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      02-24-2021, 04:47 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Maximus_850csi View Post
Thanks for the write up and all the photos.

Grill is one thing but looking at these photos the rear end lower corner protrusions were outliers. Not sure how I missed them with all the previous reveals, even in person!

I might keep the F80 YMB a bit longer for now...
Indeed, so many things wrong!
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      02-24-2021, 06:20 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
It's more a function of his ability to describe the driving dynamics. When I was a total novice, I would use words like "responsive steering." As I progressed to being the intermediate track driver I am now, having done maybe 25 track days in my life, I am able to speak in a sophisticated fashion, saying things like "the oversteer is predictable in a way that instill confidence while cornering" while still not knowing what I am talking about.
Excellent!!! LMAO when I read this. A few years Autocrossing, driving quickly around track days (10 -12), and being ridiculous in the dirt.... A great vocabulary but no driving engineer.

Counting the days down until the PB G80 is in my hands.... )
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      02-24-2021, 08:17 AM   #47
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I'm not afraid of the weight increase, I'm more concerned that the wider tires and increased wheelbase might have compromised some of that "fun factor" in favor of better overall performance. It will be more stable on the street and faster on the track, but just as much fun?
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      02-24-2021, 10:45 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
...It has been that way since AT LEAST the F8X.


.....at least if you listen to Bimmerpost and auto journalists.
"M3 hasn't been fun to drive since the E30."
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      02-24-2021, 11:51 AM   #49
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Thanks for writing this up. This car sounds about as I expected...wildly capably but the M2C remains the "driver's choice."
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      02-24-2021, 12:01 PM   #50
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I think "mini M5" is going to be used a lot in some upcoming driving reviews once we get them, especially with the xdrive versions.
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      02-24-2021, 03:19 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
...It has been that way since AT LEAST the F8X.


.....at least if you listen to Bimmerpost and auto journalists.
"M3 hasn't been fun to drive since the E30."
That one gets repeated ad nauseiem. Lol! Every M3 I've owned has been fun to drive.
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      02-24-2021, 03:33 PM   #52
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I think "mini M5" is going to be used a lot in some upcoming driving reviews once we get them, especially with the xdrive versions.
Doubt it. The M5 is a horrible car to track. I had the "pleasure" of doing 40 laps at monticello in it. It's a blast....but you wish it was smaller the entire time.
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      02-24-2021, 03:52 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
Doubt it. The M5 is a horrible car to track. I had the "pleasure" of doing 40 laps at monticello in it. It's a blast....but you wish it was smaller the entire time.
I've always seen the M5 as someone who has too much money and wanted a comfortable M car, wanted the M badge, and wanted a really fast sedan.

I almost never hear people go "OMG It's an M5!" or "I really want an M5". I mostly hear this about M3 from where I come from.
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      02-24-2021, 04:08 PM   #54
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcali86 View Post
I think "mini M5" is going to be used a lot in some upcoming driving reviews once we get them, especially with the xdrive versions.
Doubt it. The M5 is a horrible car to track. I had the "pleasure" of doing 40 laps at monticello in it. It's a blast....but you wish it was smaller the entire time.
I mean driving reviews, not track reviews, the xdrive is going to get a lot of people who want a fast comfortable sedan, without the size and price of the M5, who have no interest in tracking the car.
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      02-24-2021, 06:06 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcali86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcali86 View Post
I think "mini M5" is going to be used a lot in some upcoming driving reviews once we get them, especially with the xdrive versions.
Doubt it. The M5 is a horrible car to track. I had the "pleasure" of doing 40 laps at monticello in it. It's a blast....but you wish it was smaller the entire time.
I mean driving reviews, not track reviews, the xdrive is going to get a lot of people who want a fast comfortable sedan, without the size and price of the M5, who have no interest in tracking the car.
....and the group who've been beckoning for an AWD M car for 20 years.
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      02-24-2021, 06:26 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcali86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcali86 View Post
I think "mini M5" is going to be used a lot in some upcoming driving reviews once we get them, especially with the xdrive versions.
Doubt it. The M5 is a horrible car to track. I had the "pleasure" of doing 40 laps at monticello in it. It's a blast....but you wish it was smaller the entire time.
I mean driving reviews, not track reviews, the xdrive is going to get a lot of people who want a fast comfortable sedan, without the size and price of the M5, who have no interest in tracking the car.
....and the group who've been beckoning for an AWD M car for 20 years.
If the AWD was available now and only a few thousand more I would likely be going for it. I'm used to being able to mash the accelerator and not having to worry about grip. Given it's not available just yet I'm going 6MT. I feel like the non-AWD comp will end up being second cousin to the xdrive
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      02-24-2021, 08:50 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcali86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcali86 View Post
I think "mini M5" is going to be used a lot in some upcoming driving reviews once we get them, especially with the xdrive versions.
Doubt it. The M5 is a horrible car to track. I had the "pleasure" of doing 40 laps at monticello in it. It's a blast....but you wish it was smaller the entire time.
I mean driving reviews, not track reviews, the xdrive is going to get a lot of people who want a fast comfortable sedan, without the size and price of the M5, who have no interest in tracking the car.
I understood what you meant. I still don't think it's a comparison that will be made often.
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      02-24-2021, 09:25 PM   #58
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Thank you for the review.....and it re-confirms why my e92 is my last M3, and fhe F90 is on order. I didn't pick the M3 in the past because of money, but because if everything else. Well if you are going to get rid of the DCT, make her heavy and big while removing the visceral feel, might as well have an M5 if you can afford it.

