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      03-03-2021, 12:58 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
If it’s like the E60 that’s just about perfect for a dual purpose car for driver and family. Absolutely loved how my 535i E60 LCI ZCP handled on the street. Like a more planted E90 with much better components and tuning. Everytime I got an E90 335i as a loaner I just wanted the E60 back ASAP. I preferred it over the E39 as well. When I drove it out of the crummy old euro delivery location I knew after 5min that I loved that car. It’s my wife’s favorite BMW of all we owned.
Basically, imagine an E60 with modern electronics, two decades of technical development, and what I expect to be a pretty bulletproof powerplant while still retaining the option of a manual or coupling the auto with AWD (and the the same sort of controversial-for-its-time styling).

This car suddenly becomes a much better proposition the second people stop expecting it to be an M3 of old and instead consider it in the context of what has traditionally made M cars great. This is also why the M2 exists - to fill the space vacated by the 3 and 4.
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      03-03-2021, 01:00 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silber View Post
Basically, imagine an E60 with modern electronics, two decades of technical development, and what I expect to be a pretty bulletproof powerplant while still retaining the option of a manual or coupling the auto with AWD.

This car suddenly becomes a much better proposition the second people stop expecting it to be an M3 of old and instead consider it in the context of what has traditionally made M cars great. This is also why the M2 exists - to fill the space vacated by the 3 and 4.
Exactly.
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      03-03-2021, 01:04 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
And it’s usually not the weight itself that matters most, it’s how the car carry the weight. Just as with people
Given that much of the added weight went into stiffening the chassis I'm ok with it. I will be tracking this car, but of the 60k miles I'll be putting on it, 55k will be on the street.
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      03-03-2021, 01:07 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silber View Post
Basically, imagine an E60 with modern electronics, two decades of technical development, and what I expect to be a pretty bulletproof powerplant while still retaining the option of a manual or coupling the auto with AWD (and the the same sort of controversial-for-its-time styling).

This car suddenly becomes a much better proposition the second people stop expecting it to be an M3 of old and instead consider it in the context of what has traditionally made M cars great. This is also why the M2 exists - to fill the space vacated by the 3 and 4.
Exactly, and the increases in size are not even the M Division's fault. They take the base 3 series and the base 4 series and build a performance car with it. As the base 3 and 4 series increase in size, M has to go along for the ride.

I suspect, although I have no way to prove it, that they would love to make smaller cars. Hence, why they have all but confirmed an independent "M car" coming out NOT based on an existing car.
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      03-03-2021, 01:15 PM   #159
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Exactly, and the increases in size are not even the M Division's fault. They take the base 3 series and the base 4 series and build a performance car with it. As the base 3 and 4 series increase in size, M has to go along for the ride.

I suspect, although I have no way to prove it, that they would love to make smaller cars. Hence, why they have all but confirmed an independent "M car" coming out NOT based on an existing car.
Smaller yes but not small. Ever seen a 992 parked next to a 993? bespoken sports car chassis no longer result in remotely small cars
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      03-03-2021, 01:16 PM   #160
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Hence, why they have all but confirmed an independent "M car" coming out NOT based on an existing car.
There was that mid-engine looking 8 series mule running around some time ago.

I dunno, I think I'm also one of the few people that think that the i8 was fantastic, just marketed very very poorly and released at an awkward time. Consider that it took McLaren 7 years to release what is basically an i8 that gets to 60 a second faster, has the same range, and costs $100k more.

Is it a supercar? Nope! But it sure is a superGT in my mind - a fantastic blend of sports car and daily usable exotic.
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      03-03-2021, 01:18 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by Silber View Post
There was that mid-engine looking 8 series mule running around some time ago.

I dunno, I think I'm also one of the few people that think that the i8 was fantastic, just marketed very very poorly and released at an awkward time. Consider that it took McLaren 7 years to release what is basically an i8 that gets to 60 a second faster, has the same range, and costs $100k more.

Is it a supercar? Nope! But it sure is a superGT in my mind - a fantastic blend of sports car and daily usable exotic.
It looks great except a too soft front end. But with a 3 cylinder in that exotic chassis at that time it was dead on arrival.
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      03-03-2021, 01:26 PM   #162
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It looks great except a too soft front end. But with a 3 cylinder in that exotic chassis at that time it was dead on arrival.
It's entirely subjective but from the FRONT the i8 is a very ugly car.
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      03-03-2021, 01:54 PM   #163
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It's entirely subjective but from the FRONT the i8 is a very ugly car.
Even so, I guarantee that if it had been offered with an upgraded or even stock S85 it would have been surpassing the LFA in desirability, waiting list length and pricing power. Oh, the opportunity lost.
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      03-03-2021, 02:12 PM   #164
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Even so, I guarantee that if it had been offered with an upgraded or even stock S85 it would have been surpassing the LFA in desirability, waiting list length and pricing power. Oh, the opportunity lost.
Absolutely. First they build a sexy car that is half CF, then they saddle it with electric engines and batteries.
But put a friggin S65B44 in it and call it a day! Every time I see a Merc GT I'm reminded of this epic fuckup
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      03-03-2021, 02:28 PM   #165
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What are the additional cost for the Porsche? Are the maintenance cost more expensive? I heard Porsche cars are bulletproof. I don't know if this is true though.
Bullet proof, not true.

