their mind?

Now to address the first part of your post I thought these piggybacks were still data logged in the CPUs. You’re saying not with the JB4? How about Racechip?