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      08-24-2020, 03:52 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danniexi View Post
so why are there two versions when they only have to release the single AWD version?
The answer is always "more money".

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unless the RWD only is really THAT much lighter, I really dont see the need to have a staggered model range.
There's still a market for a performance sedan (and sedan-based two door vehicles) with a manual transmission, and BMW saw the opportunity to own that market (Cadillac is the only other one left). In order to make the business case work, they determined the manual version should be a purist model with RWD. This allows them to share costs with the G87 M2 which will use the same drivetrain.
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      08-24-2020, 04:01 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Most buyers aren't going to opt for AWD.
Thats a very confident statement... market demographics are quickly changing across the board... I am a RWD guy... but if there is say a 100 lb penalty and I can still retain RWD drift mode in the AWD car... well...
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      08-24-2020, 04:02 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Thats a very confident statement...
So was his. I just countered it with an explicit statement to make a point.
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      08-24-2020, 04:38 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by OF Hero View Post
Xdrive for Comp models only, I assume?
Yes.
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      08-24-2020, 04:56 PM   #49
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All this talk of model years is basically nothing but this stupid American exceptionalism. The basic processes at BMW have nothing to do with model years. Each year, there are three points at which new products can be introduced. For European plants, those points are the first days of March, July, or November. When you go and buy a car, you just get the model you want, and depending on the specific car's production date, you get certain features or you don't. There's no model year. Even the VIN always has a zero in that position.

Model years only become relevant when BMW sells its products in the markets that actually care about them: US, Canada, China, a few other Asian countries, Middle East, maybe some other places I can't remember. There, all the bureaucracy is built around annual revisions, so what BMW does is just takes the version of the car that will be in effect when the new MY for that model should start, and that's what is sold throughout the year. And sometimes that means delaying the product because if production starts at one of the three available revision dates in the calendar year, but the model year is at a different one of those three dates, it may be easier to wait and not release a new model only to make revisions to it (with all the required paperwork and whatever else NHTSA wants) 4 months later.
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      08-24-2020, 04:57 PM   #50
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I'm sure no one will want a RWD M car. lol
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      08-24-2020, 07:17 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS_BMW View Post
I'm sure no one will want a RWD M car. lol
Ya I agree. So the real debut is 2021 when they review the real ///M3 and we can see what it's capable of.
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      08-24-2020, 07:26 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by hdubf80 View Post
Ya I agree. So the real debut is 2021 when they review the real ///M3 and we can see what it's capable of.
It’s sounds to me that the RWD will smash all the usual competitors. The AWD will just be more salt in the wounds
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      08-24-2020, 07:40 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
All this talk of model years is basically nothing but this stupid American exceptionalism. The basic processes at BMW have nothing to do with model years. Each year, there are three points at which new products can be introduced. For European plants, those points are the first days of March, July, or November. When you go and buy a car, you just get the model you want, and depending on the specific car's production date, you get certain features or you don't. There's no model year. Even the VIN always has a zero in that position.

Model years only become relevant when BMW sells its products in the markets that actually care about them: US, Canada, China, a few other Asian countries, Middle East, maybe some other places I can't remember. There, all the bureaucracy is built around annual revisions, so what BMW does is just takes the version of the car that will be in effect when the new MY for that model should start, and that's what is sold throughout the year. And sometimes that means delaying the product because if production starts at one of the three available revision dates in the calendar year, but the model year is at a different one of those three dates, it may be easier to wait and not release a new model only to make revisions to it (with all the required paperwork and whatever else NHTSA wants) 4 months later.
Cars don't have model years in Europe?
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      08-24-2020, 08:16 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Not sure how this will playout or the take rates... the awd will always be faster but the rwd more pure? And what if the awd drift as well if not better? That only leaves the weight penalty... will one be for drag racing and one for sliding? I dunno...
Not necessarily. AWD is faster off the line but slower from a roll. Looking at recent 992 C2S vs C4S acceleration times shows exactly that (don't ask why I am looking at 992 stats... )
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      08-24-2020, 08:18 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Not necessarily. AWD is faster off the line but slower from a roll. Looking at recent 992 C2S vs C4S acceleration times shows exactly that (don't ask why I am looking at 992 stats... )
Rolling Resistance... but nothing a quick front wheel disconnect and a tune cant fix ... also no one would complain about a 992.
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      08-24-2020, 08:28 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The J-Man View Post
Cars don't have model years in Europe?
Australia doesn't have model years like the US. If the car was built in 2020 it's a 2020.
It's always confused me how a car built halfway through one year is somehow next year's model.
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      08-24-2020, 09:29 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The J-Man View Post
Cars don't have model years in Europe?
Not in the sense we understand them in the US. Obviously the production date matters both for resale and for understanding the exact configuration of the car, but this semi-arbitrary separation of a continuous output of car plants into buckets does not exist.