Our Cayenne with 65k on odo.
3x AWD transfer case @ $5k each.
1x fuel pump @ $1500
1x valve cover gasket @ $1800
1x central locking actuator @ $1500
2x brake jobs @ $3k each.
1x battery @ $1k if I recall right of the price.
Scheduled maintaince @ average $500 a year.
1x Cardan shaft coming up @ $2700

This is likely more total cost than all my 10+ BMWs combined at similar odo readings. Some of this were warranty repairs but bullet proof she ain't. Still love the car though. Love hurts.
911 are supposedly more reliable but around 2x the cost for every service and repair that is needed vs. the Cayenne.
WTH - $1k for a battery? That can't be right, surely?
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      03-03-2021, 02:43 PM   #166
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WTH - $1k for a battery? That can't be right, surely?
Yep, lithium battery for ~$300 tthat require removal of the driver’s seat, reset, recalibration of the electronics etc. all at Porsche labor cost plus the disposal cost of the old battery. Welcome to the P-car experience.
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      03-03-2021, 04:46 PM   #167
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What's the debate?..
I only asked for a photo. 🤷*♂️

What am I trying to garner?..
A side by side visual.🤷*♂️

I have no motivations or any intent to stir the pot.. chill.😏

I own an M2 cs and I am genuinely interested in on hand comparison since @silber is an owner of both and my dealer hasn't gotten one yet here in Portland.

Thanks.
+1 Nothing wrong with asking a photo. Forummers shoving their "weight" are unacceptable ... getting butthurt over something innocent. Asking for a photo showing the size difference is not committing a crime. This is a forum.
Agreed. This person asks for a photo and gets treated like garbage.
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      03-03-2021, 05:15 PM   #168
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Quote:
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And it’s usually not the weight itself that matters most, it’s how the car carry the weight. Just as with people
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      03-03-2021, 05:51 PM   #169
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Steering Feel

Hi Silber - thank you. I have an early M3 G80 on order. My only reservation is around the steering feel. As you my know, Car and Driver has been beating BMW up on steering in recent cars. I really don't want to get an early model before the reviews come in and subsequently read about "numb feel" from the steering. Thank you.
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      03-03-2021, 06:41 PM   #170
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      03-03-2021, 06:54 PM   #171
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Thanks for posting, interesting take on the MT offering put forth. This cant be good.
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      03-04-2021, 12:44 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
If it’s like the E60 that’s just about perfect for a dual purpose car for driver and family. Absolutely loved how my 535i E60 LCI ZCP handled on the street. Like a more planted E90 with much better components and tuning. Everytime I got an E90 335i as a loaner I just wanted the E60 back ASAP. I preferred it over the E39 as well. When I drove it out of the crummy old euro delivery location I knew after 5min that I loved that car. It’s my wife’s favorite BMW of all we owned.
Plus 1 on the E60 535. I had a 535 Msport and that car cornered flaaaat, and had great steering. Felt light on its feet because it WAS light...around 3700 lbs for a 5 series! Just a great overall car.
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      03-04-2021, 04:12 AM   #173
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      03-04-2021, 06:44 AM   #174
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I had the chance to test drive the new M4 last night. Was a Brooklyn Grey, non comp 6 spd. I was seriously impressed.

Even when the car was in comfort and economy settings - it was still impressive.
Steering was good, the turn in was fantastic. Even in 3rd gear at 20mph, the car pulled without having to down shift.

It did not have the CF buckets. I thought the seats that were in the car where good and supportive.

The ride quality was very good. Now I will say this - I daily my M6 in good weather in M2 mode and everything is set to sport plus. So I prefer a stiffer ride than some and where I live the roads are just bad! I did not think comfort was 'buick' like or too soft either.

Now I have owned 2 M6's, last gen M3 and M4 and M2. Not saying I am an expert but I have a lot of seat time on road and track in M cars.

Hope this is helpful. If you have questions please let me know.
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      03-04-2021, 07:06 AM   #175
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This is great info thanks for sharing. Couple questions:
- How is clutch pedal placement, dead pedal and spacing? Can you heel/toe easily?
- Did you have a chance to WOT shift the car? Wondering how it felt, especially the 2-3 shift
- You mention it felt more solid than the previous gen. How much more so? The previous BMW manuals I drove were quite rubbery. Would you say it was a huge improvement?
- How fast did it feel compared to your M2 CS?

I'm warming up to this car in black, interesting to hear pricing for the manual in Canadian dollars.
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      03-05-2021, 12:51 PM   #176
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- Did you have a chance to WOT shift the car? Wondering how it felt, especially the 2-3 shift.
Super curious about how long it takes to fully boost after shifting
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