[Transfer]

I drive my cars on PS4S in summer and Pirelli Sottozero 3 / Scorpion Winter in the cold months. Due to my tire choices, I am always in control of my vehicle in all conditions no matter if I'm casual slow driving to the grocery store or driving aggressively, getting the most of my BMWs. If I were to change to A/S tires, I would have higher risk of losing control of my vehicle and would drive accordingly, but why have that higher risk? The rubber you choose keeps you in control.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Ximian

If anyone is finding limits of all-season tires on public roads, they should rethink some life choices.

For me it's not about finding the limits on public roads, it's more about feel. Essentially.... in the summer, am I neutering the steering feel of the car (steering response, turn-in, etc) by going with all-seasons vs. summer tires, or is the feeling not significant enough to warrant a separate set of summers and separate set of winters for someone who's fine with all seasons in the winter?

Ultimately I don't care if the skidpad goes from 0.95 to 0.97 because of a nicer pair of tires, what matters to me is how the steering response is.

Part of me says, you're spending the money on an M3.... what's another $1,500 on good tires. Another part of me says, well if it doesn't make a significant difference in day to day summer driving performance, do I really need to spend that $1,500?

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Ultimately I don't care if the skidpad goes from 0.95 to 0.97 because of a nicer pair of tires, what matters to me is how the steering response is.

A lot depends on the steering response and how tires contribute to it. It's very subjective and what you actually like might not be the best for performance.

If you prefer a little bit of roll at turn in, a tire with a softer sidewall like a PS4s is great. If you prefer a more precise but harsher steering feel, tires with stiffer sidewalls are plentiful in the low end of the price range for performance summer tires.

99% of the people on this forum couldn't tell the difference between an high end all season and a summer performance tire while driving it. It's all the usual spreadsheet nonsense of "tire X stops 10 feet sooner from 60 MPH than the all season tire Y". I doubt you'd be unhappy with an A/S 3+ or DWS 06 tire from a performance perspective, but they can get quite noisy as they wear. They're very quiet when new so it's a common complaint.

I have PS4S that are quite loud on my current car, but that's expected.

[antzcrashing]

Ok I appreciate the short debate on all season vs summer tires, but lets try to get back to the original thread intent: if you are going to get he G8X and live in a cold climate, how are you equipping it from the factory and what is your winter setup looking like. Definitely some great responses so far. I like that some people take a more performance focused approach and others a more conservative approach. These perspectives help

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Ximian

A lot depends on the steering response and how tires contribute to it. It's very subjective and what you actually like might not be the best for performance.

If you prefer a little bit of roll at turn in, a tire with a softer sidewall like a PS4s is great. If you prefer a more precise but harsher steering feel, tires with stiffer sidewalls are plentiful in the low end of the price range for performance summer tires.

99% of the people on this forum couldn't tell the difference between an high end all season and a summer performance tire while driving it. It's all the usual spreadsheet nonsense of "tire X stops 10 feet sooner from 60 MPH than the all season tire Y". I doubt you'd be unhappy with an A/S 3+ or DWS 06 tire from a performance perspective, but they can get quite noisy as they wear. They're very quiet when new so it's a common complaint.

I have PS4S that are quite loud on my current car, but that's expected.

Thanks, I think that answers my question. I was eyeing the A/S 3+ (or whatever the equivalent will be when I'm ready to order in 2022). I'm not tracking the car so I don't need the highest performing tire, I was just concerned about it taking away from the "M-ness" of the experience even on public roads. This will be my first true M car so I'm trying to make sure I don't screw it up

[solstice]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I was just concerned about it taking away from the "M-ness" of the experience even on public roads. This will be my first true M car so I'm trying to make sure I don't screw it up

This is not a black and white determination. IMO it does take away some. The M car differentiates itself from the non M cars by increased performance and sportiness. Tires make a difference to me. I have and will never run all seasons in summer on any performance car.

Others are not bothered about it as you got a different answer from a member here. So it’s not right or wrong in general, it varies person to person.

[Dr.Deep]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

Ok I appreciate the short debate on all season vs summer tires, but lets try to get back to the original thread intent: if you are going to get he G8X and live in a cold climate, how are you equipping it from the factory and what is your winter setup looking like. Definitely some great responses so far. I like that some people take a more performance focused approach and others a more conservative approach. These perspectives help

I would say it depends really on your local „conditions".
I live in Switzerland and here the roads are in winter often fully covered in snow, besides some main roads they plow. I ordered an M4C RWD with the 19/20 setup, that will become my winter rims with winter tires.
I was lucky to test drive the M4C in that 19/20 setup two weeks ago in very bad conditions (slush,full snow, wet roads). It performed very good!

Currently I drive an M2 with factory summersetup in terms of size, but of course winter tires. On normal roads and smaller hills never had any issues, performs very good, but of course you will get to a limit if you need to drive very steep and snow covered roads.

So I would say, if you have a lot of snow, steep hills and garage entries and so on, I would choose AWD..

[chicagoguy0822]

Originally Posted by Ximian

A lot depends on the steering response and how tires contribute to it. It's very subjective and what you actually like might not be the best for performance.

If you prefer a little bit of roll at turn in, a tire with a softer sidewall like a PS4s is great. If you prefer a more precise but harsher steering feel, tires with stiffer sidewalls are plentiful in the low end of the price range for performance summer tires.

99% of the people on this forum couldn't tell the difference between an high end all season and a summer performance tire while driving it. It's all the usual spreadsheet nonsense of "tire X stops 10 feet sooner from 60 MPH than the all season tire Y". I doubt you'd be unhappy with an A/S 3+ or DWS 06 tire from a performance perspective, but they can get quite noisy as they wear. They're very quiet when new so it's a common complaint.