It may be useful here to compare this with the Tesla approach, which is the closest to the absence of model years you can get while still remaining compliant with all the federal requirements. Due to those requirements, Teslas sold in the US still have model years, but unless you know the exact date of production you can never tell exactly what's under the specific car's skin.
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      08-24-2020, 09:31 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdubf80 View Post
Ya I agree. So the real debut is 2021 when they review the real ///M3 and we can see what it's capable of.
He was being sarcastic.
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      08-24-2020, 11:56 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
M xDrive is not integrated. It's a hang on 1 speed transfer case which allows for on the fly RWD mode.

AMG MCT 4matic+ is internal integration and requires the vehicle to be stopped to engage Drift Mode.

8DT PDK4 is internal integration and configured in a manner in which it is not possible to decouple the front axle.
You are right, I was looking at parts diagrams earlier and didn’t see what I thought I remembered. Maybe the AMG is what I was thinking of but I believe the point stands: M didn’t want to spend the resources to get a new clutch to handle more torque in the manual cars, let alone develop M xDrive to physically fit with and calibrate it to work with a manual transmission.
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      08-25-2020, 12:11 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
Australia doesn't have model years like the US. If the car was built in 2020 it's a 2020.
It's always confused me how a car built halfway through one year is somehow next year's model.
Same as Tesla in the US...
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      08-25-2020, 01:10 AM   #61
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I think BMW should make a special track edition in manual, also the car should be offered with lower stance, wider tires and optional grill configuration.
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      08-25-2020, 04:28 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Rolling Resistance... but nothing a quick front wheel disconnect and a tune cant fix ... also no one would complain about a 992.
Extra weight, added rotating inertia and added drivetrain loss.

Even if the front wheels are decoupled from the transmission, they still need to spin the front drivetrain (drive shafts, CV joints, differential). In that 2WD mode, only the transmission of power to the front wheels is eliminated, all the other disadvantages remain.
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      08-25-2020, 05:49 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
I think BMW should make a special track edition in manual, also the car should be offered with lower stance, wider tires and optional grill configuration.



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      08-25-2020, 07:24 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Extra weight, added rotating inertia and added drivetrain loss.

Even if the front wheels are decoupled from the transmission, they still need to spin the front drivetrain (drive shafts, CV joints, differential). In that 2WD mode, only the transmission of power to the front wheels is eliminated, all the other disadvantages remain.
The only thing that would turn me off from the AWD version would be absurd amounts of weight... say it comes close to 3800 lbs... otherwise, a 100 lb difference wouldn't really matter to me at all...
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      08-25-2020, 07:48 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
The only thing that would turn me off from the AWD version would be absurd amounts of weight... say it comes close to 3800 lbs... otherwise, a 100 lb difference wouldn't really matter to me at all...
According to a forum member who is inclined to know, the AWD model will be just about 3900 lbs.

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...0#post26602910

That shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone who’s paid attention to the G22. The M440i xDrive weighs in at 3977lbs. Furthermore, given what we know about BMW, the advertised weights often fall on the optimistic side.

So it’s not a light car - neither in AWD nor RWD form. But, having the option to go with the latter will be appreciated by folks looking to at least keep the thing from ticking up past 4000 lbs.

(Note: if you’d like to discuss the vehicle weight more, please use the linked thread.)
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      08-25-2020, 11:20 AM   #66
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I am surprised there is no Xdrive/6MT option even with less HP. Was it too difficult to engineer, too expensive to produce, no business case...can you explain why there is no Xdrive/6MT? Thanks.
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