Not upset at all as I knew this was going to be the case.

Cheers,
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      02-24-2021, 10:19 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
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Originally Posted by Jcali86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcali86 View Post
I think "mini M5" is going to be used a lot in some upcoming driving reviews once we get them, especially with the xdrive versions.
Doubt it. The M5 is a horrible car to track. I had the "pleasure" of doing 40 laps at monticello in it. It's a blast....but you wish it was smaller the entire time.
I mean driving reviews, not track reviews, the xdrive is going to get a lot of people who want a fast comfortable sedan, without the size and price of the M5, who have no interest in tracking the car.
I understood what you meant. I still don't think it's a comparison that will be made often.
Ah fair enough, we're not too much further off them, it's felt like an age, we've had a vaccine both made and distributed since they revealed the car to the driving reviews
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      02-25-2021, 03:04 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Thanks for posting feedback.

Can you provide some traction control association to the improved rear grip comment, as in, what mode you were in? And is this in relation to DSC off in F8X on track?

As far as front axle, superior turn in characteristics? Is the car more sharp on turn in, or can you feel the added weight there?

Or are you talking more mid-corner/roadholding type of grip?
I was in the most extreme Engine Sport Plus, Suspension Sport Plus, Steering Sport and Brake Sport mode during the session, MDM for traction as instructor won't allow us to turn if completely off. Turn in is almost the same as F8x but without the rear axle dancing around. The most comparable feeling is when you exit the corner you can confidently put your foot all the way to the floor. I would say it's more like mid-corner type of grip.
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      02-25-2021, 03:07 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
Nice review, thanks. Could use some more details on handling. Understeer? Oversteer?
Definitely still slightly understeer design from factory
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      02-25-2021, 03:12 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
Thanks OP! This is about what we expected I think. What is your level of experience as a driver, just for our further understanding?

Also, if the E92 was a 10 in steering, I would rate my first base F80 a 2 and my CS an 8.5
I wouldn't call my self as a professional hard core driver, just an typical BMW owner with occasional track and club events experience every year, I do spend a lot of time on simulator though.
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      02-25-2021, 05:41 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N1rve View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
Doubt it. The M5 is a horrible car to track. I had the "pleasure" of doing 40 laps at monticello in it. It's a blast....but you wish it was smaller the entire time.
I've always seen the M5 as someone who has too much money and wanted a comfortable M car, wanted the M badge, and wanted a really fast sedan.

I almost never hear people go "OMG It's an M5!" or "I really want an M5". I mostly hear this about M3 from where I come from.
Here is one for you, I really want an M5. I cannot wait to get the 2021 M5C I ordered. I will not go near a race track in the car, but I am sure The car's performance abilities, comforts and amenities will surpass my wants and needs. Never considered a M3 or M4 as an adult.
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      02-25-2021, 05:47 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcali86 View Post
I think "mini M5" is going to be used a lot in some upcoming driving reviews once we get them, especially with the xdrive versions.
I agree. Same transmission and AWD system, and sounds like M3 has significantly reduced NVH. Main difference is 5in wheelbase, few hundred pounds, and 2 cylinders.

Kind of like the difference between a 740i and 750Li.

But maybe people will find a very distinct character. We'll find out soon once we get the reviews.
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      02-25-2021, 07:57 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by zenohua View Post
I was in the most extreme Engine Sport Plus, Suspension Sport Plus, Steering Sport and Brake Sport mode during the session, MDM for traction as instructor won't allow us to turn if completely off. Turn in is almost the same as F8x but without the rear axle dancing around. The most comparable feeling is when you exit the corner you can confidently put your foot all the way to the floor. I would say it's more like mid-corner type of grip.
Wonder where MDM defaults in the 10 stage traction system. Sounds like they made good progress in MDM calibration/rear traction.
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      02-25-2021, 09:27 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N1rve View Post
I've always seen the M5 as someone who has too much money and wanted a comfortable M car, wanted the M badge, and wanted a really fast sedan.

I almost never hear people go "OMG It's an M5!" or "I really want an M5". I mostly hear this about M3 from where I come from.
By too much money, do you mean more than you have? The same thing could be said of the M3/4 or any BMW for that matter.

The M5 has been a different design ethos since its inception. From the beginning there has been no exterior difference from a standard 5 series. This is to allow it to fly under the radar so that an executive or sales professional can drive an incredibly capable car without drawing a lot of attention.

The M3 started as a homologation special without any regard for daily driving and had fender flares and improved aerodynamics specifically because they could not change any bodywork for the race series. It also used a 4 cylinder motor based on their F1 block because it was stiffer than the 6 cylinder and could handle a 10K rpm redline in race trim. Again they did this because they had to use the stock engine block in the race cars. The requirement was that they had to sell 5,000 road cars to qualify, which BTW was incredibly difficult and they sat for 12 to 18 months on dealer lots.

All that being said, there are a lot of people that aspire to own an M5, they are just not the age that jump up and down about it. Also the current M5 is much closer to the original intention compared to the M3 which has gone from a race car on the street to a fast comfortable street car.
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