[Jims M3]

Let me start by saying I did this upgrade on my F80 M3, and it was primarily to try and fix some of the real issues that car had with bushing deflection and control. When I bought my G82 I immediately noticed a lot of the snap oversteer issues and rear end control didn't seem to be as prevalent as in the F80, and it felt much more calm under power. But I have never liked the OEM steering or feel from the rear end when it wants to squirm around a lot.

I went with the Millway thrust arm bushings primarily because they have a rubber seal on them ensuring that they won't get contaminated as easily by road grime and debris. It is a big install job for these cars. I had them professionally installed.

At the same time I had the SPL toe arms installed with the eccentric lock outs. This helps so much with that rear wheel squirm you feel on direction changes under power.

Overall here is my feedback on this upgrade. First off is steering feel is amazing, you can actually feel communication from the road, a strong connection to the road. No NVH from these, one big difference from the F80 is the G82 steering doesn't feel nearly as heavy after this upgrade. You feel much more certain about what the front end is doing. I feel like the G82 has much more front end grip than the previous F80, this just improves it even more. It solves so many of the numb feeling of the electric steering and makes it feel more hydraulic.

As for the toe arms they go together so well with the front bushings in again reducing deflection of the rubber bushings resulting in greater car control and precise turn in. That Squirm is gone side to side, and there is greater control of the rear end. The toe arms are an absolute necessity on these cars from my perspective if you want to feel more in control of the power. To me these two upgrades don't have a negative downside but a great upside in control and driving enjoyment. Every review you read about these cars mentions the issues with steering feel and overall feel under load and turn in. The monoballs really help solve those issues and these are two of the most important bushings to address without going fully monoball/Heim joints . You lose nothing in drivability and don't get any new NVH. Simple great upgrade for the person who wants to go faster and feel in control.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by Jims M3

Let me start by saying I did this upgrade on my F80 M3, and it was primarily to try and fix some of the real issues that car had with bushing deflection and control. When I bought my G82 I immediately noticed a lot of the snap oversteer issues and rear end control didn't seem to be as prevalent as in the F80, and it felt much more calm under power. But I have never liked the OEM steering or feel from the rear end when it wants to squirm around a lot.

I went with the Millway thrust arm bushings primarily because they have a rubber seal on them ensuring that they won't get contaminated as easily by road grime and debris. It is a big install job for these cars. I had them professionally installed.

At the same time I had the SPL toe arms installed with the eccentric lock outs. This helps so much with that rear wheel squirm you feel on direction changes under power.

Overall here is my feedback on this upgrade. First off is steering feel is amazing, you can actually feel communication from the road, a strong connection to the road. No NVH from these, one big difference from the F80 is the G82 steering doesn't feel nearly as heavy after this upgrade. You feel much more certain about what the front end is doing. I feel like the G82 has much more front end grip than the previous F80, this just improves it even more. It solves so many of the numb feeling of the electric steering and makes it feel more hydraulic.

As for the toe arms they go together so well with the front bushings in again reducing deflection of the rubber bushings resulting in greater car control and precise turn in. That Squirm is gone side to side, and there is greater control of the rear end. The toe arms are an absolute necessity on these cars from my perspective if you want to feel more in control of the power. To me these two upgrades don't have a negative downside but a great upside in control and driving enjoyment. Every review you read about these cars mentions the issues with steering feel and overall feel under load and turn in. The monoballs really help solve those issues and these are two of the most important bushings to address without going fully monoball/Heim joints . You lose nothing in drivability and don't get any new NVH. Simple great upgrade for the person who wants to go faster and feel in control.

Great review, appreciate you taking the time to post. Glad you are enjoying the SPL and Millway items.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Jims M3

. First off is steering feel is amazing, you can actually feel communication from the road, a strong connection to the road. No NVH from these, one big difference from the F80 is the G82 steering doesn't feel nearly as heavy after this upgrade. You feel much more certain about what the front end is doing. I feel like the G82 has much more front end grip than the previous F80, this just improves it even more. It solves so many of the numb feeling of the electric steering and makes it feel more hydraulic.