I have PS4S that are quite loud on my current car, but that's expected.

Do you know if it is possible for the dealer to swap out to all-seasons when you take delivery of the car? If so, do they credit you back for the cost of the summer tires you aren't using?

[solstice]

As for how to equip the car for winter. When I order I always buy what I want in summer for my M3s and not let winter decide. If I want RWD and a certain summer wheel/tire type that’s what I order.

If I deal with harsh winter when picking up the car I’ll ask the dealer to put on a separate winter set before delivery. Either purchased from the dealer or brought in by me.

If I want AWD in summer like with the G8X I order that. AWD is so much more pros and cons than just added winter traction, I would not select AWD solely based on winter for a car like the M3.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by pgreen822

Do you know if it is possible for the dealer to swap out to all-seasons when you take delivery of the car? If so, do they credit you back for the cost of the summer tires you aren't using?

I doubt they will give you much credit for the summer tires back, if anything. As the tires are used, the dealer would be selling them on eBay and not everyone wants to go through that hassle.

I think the G8x performance tire is the PS4S. The front tire will be very easy to sell (275/35/19) while the rear might take a tiny little bit more time. You'll be able to get a good amount back selling even on Facebook Marketplace or something like that.

The dealers only typically sell specific 'approved' tires, so your selection isn't going to be great. You're better off ordering the tires from Tire Rack and getting it installed elsewhere.

Some places (Discount Tire) even have friendly return policies so you can return/exchange your tires if you don't like them.

[M3PGH]

Originally Posted by pgreen822

Do you know if it is possible for the dealer to swap out to all-seasons when you take delivery of the car? If so, do they credit you back for the cost of the summer tires you aren't using?

yes the dealer will swap to AS tires at delivery, if you want them to, and give you back the OEM tires . You can sell these or if you lease the car you can put them back for lease return..
what I usually do, depending on the time of the year the car is delivered , is to use summer tires and do the switch depending on weather to UHP AS tires in the cold season and keeping them on...
our area is hilly and gets fair amount of snow and I had no problem with UHP AS tires on cars with more HP
E63 S AMG ran 3 years with continental DWS 06
M5C currently running Michelin A/S 3 + and this is second winter with them , no issues so far

[Benjamin]

Blizzacks are a must for snow but the real issue is how far your going and what speed.

[2011ninja]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Thanks. I should clarify, I've only ever had all-seasons, so I don't really know the true performance potential of high performance summer tires on a daily driver.

I do like to drive aggressively, although opportunities are limited living in Chicagoland.

As for winter driving, I don't really need high performance as much as just being able to get by, so all-seasons would be totally fine for me in the winters. It's really the summer performance I'm questioning. Will going to highly rated all-season tires reduce summer performance to such a noticeable amount compared to the stock summer tires that it justifies me spending significantly more money for 2 sets of tires as opposed to just 1 set of tires?

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Thanks. I should clarify, I've only ever had all-seasons, so I don't really know the true performance potential of high performance summer tires on a daily driver.

I do like to drive aggressively, although opportunities are limited living in Chicagoland.

As for winter driving, I don't really need high performance as much as just being able to get by, so all-seasons would be totally fine for me in the winters. It's really the summer performance I'm questioning. Will going to highly rated all-season tires reduce summer performance to such a noticeable amount compared to the stock summer tires that it justifies me spending significantly more money for 2 sets of tires as opposed to just 1 set of tires?

I live in Connecticut and they take good care of the roads.

I'd say I drive moderately aggressive; I mean how much can you get away with on public roads.

I've run summer performance Michelin and High Performance Continental DWS 06. For how I drive the Continental DWS 06 are very good.

For those that claim to need a max performance summer tire; I've yet to see anyone utilize that kind of grip on the street.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by 2011ninja

For those that claim to need a max performance summer tire; I've yet to see anyone utilize that kind of grip on the street.

You have better drivers than we have here cause I sure have seen more cars than I care for that have exceeded the limits...

[2011ninja]

Originally Posted by solstice

You have better drivers than we have here cause I sure have seen more cars than I care for that have exceeded the limits...

Me included...

I'm just saying that window of driving like you're an F1 driver is tiny.

I've done top speed runs on the Michelin and Conti all Season no difference.

Today it was 45 degrees; tonight driving it was 37 with slippery patches; it's days like this I appreciate the DWS 06.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by 2011ninja

Me included...

I'm just saying that window of driving like you're an F1 driver is tiny.

I've done top speed runs on the Michelin and Conti all Season no difference.

Today it was 45 degrees; tonight driving it was 37 with slippery patches; it's days like this I appreciate the DWS 06.

I lived in fort Lauderdale FL (south florida) where it snowed once in the last century and it was more like the rain took a twirling path before it vaporized on he pavement. Despite the lack of winter weather I opted for The Conti DWS all-seasons over summers (contemplated summers for awhile before going that route too). In the end I was happy because 1) I was coming from shitty early-gen run flats so they felt like a huge upgrade 2) the rain can be heavy and sudden in south florida, so the security of the extra grip was helpful

[harperium]

Just to chime in with my experience with the Michelin A/S 3+

They are fine as "summers" - obviously not as much grip as PS4S. It's not that you need all that grip for cornering on public roads unless you're a hooligan, but if you do a full brake slam at, say, 60 mph, you will notice a difference with A/S 3+ and PS4S.

In the cold dry and cold wet, the A/S 3+ are pretty good.

But on actual snow and ice, they suck. Better than summer tires, obviously, but not good.

I live in Chicago, so most of my winter miles are on salted plowed roads, and I don't have to worry about hills.