First of all, thank you for the comprehensive review! As someone who grew up with E30, then E36, E46 and E38, I came to know and revere BMW steering feel. To me, my G80 has a good bit of "feel" through the wheel as in NVH. I feel road texture, etc. What I do not feel is self centering, and a sense of load through the wheel as it turns. I do not feel a strong connection to how the cornering forces are building. The steering is accurate, and I feel rumbling through my hands, but nothing about what the front end of the car is doing. So it's interesting, the EPS isn't filtering out road "noise", but it's certainly filtering out load that the rack is being subject to.

Is this what the monoballs are adding back?

I'm getting the CS package coded to my car tomorrow. Curious to see how much steering "feel" that I get back from that. If that's not satisfactory, monoballs are next.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

First of all, thank you for the comprehensive review! As someone who grew up with E30, then E36, E46 and E38, I came to know and revere BMW steering feel. To me, my G80 has a good bit of "feel" through the wheel as in NVH. I feel road texture, etc. What I do not feel is self centering, and a sense of load through the wheel as it turns. I do not feel a strong connection to how the cornering forces are building. The steering is accurate, and I feel rumbling through my hands, but nothing about what the front end of the car is doing. So it's interesting, the EPS isn't filtering out road "noise", but it's certainly filtering out load that the rack is being subject to.

Is this what the monoballs are adding back?

I'm getting the CS package coded to my car tomorrow. Curious to see how much steering "feel" that I get back from that. If that's not satisfactory, monoballs are next.

LCAB monoballs make a difference but they definitely do not make EPS fill like a hydraulic system. No way, no how. Small but noticeable change in steering. Also, improvement in braking feel. They don’t turn the EPS into an e92 or e46 M hydraulic steering rack with awesome feel and feedback, in particular, load changes during cornering.

Replacing just the rear toe arm doesn’t prevent suspension geometry, including toe, from changing dynamically. You need to convert all rear arms to monoballs if you want to limit dynamic suspension changes while cornering or putting power down.

[christianb5s4]

Great review and very helpful for those considering this, including myself. I already have a set of Millways on hand and also plan to do the CS software.

How much of the improvement do you think is tied specifically to the monoballs versus the toe arms?

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

LCAB monoballs make a difference but they definitely do not make EPS fill like a hydraulic system. No way, no how. Small but noticeable change in steering. Also, improvement in braking feel. They don’t turn the EPS into an e92 or e46 M hydraulic steering rack with awesome feel and feedback, in particular, load changes during cornering.

I understand. However, I've driven multiple Porsche EPS systems which are very good, and much more feelsome than the G80. Hydraulic steering is....a bit of an over used hype term. Yes, it's easier to be better. But not all hydraulic steering is wonderful. My 997 Turbo S had hydraulic steering, and it was heavy and not particularly communicative. Not as much so as a RWD 997 variant. My early 991.1 had horrible steering but late 991.2's such as the 2019 Carrera T's that I've driven are excellent. Honestly my wife's current Cayenne tells me more about loads than my G80 does. It's very light on center but loads up more organically when turned.

So...not all hydraulic is good and not all EPS is bad. It doesn't help that the E30, E36 and E46 is some of the best hydraulic steering ever. I'm just trying to see if the CS program will help make it more feelsome, as I know EPS systems can be better than this.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I understand. However, I've driven multiple Porsche EPS systems which are very good, and much more feelsome than the G80. Hydraulic steering is....a bit of an over used hype term. Yes, it's easier to be better. But not all hydraulic steering is wonderful. My 997 Turbo S had hydraulic steering, and it was heavy and not particularly communicative. Not as much so as a RWD 997 variant. My early 991.1 had horrible steering but late 991.2's such as the 2019 Carrera T's that I've driven are excellent. Honestly my wife's current Cayenne tells me more about loads than my G80 does. It's very light on center but loads up more organically when turned.

So...not all hydraulic is good and not all EPS is bad. It doesn't help that the E30, E36 and E46 is some of the best hydraulic steering ever. I'm just trying to see if the CS program will help make it more feelsome, as I know EPS systems can be better than this.

I definitely agree with not all EPS is bad and not all hydraulic systems are good. However, going from e46 & e92 Ms after 14 years combined as well as driving AP1 and AP2 s2000s with great EPS for 10 years spoiled me because I’d experienced what great hydraulic and electric steering systems were like. Made it easy to identity the shortcomings/issues with the F8x EPS which did improve with GTS coding but still left you with no clue what the tires were doing. G8x EPS isn’t much better and, I hope, the CS coding has the same effect the GTS coding had on the F8x - a noticeable improvement justifying the cost.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

I definitely agree with not all EPS is bad and not all hydraulic systems are good. However, going from e46 & e92 Ms after 14 years combined as well as driving AP1 and AP2 s2000s with great EPS for 10 years spoiled me because I’d experienced what great hydraulic and electric steering systems were like. Made it easy to identity the shortcomings/issues with the F8x EPS which did improve with GTS coding but still left you with no clue what the tires were doing. G8x EPS isn’t much better and, I hope, the CS coding has the same effect the GTS coding had on the F8x - a noticeable improvement justifying the cost.

Let you know tomorrow.

[OzDrives]

Originally Posted by Jims M3

Let me start by saying I did this upgrade on my F80 M3, and it was primarily to try and fix some of the real issues that car had with bushing deflection and control. When I bought my G82 I immediately noticed a lot of the snap oversteer issues and rear end control didn't seem to be as prevalent as in the F80, and it felt much more calm under power. But I have never liked the OEM steering or feel from the rear end when it wants to squirm around a lot.

I went with the Millway thrust arm bushings primarily because they have a rubber seal on them ensuring that they won't get contaminated as easily by road grime and debris. It is a big install job for these cars. I had them professionally installed.

At the same time I had the SPL toe arms installed with the eccentric lock outs. This helps so much with that rear wheel squirm you feel on direction changes under power.

Overall here is my feedback on this upgrade. First off is steering feel is amazing, you can actually feel communication from the road, a strong connection to the road. No NVH from these, one big difference from the F80 is the G82 steering doesn't feel nearly as heavy after this upgrade. You feel much more certain about what the front end is doing. I feel like the G82 has much more front end grip than the previous F80, this just improves it even more. It solves so many of the numb feeling of the electric steering and makes it feel more hydraulic.

As for the toe arms they go together so well with the front bushings in again reducing deflection of the rubber bushings resulting in greater car control and precise turn in. That Squirm is gone side to side, and there is greater control of the rear end. The toe arms are an absolute necessity on these cars from my perspective if you want to feel more in control of the power. To me these two upgrades don't have a negative downside but a great upside in control and driving enjoyment. Every review you read about these cars mentions the issues with steering feel and overall feel under load and turn in. The monoballs really help solve those issues and these are two of the most important bushings to address without going fully monoball/Heim joints . You lose nothing in drivability and don't get any new NVH. Simple great upgrade for the person who wants to go faster and feel in control.

Thank you for an awesome write up. I too can attest that the monoballs are an absolute must on these cars for someone who cares about driving.

On the topic of rear arms - I've heard mixed reviews. Some have reported noticeable NVH with not much improvement terms of driving dynamics. Your review is one of the few with positive feedback on these.

Have you considered doing the traction arms too? Dinan and Carbahn sell these four as a kit and SPL seem to recommend pairing them as well.

[christianb5s4]

I've had the Millway monoballs for a week and concur on the same positive impressions. Takes the steering from sharp to zero imprecision.

It does add some steering weight but absolutely no downside in my experience. Adds steering feel but never unwanted NVH and also reduces tramlining.

[KevinGS]

Thanks, Jim. I will likely move in this direction as a future mod. I just don't wany any added noise and unnecessary vibration through the car. Added feel through the steering wheel would be fine. And I don't want a deterioration of ride quality (abruptness and sharpness when hitting certain bumps and expansion joints).

[SE7EN335]

I did Millway Monoballs and Fall line race toe arms on my F80 before and it completely transformed the car. I plan to do the same on my G80